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Clinton's Character

10 May 2007 04:23 pm

Of my suggestion that it's a little convenient for liberals to play the character card in the case of Rudy Giuliani when they tended to dismiss it where Bill Clinton was concerned, Matt writes:

But look, here, by the time the extent of Bill Clinton marital issues came to light in 1998, the man had been President of the United States for more than a few years, so it was hardly necessary to go searching around for hints and clues as to whether or not one would approve of his conduct in office. Indeed, my sense is that conservatives mostly regarded Clinton's misconduct in this regard as a kind of synecdoche (or maybe metonymy -- sorry, Mr. Glassman!) for an failed presidency. Most Americans, by contrast, viewed Clinton's presidency as reasonably successful and his conduct vis-a-vis his wife, children, and Monica Lewinsky therefore not-especially-relevant to their judgments.

Um ... the extent of Bill Clinton's marital issues only came to light in 1998? My sense is that the only people who were all that surprised by the Monica Lewinsky scandal were Clintonista liberals who'd managed to convince themselves that everything we knew about Clinton's years as an Arkansas hound dog had been invented by David Brock. Everyone else knew who Clinton was in 1992, and definitely knew by the time 1996 rolled around, and both times Democrats dismissed the character argument as irrelevant, and adopted the European principle that private lives shouldn't matter in politics - precisely the principle that Emily Bazelon wants to throw overboard where Rudy is concerned.

Now as I said, I'm by no means convinced that the GOP was right that Clinton's character should have disqualified him from the Presidency, and I'm certainly not convinced that Bazelon is right about Rudy now; it seems like too complicated a puzzle to admit to definite answers. You could argue, for instance, that Clinton's character shouldn't have mattered to his job performance, and the fact that it did is all the Republicans' fault, since they took their argument about Clinton's peccadiloes damaging his effectiveness as President and made it a self-fulfilling prophecy. Myself, I incline toward John Derbyshire's recent take on the matter:

Clinton’s greatest sin — this has been said before, but not often enough — was not resigning when the scandals began to occupy large parts of his time and energy. That was the sin of pride; and the key question is whether that aspect of the man’s personality is connected with his philandering. I suspect that it is: The pride of surviving the assaults of one’s enemies, even at heavy cost to the public duties one is supposed to be performing, seems to me not far removed psychologically from the pride of having one’s way with pretty women, even at heavy cost to one’s own marriage. I don’t know how I could prove this, though, and so I leave this as an open question.

Or put another way: A philandering President can be a good President, and the country might have been better off had Clinton occupied the Oval Office in an era when his sexual dalliances would have been swept under the rug. But occupying it when he did, in an era of sexual harassment lawsuits, a prurient media, and an opposition desperate to bring him down, he needed to be willing to resign if caught abusing his power in the way he did - and his unwillingness to do so was a greater flaw than the original lechery, though perhaps, as Derb says, the two went hand in hand.

Sometimes I like to imagine that had Clinton resigned, we would have had six years of President Gore, followed by the election of Jeb Bush - the right Bush - in '04 by a nation tired of Democrat rule and ready for a smart Republican in the White House. But that's what we call wishful thinking.

Comments (30)

Everyone else knew who Clinton was...

Yep: Manley Pointer.

The trouble with hypocrisy arguments is that they go both ways. If Democratic partisans who opposed impeachment are hypocritical for harping on Giuliani's private morality now, then Republicans who supported impeachment are hypocritical for not caring now. It just shows that partisans will do and say anything if they think it helps their team, which is something we already knew.

The other odd thing about Derbyshire's point is that you would think it would be Democrats who would be making it. An incumbent President Gore would almost certainly have beaten Bush in 2000.

Because I had done a lot of business in Arkansas in 1991-92, where Gov. Bill Clinton's personal predilections were a popular topic for conversation, on December 7, 1992, I predicted that President-Elect Clinton would run into a Presidency-threatening scanal over sexual harassment of a state employee (who turned out to be Paula Jones) as uncovered by an investigative reporter (who turned out to be David Brock).

As I wrote in 1992:

"I know of no evidence whatsoever that Clinton has ever made "unwanted sexual advances to women who worked for him or with him." Yet, if I was an investigative reporter wishing to make a name for myself as the Woodward/Bernstein of the 90's, I'd be highly intrigued by these facts: Governor Clinton has for many years presided over thousands of female state employees. By his own testimony, he has not always paid strict attention to his marriage vows. Finally, he is widely reputed to be a man like any other man, only more so.

"On the other hand, Mr. Clinton is younger and more Kennedyesque than the hapless Mr. Packwood, so a higher proportion of any propositions he might have made would have ultimately proven to be "wanted," thus letting him off the hook, according to the fascinating logic of current harassment theory. Yet, not even Warren Beatty has a career batting average of 1.000. So, all in all, it seems likely that some enterprising reporter is going to think it worth his while to go Pulitzer hunting among the secretarial pools and law offices of Little Rock. I'm sure they've been raked over before by journalists, but they were looking for the wrong kind of woman. Far more scandalous in today's environment would be the story of the woman who didn't commit adultery with Bill Clinton.

"Most likely, the reporter won't find anybody who'll say anything. Quite possibly, there is nothing to be said. But if there is, at any moment over the next four years a vast brouhaha may erupt. While initially amusing to contemplate, the thought of a Watergate-like paralysis of the executive branch, followed by an Al Gore Presidency and a retributive Democratic attack on every Republican who has ever winked at a pretty girl, is not.

"If Mr. Clinton has any secret worries on this score, he should act now. A vague confession and apology would cause a short flurry of tsk-tsking, but the ultimate loser would not be the President but the expansive definition of sexual harassment."

http://www.isteve.com/clinthar.htm

you're right ross. why wasn't that piece published in daily kos instead of slate? i have no problem with rank partisanship, but it would the appropriate venues.

Sure, a philandering president can be a good president, but he has to have some element of character he's not willing to compromise. The problem will be estimating to what degree one can trust that fellows' fidelities to other things that are important publicly if he shows himself capable of betraying them privately? Clinton's lack of private morality seemed of a solipsistic piece with his public morality, and the vulgarity of both was a revolting spectacle.

GWBush, the person you and Derbyshire and your comrades helped elect, twice, is clearly much more dishonest than President Clinton, considering the gravity and consequences of their respective lies. But I have yet to see any Republicans calling for Bush's resignation. (Of course, maybe, even to the most gullible of conservatives, President Cheney would be too much to bear.)
Jeb is no doubt smarter than W (who isn't?), but he's every bit as slimy.

"resigning when the scandals began to occupy large parts of his time and energy"

Would that this was par for the course among commanders in chief.

"this were?"

An incumbent President Gore would almost certainly have beaten Bush in 2000.

Again, probably wishful thinking here. Of course it's possible, but don't forget that the economy was on a serious slide in 2000 and it wouldn't have been too hard to pin it on Gore if that was the extent of his economic record.

My problem with Bill Clinton is that he took advantage of a female employee(s) over which he had power. Men are not afforded that luxury in this society and nor should they be. I still reel at the arrogance of him in this. And I'm still saddened from the lack of response by feminist groups at that time. Bill Clinton as its champion oddly oversaw the demise of the feminist movement.

...in an era of sexual harassment lawsuits...

An era that he brought on with his own pen, when he signed the law under which he was later sued by Paula Jones, and then arrogantly demanded that he not be subject to it. I'd call it poetic justice.

...then Republicans who supported impeachment are hypocritical for not caring now.

I don't know any Republicans who supported impeachment because Clinton was unfaithful to his wife, or because of his "private morality." It was for obstruction of justice, perjury, witness intimidation, subornation of perjury, etc. The articles of impeachment are available on line, if you've forgotten why he was impeached.

You high-mindedly disdain the hypocrisy of Matt and of liberals on this question, so I look forward to the post in which you make the principled and moral case against Rudy's "character issues." Doubtless you are making haste to compose that very post even as I write. Obviously it had to wait while you composed the more important sneer at Matt et al, but now that you've dispatched that matter, y're surely hard at work on yr condemnation of Giuliani.

I can't wait.

It's fun to think about alternative histories because of our yearning to believe that things could have been better. I think this activity started in the late Sixties when people were saying that JFK's death was a double tragedy because, unlike LBJ, he would have realized that Vietnam was a lost cause and cut our losses. Dream on. We forget that 9/11 really did change everything. President Gore (and please, he wouldn't have stopped it from happening either) would have been trapped by his and his party's past muscular statements about Saddam Hussein. A Republican Congress would watch him carefully for any signs of weakness, so we would likely be in the same spot we are in today....except that we wouldn't feel so bad because the mainstream media wouldn't be so unremittingly hostile to our efforts.

I realize this marks me as a bit old fashioned, but it seems to me that proof positive that somebody holds all oaths in contempt, whether oaths of marital fidelity, or oaths to speak only the truth in court, ought logically to disqualify one from holding an office which requires an oath to assume.

But Rand is right: The issue in impeachment wasn't Clinton's marital infidelity, but instead the criminal conspiracy to obstruct justice he engaged in concerning it. And, of course, the way this almost successful obstruction of justice raised serious questions about earlier scandals which were never quite proven.

jeb bush is only the "right" bush to you because he does NOT occupy the white house. We don't know how he would (have)act(ed). He just might have promoted a war with Iraq just like his brother.

quit putting your private fantasies on 1600 Penn Ave and deal with reality already.

The complaints about Giuliani's character go to his manner of governance-- his autocratic, nasty, personal, headline-craving style. His announcement of his divorce at a press conference before discussing it with his then-wife is often listed as one of these concerns.

The concerns over Clinton's causing pain in his marriage were very different.

I did, though, come to buy into the GOP view that "character matters"; that fact, along with concerns over the budget, is why I voted for Gore in 2000.

"Republicans who supported impeachment are hypocritical for not caring now"

Pithlord, I see several differences between the moral issues of Clinton and Giuliani, but the defining differences are denial, obfucsation and cover-up.

I think it is incorrect to say that Republicans (and especially social conservatives) don't care about Rudy's personal problems, but more accurate to say that the comparatively honest way in which he has addressed these shortcommings makes them more inclined to forgive. As Derb said, it wasn't the Lewenski matter itself that was Clinton's greatest failure, but his arrogance that by lying to the American public and the courts that he could get away with it. Should Guiliani be reveaned in a similar circumstance I think you'd find the Republican electorate's support evaporate quickly.

Bill Clinton was a globalist, and so is Hillary


As a Blue Dog, I could never vote for any Clinton

http://www.bluedogdemocrats.us/

America First!

Steve Y says: "President Gore (and please, he wouldn't have stopped it from happening either) would have been trapped by his and his party's past muscular statements about Saddam Hussein. A Republican Congress would watch him carefully for any signs of weakness, so we would likely be in the same spot we are in today..."

Perhaps, but do you really believe President Gore would have executed the war as incompetently as Bush, Cheney, etc.? Do you believe Gore wouldn't have listened to Gen. Shinseki? Wouldn't have planned better for the occupation, and sent competent people rather than hacks to run it?

I think Guliani is guilty of an arrogance no different in principle, (Though lying under oath is, of course, legally different.) if he actually expects a significant number of people to believe his all his self-serving claims about being a born again federalist who will appoint originalists to the bench, and respect the 2nd amendment, to name but a few of his utterly implausible changes of heart.

Rudy is running on name recognition, and the fact that most of the rest of the field is equally repulsive, putting some of these issues out of play for the moment. If a significant candidate (Fred Thompson, perhaps?) enters the race, without Rudy's handicaps, THEN we'll learn how much they really matter to Republicans.

But occupying it when he did, in an era of sexual harassment lawsuits, a prurient media, and an opposition desperate to bring him down, he needed to be willing to resign if caught abusing his power in the way he did ...
Let's not forget the fact that President Clinton promoted himself as, and was seen by others, as a champion of anti-sexual harassment legislation. To be engaging in a sexual relationship with an employee/intern was enough to render him an hyprocritcal opportunist.


Not that that made a difference to the feminists, who continued to back him despite it all.

It seems to me that the complaints about hypocrisy aren't exactly parallel. I mean, the Democrats *won* the argument, didn't they? Clinton served two full terms, didn't he? Why can't Republicans say that they're now conceding the wisdom of the Democrats?

Hypocrisy arguments are always exactly parallel. A few people have tried to make arguments distinguishing Giuliani's behaviour from Clinton's. Brett Bellmore wasn't even able to convince himself, so I feel safe in admitting I don't find the points of distinction particularly compelling.

But distinguishing the two cases, however partisan in motivation, is precisely not a hypocrisy argument. A hypocrisy argument turns on saying that the situations are similar, but that the opposing partisans are acting differently. No doubt true, but then true for everybody.

Brett Bellmore didn't even TRY to convince himself. I purely loath Guliani.

But, of course, there are a couple of relevant differences. Clinton was having affairs with women directly under him in a chain of command, which is a sort of statutory sexual harrasment even if welcome, and lied about it under oath in court. As far as I know, (Though I wouldn't be particularly suprised to find out otherwise.) the same is not true of Guliani.

This makes Clinton's conduct marginally worse than Guliani's; Guliani showed bad character, Clinton bad character AND criminality. Neither was/is fit to be President. Clinton was fit to wear stripes in a small room, too.

Alan, your point about a Gore administration not ignoring advice from the military and staffing the reconstruction with incompetent, 25-year-old hacks is a good one, and there is an important correllary:

The GOP had a reputation for being serious and sober about national security. If that was not just smoke and mirrors, and there was actually something to it, wouldn't a GOP Congress and the GOP media have done a much better job than the cowed Democrats and substance-averse mainstream media in checking an incompetently waged war?

Instead, the GOP media and Congress insisted until a few weeks ago that everything is Iraq is awesome, it's just like Indiana/Philadelphia, and that Bush and Rumsfeld are like a Pericles-Eisenhower dream team. Dunno why they were so willing to descend into hackery; I sure hope the Dems don't do the same.

Anyway, I thought, back then, that there was something to the stereotype that the GOP took national security seriously. In fact, I thought that the silver lining in Bush's '00 win was that the military would be restructured to avoid the Clinton-era drag on the National Guard and Reserves.

In retrospect, I may have been wrong about GOP seriousness.

The funny thing is, Guilianni only seems to be "conservative" on 2 issues - taxes and Iraq. Otherwise, he is at least as far to the left as Bill Clinton, if not farther.

I've never understood why the left hates Guilianni. He is with the left on most issues.

As a conservative, I hope he does not win the GOP primary - and his personal issues are not even the reason, it is his policy positions, but his personal issues do not make me very happy either - and I agree that he is very similar to Clinton in regards to those issues.

If he wins the primary, I will have to look very hard at whether he is the better choice than whoever the dems put up. In my mind, it is unfortunate that the dems have moved so far to the left, and all their candidates are moving so far to the left. If there was a decent mainstream Dem, I could vote for him/her in a minute over Guilianni. As it is, I would likely hold my nose and vote for Guilianni.

I'll be surprised if Guilianni's support in the primary does not drop once the republican base starts actually paying attention.

What strikes me as telling about the whole view of this type of thing is that for many--particularly those in the GOP currently--they give a pass to those who are in the party and virtually crucify those outside of it. For example, Newt Gingrich is talking about possibly running for President--something that I gather at least some GOP'ers would support. This is the same man who admitted recently that while he was pushing for Clinton's impeachment for lying about sexual affairs, Gingrich was doing exactly the same thing. I've seen Republicans try to spin out of this by saying "Yes, but he wasn't President' to which I reply "What's the difference? After all, you told us repeatedly that anyone occupying the Oval Office must be of superior moral fibre"--which pretty much kills any further argument from them on this point. Hopefully if nothing else this will finally put a stop to the whole thing about the appearance of propriety and morality equaling same. Whether the pol has (D) or (R) after their name is of no consequence nor should it be. Dishonest or unethical behaviour should be unacceptable to ALL voters, regardless of the pols party affiliation. Anything less is simply hypocrisy. Even the most blinded GOP operative has to acknowledge that this is indeed correct.

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