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Power and Weakness

24 Sep 2007 05:22 pm

Ezra:

I genuinely don't understand the quaking fear over Ahmadinejad's interview at Columbia. When did America become so weak, so insecure, that we mistrust our capacity to converse with potentially hostile world leaders? Do we really believe the president of Columbia is so doltish as to be outsmarted by a former traffic engineer from Tehran? Do we really see no utility in publicly grilling prominent liars in such a way that their denials lose credibility? What do we have to lose from a foreign leader, even a hostile one, somberly laying a wreath at the site of a tragedy? When did we become so afraid? And for all the conservative talk that a loss in Iraq will diminish our reputation for strength and thus harm our security, how must it look when some three-foot tall Iranian firebrand keeps trying to dialogue with us and we keep dodging his calls?

I think it's worth distinguishing between two inter-related objections to Ahmadinejad's Columbia appearance. The first, which is mine, is that it's shameful for a great American university to supply a prominent platform to an odious figure like Iran's President, particularly at a time when his government is almost certainly involved in attacks on U.S. troops in Iraq. The second, which can follow from the first but doesn't necessarily, is that the act of inviting Ahmadinejad to speak is a manifestation of American weakness that may eventually contribute to our destruction at the hands of our enemies. For hints of the latter take, see this Roger Kimball post, in which he quotes from Bagehot:

History is strewn with the wrecks of nations which have gained a little progressiveness at the cost of a great deal of hard manliness, and have thus prepared themselves for destruction as soon as the movements of the world gave a chance for it.

Were the year 1938, and the speaker in question Adolf Hitler as opposed to Ahmadinejad, this quotation would feel more apropos. But this is where I part ways with some of my confreres on the right: I don't think it's accurate or useful to suggest that the American intellectual class is preparing our country for "destruction" by extending a nauseating degree of courtesy to a poisonous Iranian demagogue. The German Fuhrer was actually an existential threat to the free nations of the West, and the failure of the chattering classes of his era to reckon with that threat did prepare their nations for the destruction visited on them in World War II. Whereas Ahmadinejad is a tinhorn rabblerouser with a tenous grip on power, and the country he attempts to rule is a paper tiger whose quest for nuclear weapons is a manifestation of its weakness, not its strength. I despise him, and I fervently wish that I inhabited a country whose great universities had the good sense not to treat his appearance in New York as an occasion for a lesson in "free speech." (Particularly given the slight double standard that occasionally seems to be at work in American academia these days.) But I don't fear him, because I think that America is easily strong enough - and our enemies weak enough, more importantly - to survive the folly on display at Columbia University today.

Update: See also Reihan's thoughts.

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Comments (31)

I think the answer to Ezra's question, "Do we really believe the president of Columbia is so doltish as to be outsmarted by a former traffic engineer from Tehran?", for many of us, was "yes". That said, I was pleasantly surprised by Bollinger's opening statement to Ahmedinejad. Still, I would have preferred if Columbia made him face an Iranian opponent.

Well, that's a nice backtrack from Ross. It sure beats his "gotta agree" with Bloody Billy Kristol.

Ahmedinejad deserves to be laughed at, and he is being laughed at. That's a refreshing change from the politics of fear.

Sieg Heil, Sieg Heil, right in the Fuhrer's face!

Now let's build on that momentum and start laughing at Dumbya every time he utters a word. He's earned it.

Sorry, I think this completely backfired on Ahmedinejad. It gave him a high platform and he destroyed himself with claims that there were no homosexuals in Iran. It *hurt* him, and none of this shows some civilizational "weakness" so many LGF-types fantasize about.

It bears repeating that its no longer 1938. This fact eludes too many, and it can't be stressed enough.

Overall, a good show against Iran.

DU

I read a little more about Ahmadinejad and apparently he is somewhat nastier than I gave him credit for. It's hard to make excuses for someone who sponsors a Holocaust denial conference.

That said,
1) what justification is there for some countries to have nuclear weapons, and others not? None of the existing nuclear powers has been particularly peaceful since 1945, at least Iran has launched a war against anyone (the last war they fought, they were invaded by Iraq first). Since I know Mr. Douthat is an opponent of the use of nuclear weapons at Hiroshima, I'm sure he can appreciate this argument.
2) how much does someone have to differ from American liberal values before you want to ensure that US students won't hear from his opinions? Would you prevent the students from hearing from a Marxist or Islamist intellectual as well?
3) Do you think that shutting out Ahmadinejad is going to do anything to reduce his popularity in the Islamic world? Extremely doubtful.


And there's nothing inherently stupid about traffic engineers. To be any kind of an engineer requires quite a large amount of intellectual ability- at least as much as it takes to be a political commentator.

Ahmadinejad is a world leader and by that standard he shouldn't be treated any differently than any other. His views are not popular here but he has experienced what we have not. We have no understanding of what life is like in the middle east. In regards to his claims against Israel, they have been blown out of proportion and incase people didn't realize this everyone in the middle east with exception to Israel, dislikes Israel. They aren't just blindly hating the Israelis for having a different religion, they dislike them for what happened to the Palestinians and ergo the countries that fled to.
We in the US complain about immigrants from Mexico, but in the Middle East after the creation of Israel we caused the same thing to occur. Hundreds of Thousands of people being forced out of their homes, out of their country, because of what a U.N Committee decided should be done with their land.

People need to reason, think, and try to be more understanding towards other people's culture.

Sorry,

but this response about Ahmadinejad does not dissuade me from still agreeing with Ezra. What is America afraid of? That he is going to persuade someone in Tennessee that somehow he is a decent guy? Please.

For you to claim that this is somehow a sign of Columbia’s weakness or failure is ridiculous. Great Universities have always been about protecting the right of the fringe to communicate those view points. If Ahmadinejab is not allowed to speak there, you start down a very dangerous line of thought about what ideas and thoughts are allowed in a place where intellectual thought are suppose to reign supreme.

So much for listening and engaging with view points you hate.

As Glenn Greenwald and Hilzoy have endlessly pointed out, talking to leaders of foreign countries in which you have fundamental disagreements isn't a sign of agreement or approval with those countries. It's called diplomacy. You know that thing we do in order to avoid blowing things up and killing people.

I'm not sure why Columbia thinks it's in some position to dialogue with Iran. Nor am I so confident in such dialogue to bring about "understanding". I certainly wouldn't have extended such an invitation had I been in Bolinger's shoes.
That said, I can't really believe that Ahmadinejad was somehow honored by being publicly scolded by some academic administrator. Further, I can't really see Ahmadinejad's position in the world getting a big boost simply because he gave a talk at Columbia...it's not like it's AEI or something.
I had thought "Birzeit on the Hudson" would look bad in all this bad they came out looking pretty good.

All of this hysterical bemoaning over "hard manliness" sounds totally vaginal, and also, just a little bit gay. Just throwing that out there, Mr. Kimball. You, too, Harvey Mansfield.

From what I can tell, the three-foot tall Iranian firebrand made an ass out of himself. Score one for freedom and democracy.

Re: what justification is there for some countries to have nuclear weapons, and others not?

Simple. The fewer countries with nukes the better. Ideally zeroes countries, but if not that then at least no more mebers for this dubious club.

Re: Ahmadinejad is a world leader and by that standard he shouldn't be treated any differently than any other.

Would you have said that about Idi Amin back in the 70s if he had come calling? How about Gen Pinochet? Or the Apartheid rulers of South Africa?

How about Gen Pinochet? Or the Apartheid rulers of South Africa?

No, rather than a public platform, America prefers giving those types underhanded support.

People need to reason, think, and try to be more understanding towards other people's culture.

Cultural understanding and diplomacy have a place , though history amply teaches that in the long run credible military strength and sometimes wars fought by men with backbones are needed to deal with the Amadinejads of the world.

Re: No, rather than a public platform, America prefers giving those types underhanded support.

I do feel that that is an excellent point. American conservatives were enthusiastic supporters of quite a few people that were way more evil than Ahmadinejad in his worst dreams. Pinochet, Trujillo, Somoza, the apartheid rulers of South Africa, the leaders of Guatemala....

That doesn't take away from the fact that Ahmadinejad, if the bit about denying the Holocaust is true, is a nasty piece of work. it discredits the messenger, not the message.

When did America become so weak, so insecure, that we mistrust our capacity to converse with potentially hostile world leaders?

[Insert obligatory quote about left-wing UC Davis academics being so weak, so insecure, that they mistrust their capacity to coverse with the likes of Larry Summers.]

So it was the "chattering classes" that failed to sound the tocsin when it came to Hitler? Liberals and socialists were always vehemently opposed to Hitler. It was FDR, not "Mr. Republican" Robert Taft, who was Hitler's greatest foe, and it was the Conservative Neville Chamberlain (of course) who surrendered at Munich. The chatterer here, Mr. Douthat, is you.

As for Ahmadinejad, it was wrong of Columbia to invite him, but he seems to have made an ass of himself, so there's little harm done.

Peter Leavitt writes: "Cultural understanding and diplomacy have a place , though history amply teaches that in the long run credible military strength and sometimes wars fought by men with backbones are needed to deal with the Amadinejads of the world."

Peter, does typing phrases like "wars fought by men with backbones" make you feel tough? Because I'll be honest with you - it makes you look like the worst sort of bloodthirsty chickenhawk - like a Kristol or a Podhoretz. We both know that if a war with Iran occurs you'll be doing your part solely by cheering from your couch. With that in mind you should probably have the sense to avoid sounding like a moronic movie villain when you call for war.

I am a student at Columbia and was proud of my school today. We showed strength in that we don't have to cower before tyrants or stick our heads in the sand to pretend that they don't exist. President Bollinger stood up for all of us, and I am proud of him.

In this regard, one snarky remark. I think that the chattering classes, and in this case I mean the Right, should have given the man - an expert in the First Amendment as an attorney before he became President of Columbia - the benefit of the doubt that he would know how to handle him. A lot of commentators assumed that they knew what was occurring because they understand the Ivy Leagues as one big stereotype, and they were off-base.

One more insightful remark - I also support Columbia's position because, as is pointed out above with the reference to dictators whom America previously supported, it is extraordinarily difficult to judge in these situations, and I think that true bans should be reserved only for the worse of situations. Israeli justices are speaking at the law school on Monday, and if we had bowed to pressure on Ahmadinejad, we would be susceptible to pressure from special interests who consider Israel to be evil. Dick Cheney did not like Nelson Mandela because he considered him to be a terrorist, while many people today do not like the leader of the United States. I get furious when I travel and people condemn the U.S. to the point that they will no longer listen to our views, and I think that we look equally stubborn and foolish when we do the same. Columbia was on the right side of history today, in both its allowing Ahmadinejad to speak and in showing how a liberal democracy can defend itself through its principles and its reason.

Uncommonly obtuse even for you, Mo. He denies the Holocaust; and he promises to do it again. His
background is that of a kidnapper of American
diplomats, a murderer of Iranian political elements, a functionary of their Interior Ministry's Evin facility. He mas made common cause with the Castro regime and their Venezuelan
doppelganger, Chavez, He's denied the essential facts of 9/11; which puts him on common ground with both of the former elements.not surprisingly since 10 of the hijackers transited through there. Despite the Shia nature of most of the victims of the Taliban in the aftermath of the Afghan Civil WAr 1992-1996; he still makes common cause with them against coalition forces there. His associates in the Syrian government have murdered their way to a quorum in the Lebanese govt. To replace with a Hezbollah state; whose guiding principle is the destruction of Israel; much like their other proxy Hamas.

Don't be patting yourself about the left's stalwart opposition to fascism either. In the
20s, Stalin's First International's goal was to topple the Social Democrats since they saw them
as the main obstacle to Communist rule in Europe.
They didn't see Hitler as a serious foe until well
into 1933, In the United States there was more concern attacking American corporations through
the Nye Committee hearings; which was a major force in stoking isolationism. Goals facilitated
by the likes of young committee staffers like Alger Hiss. They used the recognition of the
Soviet Union, as a pretext for infiltration of
govt, industry, media, et al.They had the same strategy in Spain; spending more time purging the POUM anarchists from the Republic's ranks than going after the Loyalists. This was was drove Orwell and Dos Passos from the left ranks. Then came the Molotov/Ribbentrop pact where popular front elements became effectively anti-war (see Pete Seeger) allowing for the partition of Poland, which would lead to Operation Barbarossa; Ironically that put them in the same position as
the America First Committee.
invasion of Russia

Columbia gained nothing from hosting Ahmadinejad, it only looked foolish. Ahmadinejad, on the other hand, gained propaganda points. Bollinger's little speech won't be heard in Iran, or in the Middle East.

Question: if Columbia did itself so proud today, why did it black out the podium and backdrop?

This is beyond sad. It's the closing of a man out of his own depth. It's an faculty lunch speech dispatched against a man accustomed to command the secret police, rockets, EFPs, sophisticated propaganda and disinformation cells. Bollinger was game, but not only is he not in the same ring, he doesn't even know where the fight is scheduled to take place. If this is what our intellectual leaders think is effective resistance against the Islamic Revolution then we are in serious trouble.

link

As to the last two posts:

Behold the dogs of war. Can someone neuter the little critters and toss them a Scooby snack afterwards?

Narciso,

To keep the tone of the discussion cooler, can we keep the Castro and Chavez regimes out of it? you will find a considerable number of Americans who are wholehearted supporters of the latter and more qualified supporters of the former, more than you would find supporters of Ahmadinejad. Whatever your views on their domestic policies, you would probably agree that neither of them is a threat to the domestic security of the US. I won't go any further into their defense because I don't want to derail this discussion into a tangent. There wasn't the same animus to having Chavez zpeak in new York last year as there was about Ahmadinejad, for good reason.

Some of your post I have no real quarrel with. But regarding the Syrian regime, I would point out that their cause in Lebanon is far from indefensible. Lebanon is historically part of Syria, and many Syrians regard it as unfairly wrenched away. Lebanon was formed as a homeland not just for the Christians, but specifically and narrowly for the Maronite Catholics, who saw nothing wrong with shutting their Orthodox coreligionists out of the seats of power, as well as the Shia Muslims, and whose leaders cravenly prostituted themsleves to great power politics. There are reasons why not just the Shia Muslims but also the Orthodox Christians back the Syrian cause. There is a very good argument that Lebanon today, as a state which is only about a quarter Maronite, has lost whatever legitimacy it once had as a nation, and should peacefully join together with Syria.

While I have some sympathy for the Maronites, it's to a large extent their own fault; so many of them chose to emigrate to Europe, South America and the US, to pursue their economic fortunes, that they made themselves a minority in their own country.

Moe: Behold the dogs of war. Can someone neuter the little critters and toss them a Scooby snack afterwards?

Behold the will of the wisp of pacifism. Can someone find this fellow a backbone and stand him up to face Ahmadinejad and Bin Laden.

Maybe he has no desire to fight Ahmadinejad, because he has no reason to. Why do you want him to fight your wars for you?

If you care so much about defeating Iran, go fight them yourself.

Peter Leavitt writes: "Behold the will of the wisp of pacifism. Can someone find this fellow a backbone and stand him up to face Ahmadinejad and Bin Laden."

No one is facing bin Laden at all, Petey. Your dimwitted thug of a president allowed Cheney and the neo-con scum to talk him first into invading Iraq, and then into trying to do the same to Iran, while seemingly forgetting all about bin Laden and 9/11 - except for using it as a cheap slogan.

Bin Laden will probably die some day in peace and freedom, surrounded by friends and family. That's apparently something Bush and his remaining suckfish can live with.

"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our No. 1 priority, and we will not rest until we find him."
—George W. Bush, September 2001

"I don't know where [bin Laden] is. I have no idea and I really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
—George W. Bush, March 2002

If an islamist general took power in Pakistan, or a more diligent Saudi minister took the reigns on
the Arabian peninsula, and say he won a free election; you would have no problem welcoming him,
right. Osama is an inperfect vessel for the jihadist movement; a child of the Hadramaut and Syria; with an intellectual understanding but no real hardship as compared with Zawahiri; who managed to incorporate the most retrograde of the
ISI/General Intelligence arms and material pipeline to the Peshawar council of the 1980s
(Hekmatyar, Raisul Sayyaf, Younis Khalis; the last
was the father of the Taliban movement). Ironically,it was a generation of retreat from
the Middle East and Western Africa by the US; which empowered his belief that the only way to topple his home regime; was to threaten the "Far
Enemy"; a pattern most posters on this board want to continue. Despite the fact that turnover
at the middle levels of AQ is remarkably high;
(KSM, Rabia, al-Liby et al) It seems equally clear that ISI and elements of the Afghan army are providing protection. As they did with A.Q. Khan, which spread their wares to N.Korea, Iran, libya, et al

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