Robert Jordan, RIP

The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. What was, what will be, and what is, may yet fall under the Shadow.

Let the Dragon ride again on the winds of time.

Robert Jordan was, for about four years during my adolescence, easily my favorite writer in the world. The first five books of his Wheel of Time saga are among the best popular fantasy novels of the last few decades, with only George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire and Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow and Thorn providing serious competition. Now he is dead, still young at 58, with his saga still unfinished. It went on too long - eleven books, with at least two more projected - and when it is completed (as I assume it will be, with his family or other writers filling in the blanks), it will be less than it could have been. But at its best, it was remarkable indeed: Few writers have given me such pleasure, and few, I suspect, ever will. It's hard to imagine loving any books more than the books that you love when you're fifteen years old.

Jordan was a pen name; his real name was James Oliver Rigney, Jr. He was a South Carolinian, a Citadel graduate, a Vietnam veteran, a devout Episcopalian. He is survived by his wife, Harriet. Requiescat in pacem.

Comments

It's hard to reconcile this thread with the one about the "Canon." Jordan was a hack of Terry Brooks proportions.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | September 18, 2007 11:11 PM

The first five books of his Wheel of Time saga are among the best popular fantasy novels of the last few decades, with only George R.R. Martin's Song of Ice and Fire and Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow and Thorn providing serious competition.

i think the drop off was pretty sharp after book 3.

It's hard to reconcile this thread with the one about the "Canon." Jordan was a hack of Terry Brooks proportions.

not fair. brooks is more hackish.

Posted by razib | September 18, 2007 11:17 PM

Robert Jordan was a great writer and his works shall continue to thrill readers for decades to come. It is a pity that the 12th book will not be finished by him personally but most readers like myself will devour it just to know what was the original planned ending by the original author.

MoeLarryAndJesus & razib can write there own books for us to marvel in (though I seriously doubt their capacity to write, period!) before demeaning those successful writers out there.

Posted by Scott Edgar | September 18, 2007 11:44 PM

Robert Jordan was not a hack. His style and ideas were distinct and I fail to see the comparison between him and Brooks. I love both of their writings and am confident in saying that neither were hacks of either one.

Posted by Jacob | September 18, 2007 11:48 PM

"MoeLarryAndJesus & razib can write there own books for us to marvel in (though I seriously doubt their capacity to write, period!) before demeaning those successful writers out there."

"I love both of their writings and am confident in saying that neither were hacks of either one."

Consider the relative literacy of these two Jordan fans.

I stand by my opinion.

(N)either were hacks of either one" made me giggle, though. That's Dan Quayle-level English.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | September 18, 2007 11:58 PM

um ... did I just argue that Robert Jordan should be assigned in college survey courses on English literature? No. I argued that he was a great writer of *popular* fantasy, and my teenage self loved him for it. That's all.

Posted by Ross Douthat | September 19, 2007 12:07 AM

Descriptively, his writing was fantastic and his plots and storyline were page-turning -- too bad there were so many friggin pages to turn!

His primary characters, females especially, seemed to be trapped in a junior high school soap opera. If what is 11-plus books in the Wheel of Time was trimmed of the excessive emotional content, not to mention endless descriptions of every character's choice of dress, hairstyle and meal in every scene, I imagine one could easily end up with a six-book series.

His fans may think Jordan will be remembered most by fantasy readers for his unfinished epic, but I imagine it is publishers and the future authors they associate with who will remember him most for his unfinished epic.

Posted by Gamgee | September 19, 2007 12:08 AM

Ross rolls away the stone and replies: "um ... did I just argue that Robert Jordan should be assigned in college survey courses on English literature? No. I argued that he was a great writer of *popular* fantasy, and my teenage self loved him for it. That's all."

I guess using the word "remarkable" doesn't count, then. But yeah, you can be forgiven for loving a hack under the guise of your "teenage self" and I should be ashamed of myself for pointing out the interesting timing in relation to the "Canon" piece.

But I'm not.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | September 19, 2007 12:23 AM

“MoeLarryAndJesus”
Obviously a comedian who thinks he is God, or part of the holy trinity of slap stick?
Please thrill us with your limited wit.

As they say “Opinion’s are cheap” and you chose to use the word “Hack” it is quite obvious that ML&J has stretched his imagination and vocab to its limit.

Look it up my friend.

Jordan was enjoyable, diverse in character and full of wonderful imagery.

Posted by D.Brin | September 19, 2007 12:39 AM

[Sarcasm] All the respect RJ is getting really warms my heart. [End Sarcasm]

I for one will morn the death of RJ, and his lifes work, which he painted in such exquisite detail. Some of us have lost a peace of our heart with his passing.

Posted by Nothingsafe | September 19, 2007 12:56 AM

His primary characters, females especially, seemed to be trapped in a junior high school soap opera

he admitted they were all based on his wife. not that they're atypical for teenage oriented fantasy, but i think that they are especially tiresome cut-outs because of the length of the series. a trilogy of hands-on-hips-fits-of-anger one can handle, but nearly a dozen is probably too much.

i didn't go past book 6 myself, but it seemed that the story arc had really gotten out of control and i noted that many amazon reviews for the later books complained about the lack of progress and sluggishness. martin has started to show that in song of ice & fire too ;-(

Posted by razib | September 19, 2007 1:27 AM

D. Brin writes: "As they say “Opinion’s are cheap” and you chose to use the word “Hack” it is quite obvious that ML&J has stretched his imagination and vocab to its limit.

Look it up my friend.

Jordan was enjoyable, diverse in character and full of wonderful imagery."

The plural of opinion is opinions. No apostrophe necessary. Jordan himself was probably not filled with imagery.

The literacy of Jordan defenders continues to be paraded here. I continue to be amused by it.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | September 19, 2007 1:42 AM

In total agreement with you, Ross. The Wheel of Time series gets a lot of flack, and frankly deserves a good bit of it, but the books are generally fun and surprisingly epic (maybe a bit too epic--I can barely keep up with who's who after eleven books, each new installment of which keeps introducing ever greater numbers of new characters...)

In salute to the man, I'll let my dork flag fly for, oh, another few sentences. Your assessment of the man's primary work is pretty much the same as mine. The first five books were rad escapist fun. The sixth and seven books were good, if unevenly paced. Unfortunately, the eighth and ninth books ground the series to a crawl, and the tenth put it in a quasi-vegetative state. The eleventh made a good effort in actually bringing a few things to a head, but I still don't see how the author could have ended the series in one more book like he said he would.

Okay. Dork flag is furled. Current literary credibility is -18. Time to go reread Ulysses another six times.

Posted by Immoralist | September 19, 2007 2:28 AM

Wow. Some of you people are sad little fools. Robert Jordan had a huge fan following. I found his work extremely entertaining as did many others. Was he the most gifted author that ever lived? No. Did he give his readers a detailed and interesting work of escapism? Yes. Have some respect you self righteous twats, he did far more for people than any of you sad morons.

Posted by Bob | September 19, 2007 2:41 AM

Arguably, Jordan's real importance wasn't the quality of his own writing, but that his books sold well enough to allow his publisher to support many other authors as well.

While his writing wasn't to my taste, it allowed others who were to continue to work.

Regardless of how one may feel about his work, all reports I've seen praise him as a person. May we each be so fortunate.

(Example:
http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/009381.html )

Posted by Hal O'Brien | September 19, 2007 3:47 AM

“MoeLarryAndJesus”... Please thrill us with your limited wit. Actually, it has to do with rather pedestrian and unending churlishness.

Posted by Peter Leavitt | September 19, 2007 5:49 AM

um ... did I just argue that Robert Jordan should be assigned in college survey courses on English literature? No. I argued that he was a great writer of *popular* fantasy, and my teenage self loved him for it. That's all.

You have a truly bizarre idea about what a book being assigned in a college class means about that book. Truly.

Posted by Freddie | September 19, 2007 7:44 AM

I got a great deal of plesure from Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time saga. I think he did a good job of creating a unique world, more than simply another Tolkein clone. He had a great vision. If he executed that vision differently than some would like so be it. I hope at some point people can argue about the qualities of my collected body of work and that so many people shared the fun of reading my words.

All sympathy and empathy to Mr Jordan's family.

Posted by taijiman | September 19, 2007 8:12 AM

The plural of opinion is opinions. No apostrophe necessary. Jordan himself was probably not filled with imagery.

Wow. I can point out grammatical errors. I'm witty and erudite!

Posted by MoeLarryAndZoraster | September 19, 2007 8:42 AM

You have a truly bizarre idea about what a book being assigned in a college class means about that book. Truly.

Freddie. Do Tell more. I interpret Ross as simply making the rather ordinary observation that he's opining on a mass entertainment author. And that he greatly enjoyed this particular author as an adolescent. And he furthermore implies said author probably wouldn't make the cut for Freshman English. He's not saying a book "assigned in a college" can't have been popular in its day. Maybe the Yalies of 2079 will indeed be reading Jordan. Instead of throwing out insults, why not follow through with your ideas by explaining them. Or would that be too "bizarre" for you?

Posted by MoeLarryAndZoroaster | September 19, 2007 8:58 AM

Instead of throwing out insults, why not follow through with your ideas by explaining them. Or would that be too "bizarre" for you?

Here you go: he responds to criticism of Jordan by saying "I'm not saying he should be taught in college." Which demonstrates that he thinks that the fact that a book is taught in college means someone is making a claim to the excellence of that book. That's just wrong.

And, by the way, Jordan is already being taught at many colleges, and I'm sure, some semesters at least, at Yale. No, not in your average sophomore survey. But he is being taught.

Posted by Freddie | September 19, 2007 9:11 AM

Jordan built a world in the way that I don't think anyone else except Tolkien has. What he did with his (somewhat repetitive and uni-dimensional) characters in the world, well, it's a bit less impressive, though still makes for an enjoyable read.

Tad Williams, though, is lame, lame, lame.

Posted by TW Andrews | September 19, 2007 10:30 AM

Freddie reports: "Jordan is already being taught at many colleges, and I'm sure, some semesters at least, at Yale. No, not in your average sophomore survey. But he is being taught."

Seriously?

And people complain because Toni Morrison and Virginia Woolf are being taught?

If this is true, then people are complaining about the wrong canon interruptus. Next you'll tell me the fiction of Newt Gingrich is being taught at Liberty U. by Professor Douthat.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | September 19, 2007 11:30 AM

Sure is. Classes in contemporary fantasy, cyberpunk and other genre fiction are available at tons of colleges. And what's the harm? Those things are also worth analysis. No one's claiming they're Shakespeare; they're claiming that they are worthy of interpretation and understanding, and that their study might in some way enrich students.

Posted by Freddie | September 19, 2007 12:58 PM

Personally, I felt a little abused by the series, and I know a lot of other friends did too. Yes, no one HAS to read any more books, but at a certain point it felt like the crawl pace was a way to wring as much money out of the readership the earlier books had established.

Incidentally, I don't feel that way about Martin's books, mostly because he's basically writing separate novels for each character rather than just stretching out plots without adding new character development.

That said, the early books especially were a good read and my condolences to RJ's family.

Posted by Socialized Geek | September 19, 2007 1:13 PM

Freddie replies: "Sure is. Classes in contemporary fantasy, cyberpunk and other genre fiction are available at tons of colleges. And what's the harm? Those things are also worth analysis. No one's claiming they're Shakespeare; they're claiming that they are worthy of interpretation and understanding, and that their study might in some way enrich students."

I was kidding, Freddie. As a long-time fan of Herbert, Ellison, Dick, Brunner, Tolkien, Howard, and many more, I'm well aware of the value of much in some often despised genres. I can still remember being horrified by how bad "Sword of Shanara" or whatever it was called was, though. Did Brooks ever improve at all?

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | September 19, 2007 1:26 PM

Supposedly, Robert Jordan told his brother/cousin the rest of the story -- I assume in somewhat sketchy outline -- about a week before he passed away. So while the last book may not be as good as the first few, it will at least accurately represent Jordan's vision.

Posted by Steven | September 19, 2007 1:52 PM

Does anyone know whether Jordan got his nom de plume from the protagonist in For Whom the Bell Tolls? I can only assume so. Now that was a book.

Posted by hugo | September 19, 2007 1:56 PM

Anyone who enjoys Jordan and Martin needs to go read Steven Erikson's "Malazan Book of the Fallen" series, he blows them both away.

Posted by Markzz | September 19, 2007 3:00 PM

I am very sad to hear the news. His personal struggle with a nasty disease, chronicled on his blog, was inspirational.

Yes, I too have started and stopped the series...currently, I am struggling to finish book 10. I enjoy the series, but I agree the subplots and cast of characters grows and grows with each book...and soon, you are overwhelmed trying to keep everything straight. Even the encyclopedia that came out needs updated since it only went through about book 6 or 7. But, I kept coming back due to an interesting story, fun characters, and a desire to see how it ends. He created a complex world that featured both female and male characters...often lacking in fantasy.

Posted by Eruonen | September 19, 2007 4:16 PM

'CROSSROADS OF TWILIGHT' SUCKED SO BAD, ALL THE OTHER BOOKS WERE OK SOME WERE GREAT, SPECIALLY "THE SHADOW RISING" (TEAR FOR THE AIL)

Posted by ced | September 19, 2007 11:36 PM

Can anyone tell me what is happening at the Dragonmount site. I have been trying to get on and the page appears closed.
You all make good points about both how long the series went on as well as the endless list of characters but I personally loved every book and every character became like a friend.
I will miss his posts. He was the only author I have every come across who talked with his fans.

Posted by dannielle | September 20, 2007 3:24 AM

I read Fantasy, & Science Fiction when I want "brain candy" literature. Robert Jordan fit the bill perfectly. Lets keep perspective here people.... It is just fantasy...
His books were well written, entertaining, and paved the way for other writers to follow suit. Writing is not easy, and takes dedication. Try writing a epic and then come back critizing any author who has entertained the masses.
Sincere condolences to his family.

Posted by Lyn | September 20, 2007 9:38 AM

I do not believe this.

Stop trampling on the guy's books just after he has died. If you didn't like them, fine. This is about the death of a man whose books many people like.

Show some respect.

Posted by Noneofyourbusiness | September 20, 2007 5:52 PM

I agree with Lyn. I'm currently reading book eleven of the series and I think it's fantastic. Although the plot is extremely detailed, I believe he holds all the threads together nicely. The overall story can be divided into four main strands concerning Rand, Perrin, Mat and Egwene. The sub-plots always have some connection to one or more of those strands. You just have to think a little to catch and follow the connections. Maybe his books are not to your taste, but every great book has fans and critics. The man has had 11 #1 bestsellers...give him some respect.

Posted by Rachael | September 20, 2007 6:00 PM

Funny that someone here claims that Jordan wasn't another Tolkien clone when he lifted so much directly from Lord of the Rings. I read the first 6 or 7 of the WoT back to back one summer after picking them up from a thrift store.

They are very obviously padded, and frankly seem to be written on a level that makes them palatable to readers who find Tolkien's prose too challenging.

It is too bad he passed away, it would have been nice to have at least have finished his series.

Posted by patrick | September 20, 2007 6:09 PM

Many (not all) of these comments constitute the most unashamed display of disrespect I've seen in some time. I guess I don't use the internet very much.

I proudly declare that Robert Jordan was and is one of my very favourite writers. I discovered him as a teenager, and I continue to reread and love his writing. I am deeply grieved that I won't be able to read the final book as he would have penned it.

R.I.P. James Oliver Rigney.

Posted by Scott Bartlett | September 20, 2007 8:07 PM

This is sad... so sad. A great man has passed away and all some people can do is offer their petty lashings to what he made his life's work. He didn't write those books for himself. After the first one gained so many followers, he went on and he wrote them for us. His fans. In fact, if you're not a fan then the only thing you should be saying at all is "My condolences to the family" or some other generic well-wish.

To MoeLarryAndJesus, razib, and anyone else with a mouth seemingly too big to notice the foot in it, SHAME ON YOU. Leave RJ alone. Unless any of you have written something equal or better than his 11 #1 bestsellers I suggest you bloody prats leave off with the bashing, else you might mind an Aiel spear at your throats.

Posted by Darkfriend | September 21, 2007 12:45 PM

Rest in Peace Robert Jordan aka James Rigney

Your stories have touched so many. It's sad that at a time when people should be rejoicing your presence amongst us, some can only find the capacity to destroy and belittle. I, for one, am extremely grateful that you decided to put pen to paper (or finger to keyboard), and I am sure that I am not alone.

GOD-SPEED

Posted by CAL | September 21, 2007 2:06 PM

Darkfriend writes: "To MoeLarryAndJesus, razib, and anyone else with a mouth seemingly too big to notice the foot in it, SHAME ON YOU. Leave RJ alone. Unless any of you have written something equal or better than his 11 #1 bestsellers I suggest you bloody prats leave off with the bashing, else you might mind an Aiel spear at your throats."

No, not an Aiel spear. That's my greatest fear.

Other than being called a "bloody prat" by some 12 year old geek on a message board, that is.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | September 21, 2007 6:52 PM

This is a news content web page, not a family memorial.

When Ronald Reagan died, the news organizations and commentators brought up his perceived successes and those things for which he was criticized. The same treatment is afforded any controversial or well known person, actor, author or public figure.

It may be true that those who belittle Jordan in a mean spirited way are wrong to do so after that fashion, but it is both absurd and obtuse to make the claim that message boards exist solely for the adulation of the person worthy of an article in the first place. If there are those among you who feel its necessary to comment on how good Jordan's books were and heap praise upon him, it is only fair to allow the opposite.

I gave praise where he deserved praise, and criticism where he deserved that. I chose not to be rude (or perhaps, not as rude) as some of Jordan's critics and some of his fans have been.

I started reading the Wheel of Time 7-8 years ago. I devoured each book, knowing the series wasn't finished, but convinced it wouldn't take so long as there were eight books in the series already published. When I read Winter's Heart I became so angry at the slowdown I swore I'd quit reading until they were all finished. I broke that oath after hearing he was sick earlier this year, figuring the series would finish soon.

Crossroads of Twilight was the biggest waste of money ever spent on a book. It had no story; virtually nothing happened. Book 11 was better, but still slow. I doubt any family member is going to be able to write books 12-plus. A fan ghostwriter would be better, I suppose, though I imagine those books to be half as good as his best and awash in his worst examples of writing.

Hopefully, by the time those books do get published, I'll be beyond caring. It's a crime to drag your faithful readers on for so long and give them so much less and less with each passing year. I truly feel for the folks who started reading the WoT in 1990.

Posted by Gamgee | September 21, 2007 10:19 PM

Sometimes, Jazz is only good for the player. It brings clarity, and happiness.

So, I skipped books 7 thru 10, 'cause I kind of understand about the jazz.

I think the author enjoyed his life with family and friends. He did some extensive work, and he set an inspiring example for anyone who would take the time to get the drift.

Terry Brooks is worse than forgettable, he's ignorable, throw-awayable, and didn't-even-noticeable.

Posted by Bob Beenthere | September 23, 2007 12:46 AM

....but, when I was 15, the Sword of Shannara was terrific! Epic, forever!

Seemed like different authors wrote the books that followed, but maybe I was beyond caring then, myself.

Posted by Bob Beenthere | September 23, 2007 2:10 AM

I think I have come to the realization I'm angry at Jordan for dying without finishing his work. It was a good romp while it lasted, I guess.

Posted by gamgee | September 23, 2007 1:29 PM

I've always found the dogma behind the kind of academic criticism in common use that deigns to tell people what is good and what isn't incomplete and full of holes. That is why those who hew too closely to the dogma miss the creativity and innovation that is right in front of their noses. Those who allow themselves to simply experience the book often are able to draw more from it than those who are have preconceived notions on what they should find to deem it good. Ross I think you were better served by your 15 year old instincts. You have been too easily browbeaten by MoeLarryAndJesus into your meek apology for liking Jordan. It's sad.

Truth is WoT is exceptional. One can draw up a laundry list of complaints and weaknesses but it doesn't change the fact that there isn't anything quite like it. If there is name it. Fantasy series that came before were operating with comparatively limited scope. WoT was seminal in changing the entire scale of epic fantasy. It set the precedent and I'd argue still does. Many of the most popular that have come after use many of the techniques most prominently featured in WoT. The critics seem to have missed this but that's why they are next to useless to listen to.

Posted by Grand Mufti | September 30, 2007 7:22 AM

You are a f***ing a**hole if you really believe his writing was bad or slander him. He was a great man revered by millions. Maybe you should have swiched places with him, that would have been a good idea.

Posted by Steve | October 12, 2007 9:50 PM