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Where Are The Realists?

16 May 2007 05:42 pm

I think Andrew is getting a little too excited by the Ron Paul phenomenon. The idea that Paul should be removed from the debates is ludicrous, obviously - so much for that vaunted Republican intellectual diversity! But while it's interesting to have Paul's hard isolationism represented in the conversation, his views don't come close to representing a viable present-day alternative to Bush-style crusading interventionism; he's a curiosity rather than a serious corrective. Indeed, the attention that Paul's getting isn't, pace Andrew, a sign of the hidden strength of conservative opposition to Bush's Iraq policy - it's a sign of its weakness, and the vacuum that's opened in what used to be the space between neoconservative interventionism and Paul-style isolationism. Nor are the Hugh Hewitts going after Paul because they're "afraid" of him, as Andrew would have it; they're going after him because he's a poor spokesman for opposition to the Iraq War - sure, it's intellectually consistent to oppose the 2003 invasion and the first Gulf War and the creation of NATO, but it's not a plausible position for the contemporary GOP to take - and because they can use his tendency to stray into deep right field as a way to discredit any criticism of the Bush Administration.

The vacuum that Paul currently occupies is supposed to be filled by an internationally-minded realism. Indeed, it's precisely the coexistence of realism and idealism in Republican foreign policy, the fruitful tension between the two strains of thought, that has long made the GOP the party to be trusted in international relations - because the idealists elevate the realists, and the realists keep the idealists grounded. When the pendulum swings too far in one direction or another, this tension has usually produced a correction, of the kind that, say, the original neocons and then Reagan provided to the cynical machtpolitik of Kissinger. But there's no sign of a realist corrective in the current GOP field: There were ten candidates on that stage besides Ron Paul yesterday night, and not one of them was willing to call the Iraq War a mistake, which seems to me like the place that a serious realist critique of his Presidency's foreign policy needs to begin.

It's a sorry, sorry sign for Republican foreign-policy realism that the closest thing to a champion it has on the national stage is Chuck Hagel - a self-promoting buffoon, so far as I can tell, and a politician whose grasp of current foreign-policy debates leaves much to be desired.

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Comments (16)

Many have dubbed 9/11 the death knell of realism, and such criticisms are not without their merits. While I can foresee a biting realist critique of the war, most of the people who have the heft and credentials to make them are tarnished by their involvement in some of the very policies that, to give Ron Paul credit he probably doesn't deserve, helped to create the conditions that we see in the region now. Certainly Baker and Scowcroft are tarnished by what popular perception deems the failure to take out Saddam when several hundred thousand troops on the ground and the world seemingly in our corner, particularly in light of the atrocities that followed (and, it should be pointed out, the presence of American troops on Saudi soil that has constituted a flashpoint for many extremists). To add insult to injury, George H.W. Bush's urging of restraint in the Ukraine was back in the news again with the so-called Orange Revolution, which occurred at roughly the same time as the Baker-Hamilton Commission was newsworthy. On one hand we may pine for a modern day Kissinger but on the other hand we are regularly confronted with the long term ramifications of the realist foreign policies of yore.

Well, there is always tremendous pressure not to criticize a sitting President in your own party. Chuck Hagel's pretty much it. Maybe John Warner, and he's just doing it in private. Obviously if you had a more internationalist President, you'd still have some carping from the backbenchers, but as long as there was measurable success most of the GOP would go along.

But Anonymous conservative is certainly on to something ... certainly some fraction of the GOP thinks that it was a mistake not to take out Saddam in Gulf War I.

In addition, enough of the realist foreign policy elite -- Tony Lake, Brent Scowcroft, military leaders like Anthony Zinni -- have distanced themselves from the Republican party entirely. And so you are left with people who only believe in the value of hard power, and that the proper response to the failure of hard power to achieve your goals is ... to apply more hard power, without recognizing the limits of that approach.

I still don't see how it is realistic to leave Saddam in power in 2003, with the sanctions regime ending. He would simply have continued to be a major destabilizing force in the middle east, and a major national security problem given his penchant for pursuing weapons of mass destruction (does anyone seriously doubt that he wouldn't have immediately embarked, or re-embarked, on a fullscale program for developing WMDs, including nukes, upon the demise of the sanctions regime?) and collaborating with terrorists when it suited him. He would have gained significant esteem for having stood up the the US & the UN security council, and the US would have been seriously weakened politically by letting him off the hook.

It's fair to say our planning and/or execution for the post-Saddam period were unrealistic, but that is a different consideration than claiming that it would have been more realistic to leave Saddam in power.

Ross's characterization of realists and idealists as mutually correcting strands of conservative foreign policy thought is stated too simply to reflect what I think often in fact happens, which is that they reinforce each other's hawkishness by providing multiple motives for it, while empirical factors mitigating against the use of force or of supporting wars by proxy are given short shrift.

On the other hand, they're not exactly full-throated representatives of idealist school, either. Nobody's running on anything like Bush's second inaugural "freedom agenda", and I get the sense that even the most bellicose with regard to Iran don't have anything more aggressive in mind than a cruise missile strike against their nuclear facilities (no small shakes, but a far cry from invading, occupying and democratizing the country, which would have been a pretty mainstream proposal in the intellectual climate of 2003).

The idea that "we're all neoconservatives now" has a kernel of truth. What Cyrus Vance and Jimmy Carter did for spineless naivete, 9/11 did for realism. We may get a quasi-isolationist and we may endure a brief reinvigoration of the "good intentions as foreign policy" (Dean seems the closest analogue now) but in the end the idea that regime type matters and that short term stability cannot run roughshod over human rights and over our long term fortunes have become pretty well embedded in the platforms of both parties, as has the necessity of having a strong deterrent (probably to include a larger military). No doubt there will be substantial differences on the implementation of such policy (the Democrats are by and large less cynical about the UN), but the underlying ideas are fairly similar.

Where are the realists?

Maybe the entire political system as a whole provides the necessary balance between realism and idealism.

"GOP the party to be trusted in international relations - because the idealists elevate the realists, and the realists keep the idealists grounded"

I'm thinking the Democratic Party also has realists and idealists who have grounded one another as well.

And... the most successful candidates converge - tip too far towards realism or idealism and you alienate voters who will dismiss you as either being too grounded or not grounded enough.

Thus - the mere system provides the righting mechanism for the balance - the Republican party keeps itself in check, and the Democratic party does likewise... and on top of that they both keep one another in check.

It's a self regulating system. I think.


The only candidates any real conservative should consider are Ron Paul, Tom Tancredo or Duncan Hunter.

Ron Paul's foreign policy, one of non-interventionism, is the authentic conservative position. And only non-interventionism is consistent with small-government conservatism.

Our greatest threat, though, is the third-world invasion of the U.S. As Jean Raspail said in Camp of the Saints, "the best conservative novel of all time," we can make a stand against the invading hordes, or we can watch our civilization crumble.

Unfortunately, many candidates support the invasion and are guilty of treason: Giuliani, McCain, Brownback, Huckabee, Thompson, etc.


Look around you - America is becoming a third-world wasteland.

Look around you - America is becoming a third-world wasteland.

It's probably not even worth engaging your nonsense, but what exactly is that supposed to mean?

I don't understand the rational argument for why 9/11 made stability in the Middle East less important. (I think I understand the emotional reaction that gave this belief its temporary vogue.) Once the Taliban was overthrown, Sunni radicals like al Qaeda did not control any Muslim country. But they have a significant base of support. Therefore, it is in the West's interest to promote stability -- at the expense of democracy, to the extent there is conflict.

Well, Pithlord, the thing is that the hijackers were mostly from Saudi Arabia. The argument goes, when we support tyranniacal, dysfunctional states, we increase resentment of ourselves, and we prevent any normal political expression of that resentment in those oppressive countries. Terrorism ensues.

It's not at all a bad argument, in my opinion.

Whatever its appeal, though, we live in an imperfect world. There's no easy answer or switch to flip.

One possible implication of that argument is that we should pick a bad dictator who's a former ally more or less at whim, and invade and occupy his country in order to make people love us more. That view, I think, is falling out of favor.

One possible implication of that argument is that we should pick a bad dictator who's a former ally more or less at whim, and invade and occupy his country in order to make people love us more. That view, I think, is falling out of favor.

Well, it would be, if that was an actual view held by anyone.

a. there's a difference between someone who we strategically supported in a particular circumstance from an "ally"

b. do you really think we picked Iraq on a whim? I mean, even the conspiracy theorists assume Bush had a reason for picking Iraq - they just think it's not the reason(s) he gave publicly.

c. we didn't exactly invade in order to make people love us more - that was considered a side benefit by some people. we did expect that having more political freedom would cause people to channel their energies more towards reforming their own governments, as opposed to hating America (and that it would produce less state-sponsored anti-American propaganda).

Of course, all of these positions taken by the US could have been wrong, but they're still different from your pithy, but incorrect, summary.

It depends on what you mean by "realism". To an extent the concept was tainted the moment it came up, because it was willfully reinterpreted as "anything the US does is justified, no matter what" -- which only differs from neo-imperialism (those people are not "conservatives") in the rhetoric used to defend it.

Although, Ross' point as far as it applies to Iraq does make sense. I find it amusing now to see neos on other blogs saying we need to stay there to counterbalance Iran -- which is what Saddam's use to us was there in the first place, and wouldn't have been an issue without the invasion.

"they're going after him because he's a poor spokesman for opposition to the Iraq War - sure, it's intellectually consistent to oppose the 2003 invasion and the first Gulf War and the creation of NATO, but it's not a plausible position for the contemporary GOP to take - and because they can use his tendency to stray into deep right field as a way to discredit any criticism of the Bush Administration."

Why is it not a plausible position? The mainstream media has focused on the realist like Hagel all along. Especially after the Iraqi Study Group report, but rightist non-interventionists (both libertarian and paleoconservative) have been vocally against the War from the begging. The international globalist would love the debate to be confined to only the neocons and the realists, but principled non-interventionist like Paul and his supporters are not going away. Non-interventionist have found our voice, and Hugh and the boys are whistling past the graveyard.

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