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Huckabee the Extremist

10 Sep 2007 10:29 am

I'm actually somewhat sympathetic to Garance Franke-Ruta's suggestion that Mike Huckabee might be too far right on social issues to be a winning Presidential candidate, but I think this is a bit much:

I mean, just look at his agenda. Mr. Guitar-Rocker Folksy Nice Guy wants to: eliminate all contraception education in schools; use our tax dollars to fund ideological and ineffective abstinence education programs in those schools; and get rid of condom distribution in schools in favor of Bible distribution programs that have been overturned by the courts. He favors: a federal marriage amendment to the U.S. constitution; a human life amendment; the teaching of creationism to children; and the South Dakota law that banned all abortions and was so extreme the state's own highly traditionalist voters overturned it in a referendum.

... In short, Huckabee, the former Baptist minister and religious TV executive, is the candidate of exhausting and divisive social issues and the ongoing war by what Andrew Sullivan calls Christianists against the mainstream views of the majority of the American people. But, hey! As long as he can tell a good joke and strum a guitar, right?

Um, about "those mainstream views of the majority of the American people" ... Yes, it's true that Huckabee's abortion position and his opposition to sex ed in schools place him decidedly to the right of the public. (Although many Democrats are to the public's left where funding for abstinence education is concerned.) But as for the rest, well, more than half of John Kerry voters shared Huckabee's position on teaching evolution in public schools, and as of 2006 a slight majority supported the federal marriage amendment. I don't know how Americans feel about handing out Gideon Bibles in classrooms, but seventy percent or so reliably support returning prayer to public schools, which I assume was the issue that Huckabee was gesturing at in that comment.

Garance writes that she's "been racking my brain for an explanation as to why the national press has been so willing to accept his aw-shucks Mr. Nice Guy act without scrutiny." I suspect that if his candidacy ever gains significant traction - and particularly if he ever faces off against a Democrat - the media will happily fall in line to cast him as a religious extremist. But it's just possible that the press hasn't emphasized his comments on social issues because unlike figures like Rick Santorum and Sam Brownback, who have set themselves up as knights of the religious right and been portrayed that way in the press, he hasn't emphasized those issues all that much in his campaign; because creationism and sex ed and even gay marriage aren't terribly high on the list of voter priorities these days (and Huckabee's line that "I’m not planning on writing the curriculum for an eighth-grade science book ... I’m asking for the opportunity to be president of the United States" suggests that he wants to keep it that way); and because only abortion, out of the issues Garance lists, is likely to be a defining issue in the next Presidential term, and there Huckabee's position (i.e., favoring the appointment of Scalia-type judges) is indistinguishable from the rest of the GOP field.

In other words, by focusing on Huckabee's record as governor and his differences, rhetorically at least, from the rest of the field on domestic policy, you could argue that the press is actually showing a rare and healthy sense of perspective - treating him as an ordinary politician who happens to be a religious conservative, rather than a budding theocrat bent on making "war" against mainstream America.

Comments (31)

I can't discern any practical difference between him and the rest of the Republican field on the Iraq War either. Or any other issue for that matter, with the possible exception of his Fair Tax support. He seems to satisfy the same itch that Thompson does for a Republican electorate obsessed with salesmanship over substance. Personally, I don't see how it matters whether a candidate recycles Bush's 2000 or 2004 rhetoric, if, upon election, they're still planning to recycle the same policies.

"In short, Huckabee, the former Baptist minister and religious TV executive, is the candidate of exhausting and divisive social issues and the ongoing war by what Andrew Sullivan calls Christianists against the mainstream views of the majority of the American people."

Its standard fair for leftists to try and tar conservatives as the "candidate[s] of exhausting and divisive social issues and the ongoing war" One wonders who believes this view of the religious as protagonists in this battle.

Obviously it is the lefts judges who strike all the blows against tradition. No clearer proof of this is available then the Massachusetts Goodridge decision. Here we were, minding our own business - when out of the blue.... the left decides to poor gasoline all over the culture war.

When the American people respond in mass, it is they and their leaders who get called "devisive".

I think you're right on all counts except the evolution issue, which is going to kill Huckabee.

Polls with wording similar to the CBS poll that you cite consistently show large numbers of Americans supporting the teaching of "creationism" in public schools. But in practice, even in conservative locales such as Kansas and rural Pennsylvania, groups that attempt to inject creationism into public schools get pummeled in the subsequent election.

It's not entirely clear why this is the case, but I would point to two different factors. First, apart from a hardcore subset of evangelical Christians, most of the people who tell pollsters they believe in creationism are not actually "Creationists" in the common sense of the word. They aren't young-earthers who believe that our ancestors hunted triceratops and the Grand Canyon was carved by the Great Flood. And they don't want their children to be taught these things in science class. These are just people who aren't entirely comfortable with the materialist view of human evolution, and don't want their children to be taught that there is no God in science class. Given a narrow range of choices in a poll, people will try to sound moderate on the issue. When presented with a debate between scientists and creationist pseudo-scientists, the actual scientists win by wide margins every time, even in red states.

Second, I believe that committed creationists are outnumbered by educated adults who are utterly appalled by the thought of a creationist being elected President, and will vote against him regardless of where he stands on other issues. This includes libertarian and conservative scientists and engineers who might otherwise vote for the GOP.

If you believe that Huckabee's support for the Human Life amendment means that he would oppose Griswold, that puts him well to the right of the public as well. Opposition to Griswold probably killed the Bork nominatoin as much as anything else.

Here we were, minding our own business - when out of the blue.... the left decides to poor gasoline all over the culture war.

I should point out that, whatever the exact opposite of minding your own business is, that's what freaking out about who people marry in Massachusetts qualifies as.

i think what ms. ruta is driving at is that mr huckabee's views are asinine, whether or not their shared by the majority of americans or not.

i think what ms. ruta is driving at is that mr huckabee's views are asinine whether they're shared by the majority of americans or not.

there - pressed 'preview' before i pressed 'post' this time..............

I still don't understand what the big deal over the views on evolution is. All things being equal, I'd rather have a theist who also finds macro-evolution probable to the point of not paying much mind to competing views as president. But on the list of presidential qualities, it really does come pretty low. Most Americans, and most politicians, and most reporters who cover these issues don't know enough science to have more than a caricature of the idea of evolution in mind in any case (and this is all most students will come out with, given the best evolution biology education money can buy, in Kansas or in the bluest of blue states). It bespeaks a certain insularity, etc., but lots of other idiocies believed by presidential candidates seem to draw less attention from everyone.

Not running as a theocrat, no. That would never get him through the Republican primary. Best to dissemble and prevaricate until he has real power. (Q: Mr. Huckabee, do you reject evidence suggesting human beings are descended from lower primates? A: I believe there's good evidence that the folks in Congress are a bunch of monkeys. Ba-da-bing! LMFAO. Now lemme just change the subject before any moderates think I'm a crazy fuck who's too much of a giant pussy to defend his loopy-ass beliefs in public.)

He's not going to be writing the 8th grade science curriculum! He'll just be appointing the Secretary of the Dept. of Education. Totally different jurisdictions. I'm sure whomever he appoints won't be a creationist, because, you know, those are Huckabee's PRIVATE beliefs and he would never seek to exert influence over public policy because of them. No president has ever done that.

It bespeaks a certain insularity, etc., but lots of other idiocies believed by presidential candidates seem to draw less attention from everyone.

Such as?

I'm racking my brains to come up with something as idiotic as a literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis. I got nothing. UFOs? Does anyone get abducted by aliens?

re: creationism, it is a shallow but broad view. most people don't give it much thought. there is a hard core of creationists who can force their agenda, but that usually elicits a counter-reaction from the elites. that includes democratic and republican elites. by the nature of school districts the creationists often tend to take over somewhat conservative ones, and in cases like north san diego a moderate conservative counter-reaction generally sweeps them away. in the end republican elites in general are anti-creationist as well. as john derbyshire notes, no one national review's staff is a creationist.

does it matter if a political leader is a creationist? proximately, no. but it does suggest a tendency to reject elite consensus. whether that is a good thing or a bad thing depends on your perspective. many democrats reject the elite consensus on trade.

Re: as of 2006 a slight majority supported the federal marriage amendment.

Can you document this? I have never seen a poll where more than 50% (the definition of "majority") support a federal (as opposed to state level) marriage amendment. The most I've seen have been polls where a plurality (generally around 40%) support it, with, obviously, a large number of don't know/don't care category.

Actually, I believe President Carter did report that he had once seen a UFO (while Governor of Georgia). I think it has been persuasively shown that he actually saw Venus.

LaFollette Progressive,

Very well said on the discrepancies in polling and what actually occurs w/r/t teaching creationism.

Nicholas Beaudrot,
If you believe that Huckabee's support for the Human Life amendment means that he would oppose Griswold, that puts him well to the right of the public as well.

I don't see how one follows from the other. A human life amendment would simply mean that the abortion question would no longer be answered by an application of the privacy doctrine - whether or not the privacy doctrine was a correctly grounded in the Constitution is a separate question and one that, for the purposes of abortion, would be made moot by a Constitutional amendment.

Erm, I should have been a little clearer ... if you believe that Huckabee's views on life encompass not just opposition to contraception education but also opposition to contraception period, then Huckabee is well to the right of the public. Ten minutes with google, I haven't been able to find anything other than his comments about contraception education.

If the HLA establishes that life begins at conception, then doesn't the state have the duty to prevent harm to all lives as defined by the contitution, therefor banning any form of contraception that, say, prevents implantation?

Yes, I know that most Americans don't believe in evolution and that, even those who do, very few understand its wonderful subtleties. That said, it is a scientific fact, agreed upon by the entire biological community except fringe characters, like Michael Behe who is disowned by his own biology department. http://www.lehigh.edu/~inbios/news/evolution.htm

Science is not democratic (why don't we just vote on geocentrism?), and the news media are not showing "a rare and healthy sense of perspective" by neglecting to treat this man like the anti-science, charming zealot that he is.

I agree with Marquis about the evolution issue (although I would state it stronger than he does-- I think nonbelief in evolution is crazy). Unless there is a serious threat that Huckabee is going to start telling science teachers that they can't teach science, I don't think his advocacy of creationism (which is not particularly virulent-- I heard him on Bill Maher's show and he just said he's afraid of ideas that don't leave some sort of room for God) is a salient issue in the election.

Of course, that having been said, this IS the type of issue that can be demagogued (a left-wing version of what the right did with the ACLU and the Pledge of Allegiance in the 1988 campaign) and Republicans might want to think about THAT in deciding whether to vote for the man.

I don't think it's "crazy" in the sense that something's awry with brain chemistry or mental models. Huckabee is a Baptist preacher among other things. Beliefs do exist in context. Disbelief in evolution in a working scientist is pretty close to crazy; in a politician and preacher it's probably less crazy than (if he really thinks it) Dodd's apparent belief that he can magically, as president, command the price of oil to be $X.

If the HLA establishes that life begins at conception, then doesn't the state have the duty to prevent harm to all lives as defined by the contitution, therefor banning any form of contraception that, say, prevents implantation?

Hmmm, I am not actually sure what advocates of the HLA say it would look like. But as unlikely as it is to pass, it would enter a whole new stratosphere of un-passibility if it were to prevent people taking the Pill. Most Evangelical pro-lifers use contraception and I would guess that of those the majority use the Pill. The HLA would have to somehow distinguish between pre- and post- implantation.

Fitz babbles: "Obviously it is the lefts judges who strike all the blows against tradition. No clearer proof of this is available then the Massachusetts Goodridge decision. Here we were, minding our own business - when out of the blue.... the left decides to poor gasoline all over the culture war."

The Massachusetts Court (mostly appointed by Republicans) decided a case brought before it and left it to the Governor (the Ridiculous Romney) and the legislature to take further measures. They did so.

Fitz still thinks it's okay to jail people for gay sex, of course, so he never had a problem when such things happened. He doesn't consider things like that to be part of a "culture war." Like all good religious fascists, Fitz thinks jailing or pounding the crap out of "sinners" is just fine.

When the Fitzes of the world are long gone and remain in human memory only as distasteful memories - like witchhunters and Popes with armies - the world will be a much better place.

TMoC writes: "I still don't understand what the big deal over the views on evolution is. All things being equal, I'd rather have a theist who also finds macro-evolution probable to the point of not paying much mind to competing views as president. But on the list of presidential qualities, it really does come pretty low."

I generally agree, but since the Repiglicans think issues like flag-burning and hammering "the gays" are serious issues, I don't see why the creationist viewpoint shouldn't also come up.

Especially since creationists are much more likely to deeply concerned with flag-burning and harbor desires to hammer "the gays." Much more often than not the bird-turds of ignorance gather together in the same thick skulls.

"I'm racking my brains to come up with something as idiotic as a literal interpretation of the Book of Genesis. I got nothing. UFOs? Does anyone get abducted by aliens?"

Aliens abducting people is extremely improbable, but not as idiotic as Genesis, and not as idiotic as Mr. God Did It Huckabee.

LaFollette Progressive:

I think you're right on all counts except the evolution issue, which is going to kill Huckabee.

Polls with wording similar to the CBS poll that you cite consistently show large numbers of Americans supporting the teaching of "creationism" in public schools. But in practice, even in conservative locales such as Kansas and rural Pennsylvania, groups that attempt to inject creationism into public schools get pummeled in the subsequent election.

It's not entirely clear why this is the case, but I would point to two different factors. First, apart from a hardcore subset of evangelical Christians, most of the people who tell pollsters they believe in creationism are not actually "Creationists" in the common sense of the word. They aren't young-earthers who believe that our ancestors hunted triceratops and the Grand Canyon was carved by the Great Flood. And they don't want their children to be taught these things in science class. These are just people who aren't entirely comfortable with the materialist view of human evolution, and don't want their children to be taught that there is no God in science class.

I think you misread Huckabee there. It seems to me to be pretty clear from his explanation of his answer about evolution that he is one of those "poll creationists" rather than one of the "hardcore young earth" creationists.

The real issue here is that a lot of the people posting here hate religion itself and anyone who takes the notion of God seriously they regard as a zealot who cannot be trusted not to turn the U.S. into a theocracy. In fact, many of them would probably regard anything less than government hostility toward religion to be a violation of the first amendment and to be equivalent to theocracy.

Here is the previous comment with the correct italicizations:

LaFollette Progressive:

I think you're right on all counts except the evolution issue, which is going to kill Huckabee.

Polls with wording similar to the CBS poll that you cite consistently show large numbers of Americans supporting the teaching of "creationism" in public schools. But in practice, even in conservative locales such as Kansas and rural Pennsylvania, groups that attempt to inject creationism into public schools get pummeled in the subsequent election.

It's not entirely clear why this is the case, but I would point to two different factors. First, apart from a hardcore subset of evangelical Christians, most of the people who tell pollsters they believe in creationism are not actually "Creationists" in the common sense of the word. They aren't young-earthers who believe that our ancestors hunted triceratops and the Grand Canyon was carved by the Great Flood. And they don't want their children to be taught these things in science class. These are just people who aren't entirely comfortable with the materialist view of human evolution, and don't want their children to be taught that there is no God in science class.

I think you misread Huckabee there. It seems to me to be pretty clear from his explanation of his answer about evolution that he is one of those "poll creationists" rather than one of the "hardcore young earth" creationists.

The real issue here is that a lot of the people posting here hate religion itself and anyone who takes the notion of God seriously they regard as a zealot who cannot be trusted not to turn the U.S. into a theocracy. In fact, many of them would probably regard anything less than government hostility toward religion to be a violation of the first amendment and to be equivalent to theocracy.


The problem people have with evolution is not that we ascended from apes; but that we will descend into them.

Fitz drags his knuckles: "The problem people have with evolution is not that we ascended from apes; but that we will descend into them. "

In your case that would be an improvement.

Garance Franke-Ruta should stop using the term "Christianist." That's just Sully-speak for "Christian who doesn't approve of my sex life."

Glaivester never misses an opportunity to pummel one of "the gays": "Garance Franke-Ruta should stop using the term "Christianist." That's just Sully-speak for "Christian who doesn't approve of my sex life.""

Terri Schiavo's husk didn't even have a sex life - unless necrophilia committed by Republican legislators counts - but Christianist certainly is a good word to describe the circus animals who used it for political gain.

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