« Back To The Sandbox | Main | Spam and Comments »

What's The Matter With Scientology?

01 Aug 2007 12:21 pm

In an exceedingly odd piece, Mark Oppenheimer explains that Scientology can't be a dangerous cult because "everything of which Scientology is accused is an exaggerated form of what more 'normal' religions do." I suppose this is technically true - requiring that people pay large sums for spiritual enlightenment is, in some sense, an exaggerated version of tithing; coercion and blackmail are, in some sense, an exaggerated form of the social pressure that can keep people in a religious fold - but it doesn't seem like much of an answer to the accusations, since if they're true it's precisely the "exaggerations" that are the problem.

In-depth journalistic investigations of Scientology are relatively rare, for reasons that doubtless have nothing to do with the Church's taste for harassment and libel lawsuits, but if you read this Time Magazine piece, from the early 1990s, and come away convinced that what makes people uncomfortable about Scientology is how similar it is to Christianity and Judaism ("We need to hate Scientology," Oppenheimer writes, "lest we hate ourselves") ... well, I've got some stress tests I'd like to interest you in.

Comments (29)

I'd call them a cult. It's not rather their metaphysical beliefs are too weird or not that makes them a cult, but that they practice mind control/brainwashing techniques. Their are certainly branches of mainstream religions that practice this, too, and I consider them cults as well. How to spot a cult: they attempt to confuse and isolate new recruits, and often use fasting, odd diet, and/or sleep deprivation on them. And, no, I don't think fraternities count, not being religious, but it would be a valid argument.

If you're making a post about Scientology, you really are remiss to not mention the excellent website Operation Clambake (aka xenu.net), which chronicles the deceit of the Church of Scientology. You can really see the how rotten the Church of Scientology is in how far they go to try to silence their critics, and in how utterly focused they are on milking people for as much money as they can get.

P.S.: A far more interesting topic to address would be the people who call Mormonism a cult. I know people who were brought up in Texas and went to a Christian high school, and just had it drummed into them that Mormonism was a cult. I haven't mounted any sort of detailed investigation, but it seems to be an attitude held by at least a significant minority of highly religious Christian conservatives.

Mark Oppenheimer, let's face it, detests Christianity.

See, for instance, his praise of Christopher Hitchens for his brave and truthful bashing of Mother Theresa in "The Missionary Position."

He has a long record of bashing Christians.

(I posted this at Mark Shea's blog):

Good grief! That piece by Mark Oppenheimer has to be one of the most idiotic takes on Scientology I have ever read. I think why people revolt against Scientology is not because of its similarity with Catholicism, but because of its dissimilarity. They revolt because deep down, many people know faith and reason are supposed to go together, and one is not supposed to embrace a faith that contradicts reason. I mean, when your major prophet says that the problems in the world are because of an intergalactic space battle eons ago where Thetans were released all over the world, whether this is a true religion or not is not a close call.

Part of the problem is that as faith is divorced from reason there is no basis to criticize any faith. How can one criticize one faith when all faiths are just matters of subjective opinion or utility? It would be like someone who believes in the Easter Bunny criticizing a believer in Santa Claus.

We are all just supposed to get along with every faith in order to keep a "unity" based on mere politeness.
Brennan | Homepage | 08.01.07 - 7:27 pm | #

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think the whole "cult" thing is silly.

It serves no purpose, describes nothing. What it really boils down to is name-calling.

If you want to attack Scientology's coercive techniques, fine, be my guest. But do so without the crutch of silly labeling games.

Honestly, what possible constructive use is there in calling something a "cult" anyway?

At some point, the religious/cult distinction seems a bit light-handed with regard to how to deal with Scientology. This is organized crime, pure and simple. If the Catholic church engaged in these kinds of extortion and intimation techniques, they'd be brought up of RICO charges. And quite rightly so. Where the is the political will on this? What good was it to have conservatives running Congress if they couldn't put a syndicate like this out of business. Isn't there a US Attorney who could ... oh wait. Never mind.

Articles like this make me wonder how long it has been since I've seen a conservative say anything negative about Rev. Moon's Unification Church. But that couldn't possibly have anything to do with that church's ownership of the Washington Times, could it?

"See, for instance, his praise of Christopher Hitchens for his brave and truthful bashing of Mother Theresa in "The Missionary Position.""

Of course, if you guys could get around to actually saying what's wrong about the core accusations Hitchens makes in that book, that would be nice. Simply saying "oooo the media says she was a charitable saint beyond any reproach" is well, pretty much part of Hitchen's thesis.

On the subject of Scientology though: nothing more really needs to be said than the South Park episodes "Trapped in a Closet" and the Return of Chef episode in which Stan notes that, yes, some beliefs really ARE way way more ridiculous than others.

I tend to think that using "cult" as shorthand for "crazy, coercive, manipulative, and criminal pseudo-religion" is fair enough. Of course it incorporates some measure of personal judgement - but just because the term requires that doesn't mean it shouldn't be used. People understand that calling something a cult is based on the speaker's understanding of things. There are attempts to define cults objectively, but I don't think those do so well, because even with an "objective" definition there is still always going to be huge disagreement about the fact themselves between the people calling something a cult and the people defending the accused cult, and I think that most of the disagreements about whether X is a cult or not are about the truth or falsity of the accusations against X.

And anything that hurts Scientology's ability to brainwash more people is constructive. If enough people from enough perspectives all agree Scientology is a dangerous cult, it can help to reduce its power, by getting people who don't pay as much attention to understand that this isn't just some harmless little New Age belief, but something truly pernicious.

Also, I heartily endorse the South Park episodes mentioned above. One of the best weapons against Scientology is ridicule, and South Park does it damn well.

'Cult' isn't just an empty pejorative. There's lots of content to it -- there's lots of criteria that go into being a cult and it's very easy to find lots of decent overlapping lists of the key factors.

And Scientology passes all such tests with flying colors. Just take the time to read about it and it's obvious. If Scientology's not a cult, we might as well retire the word.

I mean, don't get me wrong, Christianity's a load of horseshit, but that neither here nor there.

"One of the best weapons against Scientology is ridicule, and South Park does it damn well."

Utter rubbish.

You might as well substitute words and say "one of the best remedies against religious superstition is ridicule."

Yeah, sure...

Atheists have been using the same logic against Christianity and religion in general for years now, and they have precious little success to show for it.

Ridicule simply puts the target religious group into siege mentality. The Scientologists can be expected to band more closely together and feel like they are being misrepresented and treated unfairly.

And let's face it, when the attack takes the form of a cartoon, it's not a hard conclusion to reach.

Incidentally, I also think you might as well say "one of the best weapons against truth is ridicule."

Personally, I think ridicule proves nothing, except that the person using it needs to grow up a bit. And I still think that the word "cult" has no further constructive use in intelligent debate.

If you take cult=wacky belief system, then it is just a pejorative, and objectively meaningless. If you define cult as using mind control techniques, then it has a definite meaning. Scientology and the Unification Church definitely qualify. LDS does not, as far as I can tell. And to address an earlier post, the Unification Church does not just own the Washington Post, but is a generous donor to many right wing causes and candidates.

And I still think that the word "cult" has no further constructive use in intelligent debate.

Well, Rathje, you can still think it if you want, but it'd be nice to see some substantiation.

Man, Oppenheimer is on to something.

Every time the Scientology recruits walked out of their compound and strolled around in their quasi-fascist uniforms* on Fort Harrison Avenue in Clearwater, I knew in my heart that I was creeped out by them because of how closely they resembled Christian parishioners!

And when I learned Lisa McPherson, a troubled girl, was taken into church custody and denied medical care in favor of Scientology "treatment" -- at the hands of a doctor who lived in my neighborhood, ack -- and subsequently died mysteriously, I couldn't help thinking, The Catholics, or maybe the Methodists, yeah, they would've done the same thing.

And when my home received advertisements in Florida for self-help or anger or stress control groups by front companies associated with Scientology, companies which in turn recommend their members to join the "church" to continue their (paid) treatment, I always said they were just like those sneaky Christers in Alcoholics Anonymous.

Ahem.

I'm a bit amused by apologists who look at Christianity's past misdeeds, then look at Scientology today, and say, hey, well, "paying for status in the church is OK" 'cause Catholics had the selling of indulgences, rejecting psychology and psychiatry** is fine because the Christians reject evolution, teaching people that our souls traveled from another part of the galaxy on Douglas DC-8 airliners should be and deaths and violence associated with Scientology are tolerable because some Christians burned witches and bombed abortion clinics.

Whether Scientology is a cult or not obscures the larger issue: we can't tu quoque the wrongness away, and there is wrongness in that "church."

* I'm not altogether certain but I think they stopped parading around in uniforms to avoid the brownshirt vibe they were giving the locals.

** Conveniently enough, psychiatry and psychology are the main tools we have to analyze cults and deprogram their members -- not that Scientology is a cult, oh no!

It is amazing the amount of misinformation that is out there regarding Scientology. The website that was listed here previously is hosted by an avowed enemy of scientology with a clearly nuerotic adgenda against this church (my church), filled with lies and half-truths.

Case in point is the MacPherson case: The church was fully exonerated by the courts of any wrong doing. In fact the person responsible for initially naming the church as a responsible party, the County Coroner, was criticized by the ruling court and later resigned in disgrace. Certain individuals and a doctor acted in a manner that was stricly against church policy at that time.

There is not one negative comment posted here that is close to being accurate.

It's how they treat people that's the scandal. They exploit people.

The Time magazine article that was listed earlier is not even close to being accurate. The authors of that article had a clealy anti-scientology adgenda when they wrote it as they had also published previous articles bashing the church.

Calling the e-meter lie detector is so far from the technical truth it is appalling. The meter uses the human as a circuit. The e-meter only reads the interruption of that circuit. By technical definition it is impossible to tell exactly what that interruption is -- only the participant knows, and he tells the auditor. If you want to know more go to a library and read a book by L Ron Hubbard.

That "Time" article was a slam job paid for by Eli Lilly, manufacturer of Prozac, at a time when Scientologists were making a big noise about how Prozac is harmful and causes suicides and homicides. Eli Lilly's financial future was riding on Prozac's success - so they slammed into Scientology in a national magazine with a "for sale" editorial policy.

It's not just me saying this - one of the Eli Lilly VP's (who now works for Bush's cabinet, God save us all!) bragged about this publicly in a Wall Street Journal interview. It's a matter of public record.

Sincerely,
Greg
Scientologist and proud of it
http://www.liveandgrow.org

Congratulations, this entry has now been found by both the anti-Scientology campaigners AND the active Scientology defenders. Let's get ready to rumble!

Also, I love the notion that Scientology's anti-psychiatry screeds have (or ever had) enough traction or public credibility to put a serious dent in the sales of a drug like Prozac. Were you paying attention to the coverage when Cruise started running his mouth about post-partum depression, and do you really think the reaction would have been different in the mid-90s?

I've actually never seen a real live scientologist on a commentboard or messageboard. This is a first!

I think ridicule is specially suited to Scientology because they are a fringe group to begin with, and just objectively, their "beliefs" just are far sillier than most. Ridicule doesn't work as well on mainstream religions because there isn't a critical mass of people who would do anything other than bunker up against it.

Meanwhile, the Catholic church is as far as I know STILL debating whether or not to declare moral the use of condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS BETWEEN MARRIED PARTNERS. To me, that seems not only silly, but way more dangerous of an ideology than Tom Cruise going off his meds and jumping on couches.

plunge: just what do you think a scientologist's "beliefs" are?

Nate: It took some time but here is an article from 2002 explaining the 'lagging sales of Prozac'. The full scientology message was finally being disseminated and heard:
http://money.cnn.com/2002/07/18/news/companies/lilly/index.htm

Well Mike, lets start with the hilariously goofy e-meter that you believe "reads the interruption." That's psudeoscience on the level of the timecube guy right off the bat.

Welcome foolish followers of the powerless Hubbard. The Dark Lord Xenu laughs at you from His throne of evil! My servants at Eli Lily are right now working on a new treatment for epilepsy that will deny many spiritual journeys. I will soon foil you e-meter technology, slaves. Obey me! Obey meeeeeeee!

Awww Mike and Greg,

You two just writing whatever comes to your mind doesn't make it true. The person who runs the xenu.net site doesn't hate scientology. He hates the evil actions taken by scientology. He is very fair in giveing any member of scientoloy a chance to give their side. Something no scienology site does for those who don't agree with them.

No one paid for the Time story and scientology did spend millions sueing Time. They lost as everything in the Time story was proven true. In fact the only one to pay for a story was scientology which did so to rebutt a USA Today story. Of course now they claim it was USA Today correcting its first story, just another scientology lie.

But you can see all this at xenu.net and xenutv.com
While they can lie and claim the owner of the site hates them, they can't defend the public and court records you can find there, or the video's of scientology. It makes for great tv and everyone should take a look at it.

tcuj oteumvfws nyqvedwr abdtgkjw scwl zthdmuipc uzdbox

Great comment, Ross Douthat. Oppenheimer should declare the obvious "touche'!!" but he's blind and cannot see, intentionally so.....

adult single personals

I challenge all on this site to pick up a copy of " The Way To Happiness" , read it and then see if there is one thing in that whole book that you disagree with. I believe you can go on Scientology .org and get it for free. I am really tired of people knocking my church when they haven't even read one book. I read the bible when I was growing up. I studied most of the great religions of the world. I read Edgar Cayce and books about re-incarnation. I practiced yoga and meditation. Then I studied Scientology. I wouldn't dream of knocking someone's religion or philosophy without reading the books myself. Newspapers brainwash and so do bigots. The last place I'd go to form an opinion would be the newspaper or someone with a grudge or just some plain idiot who has nothing better to do than hate. The Way To Happiess - read it and then we will have a discussion about those viewpoints.