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Dumbledore Is Gay (II)

23 Oct 2007 04:25 pm

Of my remark, in response to J.K. Rowling's "by the way, Dumbledore's gay" announcement, that "a writer confident in her powers wouldn't feel the need to announce details like this," Neil Gaiman - yes, that Neil Gaiman - writes:

All that tells us is that Ross Douthat doesn't write fiction.

(Ouch.)

You always wind up knowing more about your characters than you can get onto the page. Pages are finite, and the story isn't about giving you all the information about everyone in it any more than life is. Things the author knows about characters (or at least, strongly suspects -- it's never really real until it hits the page, because the process of writing is also a process of discovery) that don't make it onto the page could include the characters' backstory, what they like to eat, the toothpaste they use, what happens to them after the story is over or before it began, and what they do in bed. That something didn't turn up in the books just means it didn't make it onto the page or wasn't relevant to the story. (Or even, it made it in and the author cut that scene out because it didn't work. One of my favourite scenes in Anansi Boys went because it made the chapter work better when it was gone.)

(I remember being astonished when I learned a few years ago, from an obituary, that two teachers I'd had as a child were a same-sex couple. Mostly astonished because at the age where they taught me, I didn't imagine that teachers had romantic lives, or were even entirely human; and learning that they were a pair reconfigured everything I knew about them, which wasn't very much.)

Neverwhere has two gay characters who are Out, as far as the book is concerned, and one major character who is gay but it isn't mentioned, simply because that character was one of many people in that book who don't have any sexual or romantic entanglements during the story. So it's irrelevant.

... And, truth to tell, sexuality tends to be such a minor thing, if you have several hundred characters running around in your head. You know more than you've written. One of the characters in Wall in Stardust, for example, is not what he is pretending to be in a way that has nothing at all to do with sex, although the clues are all there in the book, but if I don't do another story set in Wall you'll never find out who he is, or even why he's interesting.

I think the crucial question here is whether Dumbledore being gay is just a "a minor thing," just one of many quirks that the reader doesn't need to know while reading the books but might be interested to discover after the fact - or, as with Gaiman's two lesbian teachers, whether it's something that "reconfigures" everything we thought we knew about the Hogwarts Headmaster. I would submit that it's closer to the latter than to the former, given the role Dumbledore plays in the saga and the significance of his varied relationships to all the other players in the story; it isn't quite the equivalent of Rowling never giving the reader any clue that Snape was in love with Lily Potter, only to mention it in passing at a public appearance in 2009, but it's closer to that sort of thing than to, say, a piece of interesting trivia about how Minerva McGonagall once dated a guy from Slytherin. I'm not saying that every piece of information about every character needs to be spilled out on the page; I'm not even saying that one should be able to know, from reading the books, that Dumbledore is homosexual. I'm just saying that a writer with confidence in her powers would write that sort of important detail into the story in such a way, whether explicit or implicit, that she didn't feel the need to explain it after the books came out. (I'm trying to picture Melville patiently explaining to the Illustrated London News that yes, Claggart did have a thing for Billy Budd - or Proust telling a Paris audience: "Don't you get it? The narrator's gay! Albertine's a guy!")

But the larger problem is that by saying that Dumbledore's gay, Rowling opens up a whole host of questions that are deadly to her world-building exercise. The wizarding world only holds together so long as the reader accepts that it's a cracked-mirror version of our world, rather than an internally consistent sub-creation. Thus, for instance, it isn't odd that a society so invested in matters supernatural, in which people constantly brush up against various manifestations of the afterlife, lacks any religion at all - not because, pace Christopher Hitchens, Rowling wants to suggest that a society can be moral without God, but because keeping organized religion out of it lets her use the wizarding world as a Narnia-style commentary (though not to nearly the same degree) on theological matters in our own. And similarly, it isn't odd that the wizarding world doesn't seem to contain any patterns of sexual behavior except strict celibacy, high school crushes, and lifelong monogamy, because Rowling has created a world for young readers in which those sort of adult issues are handled obliquely and/or allegorically. (To steal an example from Mark Shea, her treatment of Remus Lupin's werewolf issues screams "AIDS metaphor.") But the instant you say "Dumbledore's gay," you open yourself up to critiques like this one:

I had always given the Potter books a pass on the lack of gay characters because, especially at first, they were intended for little kids. But particularly with the appearance of the long, violent later books, Rowling allowed her witches and wizards to grow up, to get zits and begin romances, to kill and die. It seemed odd that not even a minor student character at Hogwarts was gay, especially since Rowling was so p.c. about making her magical creatures of different races and species, incomes, national origins, and developmental abilities. In a typical passage, the briefly mentioned Blaise Zabini is described as "a tall black boy with high cheekbones and long, slanting eyes." Would it have been so difficult to write in a line in which Zabini takes the exquisitely named Justin Finch-Fletchley to the Yule Ball?

A week ago, I would have called this somewhat silly, but now it seems like a much fairer question - and one that breeds other questions, which the decidedly un-erotic nature of the Potter books had kept safely offstage. What's the wizarding world's take on sexual morality? Has there been a wizarding world sexual revolution? If not, why not? What do wizards use for birth control? Are all gay wizards in the closet? Why does there seem to be no premarital sex at Hogwarts? And so on and so forth. (The same slew of questions, on a different front, would have been provoked if she'd suddenly announced that Snape was Jewish.) The next thing you know, you're pointing out that the wizarding economy doesn't really make much sense, either ... and suddenly, the magic starts to leak away.

Comments (73)

I think you're giving this issue a level of importance it does not deserve. The context of Rowling's statement was in response to a question from a femal reader about whether Dumbledore ever fell in love. She responded to the question. It's not like she showed up at the event planning to make a big announcement. You can argue that an author shouldn't talk about any details of her characters' lives that are not in the text (I agree with this -- once the piece is puclished, the author should be close to irrelevant). But if she's going to give off the cuff responses to questions like this, shouldn't she be honest?

In any event, Dumbledore's sexuality doesn't play a material role in the story. His obsession with Gindelwald's ideas perfectly explains his behavior without him also being obsesseed with Gindelwald. So whether he fell in love with a future dark lord, a Hufflepuff girl, a muggle or a centaur as a youngster -- or whether he is weirdly asexual -- is an interesting bit of trivia, but that's about it.

Sorry for the myriad typos.

Yeah, I'm going to have to go with Niel's assessment that, for whatever reason, Dumbledore's sexual-orientation wasn't something that could be fit into the story without harming it, rather than your belief that she didn't have confidence in her ability to work it in.

It could be just as easily argued that not including that information indicates that the is confident enough in what she's written that a potentially salient fact about a major character can be omitted without any significant damage to the story.

Gosh, I've got a totally different perspective. Dumbledore's sexuality wasn't explicit in "Deathly Hallows" but it drove an important plot point and it was there if you read attentively.

Here's a passage from a letter from a teenage Dumbledore to Gellert Grindelwald (DH, pg. 357):

"This was your mistake at Durmstrang! But I do not complain, because if you had not been expelled, we would never have met."

Kind of mushy from one straight guy to another, no? And note that Dumbledore is excusing something(s) really awful that Grindelwald has done- that's what people do when they are infatuated.

Plus, another big point of "Deathly Hallows" was the revelation that Dumbledore should not be idolized, that though on the side of good he was also deeply morally compromised, with a penchant for secrecy and lies (as well as forcing other people to make sacrifices for the greater good). To my way of thinking, the secrecy and lies aspect is very much the psychology of the closet. I'd bet 500 galleons that DD was closeted.

The oddest thing about Rowling's revelation is that now, looking back at the book, the sole gay relationship in the book killed an innocent girl (Dumbledore's sister) and caused a devastating world war! And there's nothing in the book about it being a closet problem.

Worse, it's the only sexual relationship in the book (except for the story of Voldemort's hex-induced deception/conception, which leads the evil spawn and the next war)--that causes anything bad!

I think Rowling has exposed herself as a hater.

Dumbledore's homosexuality doesn't break (to really screw up the metaphor) the cracked-mirror world, though. Our knowledge about Dumbledore (and the rest of the Wizarding world) inside the books is deliberately filtered through Harry's viewpoint, and Dumbledore himself is left deliberately mysterious. We find out just enough about his past in the final book to humanize him to Harry, and little enough that Harry has to find a way to cope with his relationship with Dumbledore through love rather than through reason. He needs to understand just enough about Dumbledore to know that Dumbledore was a flawed guy who was just doing his best. At the same time, Rowling needs to know detailed information about Dumbledore's actual past in order to make the portions of his life that we see believable. Having Harry find out about his gayness would be a distraction from the narrative, not because it breaks the world but because it's irrelevant to Harry's situation.

The other thing about Dumbledore's relationship to the world is that Dumbledore is really the only adult in the story. It's a child-world populated by children and child-adults (Fudge as Minister of Magic is perhaps the clearest illustration of this). Dumbledore is an actual adult who relates to the child-world in two key ways -- by taking joy in some of the pleasurable aspects of living in a child world (his fondness for candy, for instance) much in the way a parent might enjoy taking kids to Disneyland; and by attempting to guide the morally and psychologically immature adults around him through the complex world that they've created but which they have trouble handling. It's significant that the most powerful and important wizard is the headmaster of a school rather than a powerful government official (and that the final showdown happens on Hogwarts grounds) -- symbolically he's the headmaster of the whole wizarding world, including Voldemort himself. It makes sense that homosexuality and more overt sexualities than the high-school crushes and long term monogamy you discuss don't get dealt with (and that the episode of the magical protection of the girls dormitory from boys is left to stand pretty much by itself for the sexual component of the gender roles revolution), but that Dumbledore's background psychology includes them -- homosexuality is (unfortunately) not really a significant part of the world of childhood except as a bogeyman for much of the population and as a cause of distress for the kids who will come out in college.

So Rowling doesn't deal explicitly with homosexuality in the books themselves for an assortment of structural and storytelling reasons, but in the real world she's free to say what she likes. She also doesn't tell us much about what happens to Harry et al in adulthood for structural storytelling reasons (one of which is because we need Harry to grow into a real adult, but letting him do so would break the child-world) but she herself knows. She has even revealed a lot of that information outside of the books: Harry becomes head of the Auror dept., Ginny plays professional Quidditch and then writes for the Prophet, Ron works in the Joke Shop, Hermione fights for the rights of magical creatures, etc.

Ultimately, dealing with Dumbledore's homosexuality _in_ the books would break the cracked-mirror world because our omnicient narrator takes the child-adult perspective, but revealing the information outside of the books doesn't break it because Dumbledore is an actual adult and out here in the adult world it makes sense. Well, it makes sense to some of us, anyway :)

I don't know the exact date of Dumbledore's letter to Gindelwald, but it's pretty clearly pre-WWI. Take a look at correspondence between straight men in that era and you'll see significantly more sincere expressions of affection than in our current era. Among young men in the intellectual class, you'll also see significantly more passion for ideas. The two are often linked. Look at Tolkien's correspondence with the other members of his TCBS club. They sound a lot like Dumbledore's letter to Grindelwald.

I agree with Led on this one. And ask another question: if JK had said that Dumbledore had had some young love for, say, Minerva (or any other female character, for that matter), would Ross be complaining? I doubt it. It's a pure double standard.

I think the sub-text of Rowling's books is a serious meditation and lesson for children (and everybody else) on love and death, and this is what makes them significant. In this light, Dumbledore's sexuality is important because it sheds light on his relationship with Gindelwald-- it's love. But the problem Rowlings had to deal with is that explicitly acknowledging that it's homosexual love would complicate and obscure the idea that she's trying to teach-- that love doesn't always bring out the best in people. I think she made the right choice, but one can argue either way. In any case, it's not an incidental matter.

No offense to Gaiman, but he's missing the point. He's absolutely right, of course, that a writer will have thousands of details in her head that never make it into the final draft. But this is an entirely different question from whether the author has any control over the meaning of the words after they've been written. Ultimately, it shouldn't matter to the reader what you INTENDED, or what you thought while you were writing it. What matters is what you actually wrote, and the ability of the reader to draw her own conclusions and fill in the gaps with her own imagination.

I've written enough unpublished fiction to understand that it would be immensely flattering to have thousands of people clamoring for more details. And there's nothing inherently wrong with an author explaining what she intended to say or sharing her own opinion about the characters and events in the book. But she really ought to make it clear it that readers can and should draw their own conclusions about what it all means, and their conclusions are no less valid than her own.

The author is dead, even if she's still giving interviews.

I still think Ross is reaching way too far on this one, and encourage him again to check out this link:

http://www.bloomsbury.com/harrypotter/content.asp?sec=3&sec2=1

Rowling has a lot of backstory and poststory that didn't make it into the books, the fans love to hear about it, and she's willing to tell it. That's pretty much it. Questions like "What was Dudley's 'worst memory' during the Dementor attack" are harmless, and Rowling's answer is actually a little revealing of what she saw happening to Dudley during the series. (Whether you like an artist's viewpoint explained to you is probably a matter of taste, but some do).

The "I always saw Dumbledore as gay" comment would only be remarkable if it (1) was inconsistent with the characterization that we saw or (2) was essential to the character, but omitted. I don't think either is true. Dumbledore's evasion of Harry's question about what he saw in the Mirror of Erised, his overall sense of loneliness and isolation, the discomfort that a lot of wizards and witches have with him but can't or won't explain to Harry, and his lifetime bachelorhood are all consistent with him being gay, but none of them require it. Given that we don't have a glimpse of the romantic behavior of any of the teachers other than Hagrid and Snape, it's not surprising that we never learned whether Dumbledore was gay or still nursing a long lost crush on James Potter's mother.

(A more interesting question might be whether Voldemort, Wormtail, and/or Sirius are gay, and what it would say about their characters.)

There's a mild fictional problem, in that the whole "Dumbledore once had a spot of sympathy for wizards-uber-alles ideas" revelation is a bit weaker if it's more that Dumbledoor did like most of us do and gave lots more credit to ideas his crush had than he would have otherwise.

Having defended Ross from Gaiman's charge, I do still think Ross is overreacting. Most people of a liberal bent simply aren't terribly fussed about a person being gay, and assign this as a matter of much less importance than Ross does.

That Rowling chose to spell out her intentions in public doesn't change the fact that the actual books deal with the subject in an oblique manner. Fifty years from now, Rowling's comments will only be remembered by old folks, while children will likely still be reading and enjoying the books oblivious to the headmaster's orientation.

You wrote: "Thus, for instance, it isn't odd that a society so invested in matters supernatural, in which people constantly brush up against various manifestations of the afterlife, lacks any religion at all"

Well, I think Ursula Le Guin and Philip Pullman might have a whole mountain of bones to pick with you on that point.

I think her statement is a big deal, because it again shows that Rowling does not think through big things on her tolerance and diversity messages.

The thing she failed to think through about Gay Dumbledore is what I said above: his relationship--the one gay relationship we know of--plunged the world into war and killed his sister.

Another big thing she failed to think through was the the Voldemort-Hitler thread throughout the books. Wizards really ARE better than muggles. Muggles are lesser beings (and wizarding is even genetic, per other comments she's made).

We can be glad (I think) that Dumbledore didn't have a special fondness for Tom Riddle when he met him at the orphanage, and we can be glad that there was no more undefeatable wand backstory. But beyond that? I'm not sure that either Gay Dumbledore or VoldeHitler really work.

The thing she failed to think through about Gay Dumbledore is what I said above: his relationship--the one gay relationship we know of--plunged the world into war and killed his sister.

I think this is an over reaction. First, you can't blame Dumbledore for Grindelwald's later actions. Grindelwald was what he was before he met Dumbledore and he would've done the same thing had he never met Dumbledore. Second, with respect to the sister, might his attraction have contributed to his blindness about Grindelwald's evil plans? Maybe. But Dumbledore attributes his mistakes to a desire for power. Unless Dumbledore was lying (again) -- and I suggest that think lying is not possible in the quasi-heaven/purgatory of King's Cross -- we have to believe him. Lastly, the negative consequences of Dumbledore's unrequited love are vastly outweighed from a narrative point of view by consequences of the unrequited hetero love of Voldemort's mother for his father. Given that context, and the fact that the latter is made explicit in the books while the former is at most hinted at, it would be perverse (in my view) to draw some conclusion about homosexuality in general from the Dumbledore/Grindelwald situation.

It wasn't in the story because it doesn't matter.

It's just the same as if she thought that Harry Potter got an erection whenever he saw a glimpse of a naked female thigh. Or if she thought that Mrs Sprout liked guys to be well hung.

The story's not about that, they might be interesting details to mention when questioned, but they certainly don't matter as far as the story is concerned.

Interesting.

You assumed Neil's teachers were women. I had assumed they were men, perhaps because I believe he was schooled in England and I picture more male teachers, a la "The Wall," than we have in the US.

Neil never reveled a gender.

It's puerile for a writer to reveal more than he or she put on the paper. Let readers argue over what exactly you meant.

The entire idea of a Q&A session is for fans to ask writers questions about their stories, much like a behind-the-scenes special for a movie.

And don't put too much emphasis on being gay. It's not like I preface every post of my blog with "just so you know, I am gay, because it is really important to know as I talk about what I had for breakfast."

Dumbledore's sexual attraction for Grindelwald was not important, and bringing up that issue can only have detracted from the story.

Harry: "Dumbledore was gay?"

Hermione: "Sure was, says so right here."

Harry: "Well, it's not important. What's important was the kind of person he was. Now we have to seek out another horcrux..."

Reader: "was that really necessary?"

Heidi-
Isn't it odd that a male will jump to the conclusion that a homosexual couple will most likely be females? That says something about his view on homosexual couples...

I want to love Rowling for this, but I have to agree with Steve Sailer. It seems odd to start throwing in, oh, by the way, so and so is this, that, or the other thing. Write it or don't write it, but don't go back and start shoving in backstory.

Just to bring a different perspective, I think you've made a good point in that the marketing machine that is Harry Potterdom does seem to have a lot of internal conflict as to where the publishers wanted the books to go, where the producers want the movies to hit, and where the writer, deep down, in her heart of hearts wants to make a statement about people who are close to her.

I think bringing Dumbledore out of the closet now is probably the only time she could have done it. HP is a corporately-owned brand image, and it has been heavily controlled.

Rowling seems to have purposefully kept the books out of modern politics by reflecting humanistic truths in an epic tradition.

The HP world is a recall back to the height of English power in the world, perhaps as a reflection of the traditions the English still uphold, even while their economy now sags and Gordon Brown gets heavy scrutiny.

By outing Dumbledore as an aside, that's likely Rowling saying "here's my personal viewpoint, and I'm saying it for all the speculation so that people will feel comfortable admitting my character is gay so as to admit freely that I think gay role models are perfectly alright and in fact, some of them, the ones like Dumbledore, are uniquely wonderful."

You just have to look at it from a "present-tense historical perspective" in that she's a real life person, living outside the sphere of the HP juggernaut. In some strange ways, HP is like the giant she keeps in the forest that she cannot quite control herself.

Sorry the NG obsessors are showing their tendancies with you thrown over a pool table.

Cheers!

Ted Martin: "if JK had said that Dumbledore had had some young love for, say, Minerva (or any other female character, for that matter), would Ross be complaining? I doubt it. It's a pure double standard."

This is exactly right. Ross's reaction says far more about Ross than it does about Rowling.

I guess maybe you need to explain why they put so much effort into celebrating Christmas at Hogwarts if she was segregating her world from religion. They certainly weren't at any pains to acquaint the student with secular muggle costoms - as a matter of fact, Mr. Weasley is considered to be extremely eccentic for being interested in them.

Sounds as if the wizards thought the birth of Jesus was kind of a big deal, doesn't it? She certainly didn't show them celebrating Chanukah.

Well, the absence of Christmas would be pretty noteworthy in these "war on Christmas" times, wouldn't it? It would be understood as an explicit position against religion. It's clear that Rowling wanted to avoid taking any explicit position on religion so her story and themes would not be burdened with all implications, distractions and debates associated with religion, at least until the story was complete.

Does it really matter if JKR says Dumbledore is gay?

I mean if we like a book than we normally make up our own background stories.

To me Dumbledore was a strait male that had his ups and downs in life and couldn’t really love someone because of all the lies and gilt he had.

That’s my story of him and it isn’t going to change. If the author wants to tell what she always thought of Dumbledore than she has that right but that doesn’t change my picture of her story?
So it shouldn’t matter if you are strait, gay, lesbian, or an alien. Make the story you own.
In my mind he is strait in yours he is gay. So what it’s a book?

I do wonder if those who don't think Rowling should have mentioned this somewhere in the thousands of pages of books have any problem with the time given to the Bill/Fleur romance and wedding, or the out-of-nowhere Tonks/Remus relationship, not to mention Ron/Hermione and Harry/Cho and Harry/Ginny obviously.

...You think there weren't any hints in the books? I knew Dumbledore was gay the moment Grindelwald was mentioned and the backstory was brought up (especially with Rita Skeeter's sly little comments); all it takes to see that gay subtext, imho, is not assuming by default that everyone is straight unless stated otherwise. Which unfortunately is a heteronormative thing.


Also, maybe this is just me, but I'm glad she felt like it wasn't something that needed to revolutionize things. People don't, normally, define themselves by their sexuality, especially after their angsty teenage years. *g* Why would old Dumbledore feel the need to explain that he's gay? Why would this have to be spelled out? Any more than that he'd need to explain that he's straight if it's not relevant to the plot? Do we need to know about his sex life, or say, do we need to know anything about whether Minerva likes men, women, or cats?


I'm actually a little saddened that you seem to think that him being gay changes or impacts his interactions with Harry in a different light; is it any less appropriate than being alone with Minerva (assuming she's straight) or considering her a leader? His being gay *doesn't* by essence sexualize a relationship any more than it would if Dumbledore was a straight old woman. He's still the mentor, and the exact same person he was before. I'm not sure why this should change for anyone.

A great many things are not mentioned the stories. Those that are are the ones that directly impinge on Harry’s life during the story. The interesting thing is that all the time it wasn’t mentioned everyone assumed he was strait even though that was not explicitly mentioned
If you really want something to get fussy about J.K. also mentioned that Hagrid never married because of the lack of female giants. Why should this matter as he was himself the product of a mixed species relationship.

The thing she failed to think through about Gay Dumbledore is what I said above: his relationship--the one gay relationship we know of--plunged the world into war and killed his sister.

While Severeus Snape and James Potter are such splendid poster boys for heterosexist patriarchy? One creepy little stalker and an arrogant jock, more like.

The interesting thing is that all the time it wasn’t mentioned everyone assumed he was strait even though that was not explicitly mentioned

Well, isn't it funny the assumptions people bring to the table? Looking at the cover of my copy of A Wizard of Earthsea, I find it rather amusing that the hero is depicted as the standard issue blonde, blue-eyed faintly Nordic heroic fantasy hero. When, even on a superficial reading of the first chapter, Ged is not only none of the above but with the benefit of a few years it becomes pretty obvious that LeGuin knew what she was doing.

So Rowling didn't ignore religion, she explicitly included a specific religion, but she did it because not including religion in a book is an explicit renunciation of religion, so she only did it to send a signal that she wasn't renouncing religion, so it wasn't really there?

Has anyone here ever actually read the british boy's school books Rowling is riffing on here? Because if you have, this is really disingenuous, and if you haven't, perhaps before deconstructing the books you should.

Craig: Of course, unlike with whiteness, where whites are a minority on a planetary scale (and blond, blue-eyed people are a minority even of whites), heterosexuality really is a default norm. Whether or not one makes value judgments about it, that is simply statistically true.

Craig: my point about Dumbledore-Grindenwald wasn't that Rowling really hates gays and is trying to make them look bad versus straights. It was that I don't think Rowling thought through the whole Gay Dumbledore thing.

If she had thought it through, she would have done it completely differently. I'd have made Kingsley Shacklebolt the gay character, and I'd have made his relationship healthly, unlike the bizarre Dumbledore-Grindenwald relationship. (Shacklebolt becomes the Minister of Magic after the 7th book.) The only issue here is that Shacklebolt's the main black character, and she's already set him up as an inspirational figure; it may be too much to make him the great gay black leader unless you go all the way and also make him blind and with bad allergies.

To me, this all suggests that Rowling did not really make Dumbledore gay in the books, because if she wanted a character to be gay she would have made not made the only gay relationship bizarre and sick. She would have pulled a Shacklebolt.

I linked to your column from Neil Gaiman's site, rather than the reverse and was interested to read what you had to say in follow up.

My view is that the disclosure is very in keeping with the books themselves both in how sexuality is approached as well as how relationships are approached.

Dumbledore was monogamous--albeit celibate. He was in love with Grindelwald, and he did not fall in love with anyone else.

The only talk of "snogging" etc. occurs between the three friends about people directly in their lives (and with James later about Teddy of course). The only mention of other students dating occurs with relation to the Yule ball.

That none of the three main characters are gay, means discussion of it among them--and so in the text which is largely from Harry's point of view--is a moot point.

There has been a certain amount of speculation that Sirius was in love with either James Potter (unrequited) or with Remus Lupin (requited until Sirius' death). If Rowling were to casually reveal that the latter were true, to my mind that would be detrimental to the integrity of her universe, as it would mean there was yet another critical area in which Harry had been deceived. If she were to reveal that Sirius had been in love with James (a triangle reminiscent of that in "Cat on a Hot Tin Roof), in my view, there would be no impact. The love would have been unrequited, and unlike in Williams's work did not have any negative impact on the strength of the friendships.

By disclosing it as casually as she did, Rowling highlights that in her universe being gay, like being black, or being female, is a non-issue. Her universe contains other issues that are important: discrimination against Muggleborns, against other magical creatures.

In my personal opinion, like Gaiman says, the view of the teachers at Hogwarts will be reconfigured as more personal detail about them is shared by Rowling. However, Harry and Ron and Hermione are adults by the end of the series. It's appropriate that they, like all of us as we grow into adults, learn that our teachers and mentors are after all people with lives of their own.

No matter what Jk Rowling decides to tell us about certian characters i still stand by her. I loved all the harry potter books before and i still love them now and i still read them to my daughter and when i have a son i will read harry potter to him...all im saying is who cares that dumbledore is gay she never wrote in her books what he was doing behind closed doors! and if thats someones preferance who cares its not you and maybe its not what you approve of but thats life! Keep on writing JK!!! ill buy your books bc i love the characters you create; gay, straight, black, white doesnt matter to me! A good book is a good book!

tom--just as a note--we have no idea that the only gay relationship in the books is Dumbledore/Grindelwald. Rather it is the only one that Rowling has spoken on.

Any conclusions about the Rowling's or her universe's views on sexuality from this limited statement by her are necessarily then of very limited accuracy.

I have read fanfiction in which George is gay, Remus, Sirius, McGonagall, Draco, Hermione, and the list goes on.

Rowlings' works are asexual really, as they are areligious. Instead she focuses on other parallel issues such as muggleborns and house-elves to communicate Rowling's own apparent ideology that a person's nature or genes does not dictate anything negative or positive about themselves. And as well, with Dobby, that an individual may choose to live differently based upon their own personality rather than being dictated to by their genes.

I think it's a wonderful revelation that Dumbledore is gay. It proves that you cannot always assume that powerful, fictional characters will always be straight. For me, it never crossed my mind that Dumbledore was gay. I never really associated him with any sexual orientation. It was just one of those things that you never really thought about because you were into the plot much more than the minor details such as sexual orientation.

Also, just a quick response to an above comment that presented the idea that their might be a mini Lord Voldermort running around in the near future... I think that, if this were a serious comment, the likelyhood of that happening is very slim to none considering that J. K. Rowling has identified that Voldermort did not love and even if he had loved someone, namely Bellatrix Lestrange, their child wouldn't have survived since she was killed (I believe) by Molly Weasley. Even if she wasn't killed, her child would not be born for Bellatrix would most likely be placed into Azkaban. But if this namely was a joke, then I just rammbled on about nothing. I took it as a serious comment though.

True, but making Dumbledore in love with Grindelwald changes the basis of his motivations from what is said in the book, I think. Or at least modifies them. And so it's a bit of a retcon, if you will, which affects the characterization.

Also, it kind of also falls into the same trap of many of those online HP jr. authors- it makes it so that two men can only be strongly affected by each other and possess such a personal relationship- if they're gay. And that's kind of lazy, I think. "Why are Frodo and Sam so close? They must be gay. What about Christ and the Apostles? David and the other guy?"

And as for mini-Voldemorts, I think Rowling's track record in depicting the Slytherin is appalling. She claims that they have good in them, yet we never see a single good Slytherin student who wasn't an adult, and in the epilogue, it's hinted that the house still has a negative reputation. I think if the Wizarding world is Europe, the Slytherin would be the segregated immigrant underclass. Except they're rich and powerful.

Michelle--I think your comment about Gay George et al., only goes to show how strange Rowling's gaying of Dumbledore was. Let's gay them all!

I think that Rowling took a feature of her books--that most characters has NO discussed sex lives because that would distract from the story--and used it restrospectively to insert a gay gene into Dumbledore. She has now distracted from the story.

My bigger point is that if she had really been plotting the story AT ALL to include a gay relationship, she wouldn't have chosen Dumbledore-Grindenwald as the one. She'd have made the relationship positive. And if she's going to come out next and say there were loads more gay relationships we didn't hear about, then she's in the fan fiction world too.

Re: Looking at the cover of my copy of A Wizard of Earthsea, I find it rather amusing that the hero is depicted as the standard issue blonde, blue-eyed faintly Nordic heroic fantasy hero. When, even on a superficial reading of the first chapter, Ged is not only none of the above but with the benefit of a few years it becomes pretty obvious that LeGuin knew what she was doing.

Cover artists don't always bother to read the books they are hired for, not even superficially. See Stephen Donaldson's just published "Fatal Revenant". The character depicted on the cover, and the staff he holds, and even the tree behind him, are described in meticulous detail in the book (the staff is central to the book, the tree is also significant), but the cover artist simply portrays a generic wizardly looking fellow, which the character isn't even, holding a generic staff in front of a generic dead tree, as if he had a bunch of unused Saruman studies left over from a time when he hoped to do "Lord of the Rings" covers and tossed one off for this book.

I'm a gay man who was mildly miffed that Rowling didn't have a single Hogwarts student turn out to be gay. But I did wonder why all of the teachers seemed to be unmarried; we didn't even know WHERE they slept, much less WHO they slept with! I did suspect Minerva of being a lesbian, however. It doesn't bother me that Rowling left out so many details; part of the fun of the books is figuring out what the backstories are.

I was blown away when Rowling introduced the concept of ultra-prejudiced wizards at the Quidditch World Cup -- in a children's book? Wow! A logical subsequent theme would be to hint at the dark side of sex, but I didn't expect it to happen -- this is a children's book! But it did happen, without explicitly mentioning the terror of rape, as Hermoine is subjected to torture and possibly getting bitten by the evil werewolf near the end of the story.

For me, it was fun to try to find little in-jokes and hints here and there in the series. Part of my getting hooked on the books was the line in Book 1 about how every [wizarding] schoolchild knows Harry's name -- it implies that Rowling had big plans for her books from the start. When I read that line I burst out laughing.

And in Deathly Hallows there are two scenes mentioning Harry being naked: are these hints to Daniel Radcliffe that, fresh from his nude success in Equus, there's a chance for him to get naked in Movie 7? If he does, I'll be first in line at the multiplex!

I must disagree that an unrequited love of Sirius for James would have no significant impact on the story. It would have made Sirius's relationship with Harry extremely creepy, since it isn't always clear that Sirius really understands on an emotional level that Harry isn't James.

There is so much subtext-sex (so to speak!) in the HP series, you could almost write a book on it. It is all innuendo, pandering, and between-the-lines sniggering. (Percy in Book 2--what did Ginny catch him at?; "That thing you've been dreading" in Book 4--to a pubescent girl--the graveyard scene between Harry & Voldemort; Ron's "Uranus" joke; Harry's dreams about Ginny, etc, etc. I think the purpose of Dumbledore's outing was 1) to cement her multicultural ties (and that's fine) and 2) to keep herself out front in the spotlight--something the "famously reticent" author seems to crave.

never giving the reader any clue that Snape was in love with Lily Potter

I thought that this was clear ever since we saw "Snape's worst memory". It wasn't the first or last time that James tormented him, so what made it the worst? That he was humiliated in front of Lily.

Re: "I thought that this was clear ever since we saw "Snape's worst memory". It wasn't the first or last time that James tormented him, so what made it the worst? That he was humiliated in front of Lily."

I think there are a lot of clues that Snape is in love with Lily, if you read the books carefully. This, however, was not one of them. That memory was his worst not because he was humiliated but because he called Lily a mudblood, which ended their friendship.

Well, I'm not convinced Dumbledore was conceived as or was written as a gay character in the early books - though I don't think it was simply thought up by Rowling after the series was over, either. I think the reason for retconning Dumbledore later on is that Rowling is genuflecting to the zeitgeist.

As posters here have mentioned, some people were upset or disappointed that there wasn't a gay major character in the books. I imagine that point was made in a fairly large subset of the fan mail she received and she probably took it to heart. She's British, and, as she's mentioned, the books are British. So it isn't surprising. There's a bit of a cottage industry in the field of history these days to go back an "discover" the gayness of historical figures (funny how it often only involves figures who are, on balance, viewed positively).

I don't think it's bad Dumbledore was "outted," but I think it was unnecessary. And it is a bit disappointing folks read the books with an eye for apportionment.

Hand of Vecna: your guess may fit the best. Years of questions and emails about the lack of gay characters could have been what drove this.

To help society move forward, we should all agree that both Dumbledore and President Lincoln were gay. Very gay. Lincoln too wore long flowing robes everywhere and always 'joked' to Secretary Seward about his invincible wand.

Also, I like to think of Dumbledore as Filipino, so Rowling should agree that he was Filipino. And that he loved New Order.

Fanfiction writers have been asking those same questions for years, and having great fun with the answers. Although also from a fanfiction perspective, I do want her to stop telling us stuff. She is spoiling our fun!

So much so, in fact, that I am ignoring her post-DH interview comments. Except the Dumbledore thing. Because I like it. So there.

Ross, you're being a total turd about this, and I say this affectionately. Being gay in Rowling's world is obviously not as political as it is in your sphere. Talking about gay characters in no way encourages questions about, say, the wizard economy, unless you think being gay is something of a political statement. Rowling doesn't. Come now Ross, it's about love; it's about love.

It ceases to be about love when it nearly results in the enslavement of the entire non-wizard world.

Quietus: That's from First Corinthians, right?

I don't think Rowland has the authority to just say that Dumbledore is gay and make it so. As someone has already said, once the book is in print the author is dead, even if she is still giving interviews. She can tell us that Dumbledore is gay, and that he is a Martian, and whatever else she wants, but it doesn't make him so. He is only gay if there is something within the text that makes him gay, because the only world in which he exists is the world of the text. Comments made outside of the text, in the real world arena of interviews and Q&A, can not affect people inside of the book. A published book is a sealed sphere; its various lights and characters and events bounce around inside and effect one another, and we as readers sit outside and look in at them. We, and JKR, are powerless to reach inside that sphere once it is sealed and effect changes on the things it contains.

who cares?

From here:

Another awfully good British author, the late Douglas Adams of the successful Hitchhikers’ Guide to the Galaxy series, confronted a comparable question a few years back. One of his fans asked about the kind of computer one of his characters used. He replied, in part:

“The book is a work of fiction. It’s a sequence of words arranged to unfold a story in a reader’s mind. There is no such actual, real person as Arthur Dent. He has no existence outside the sequence of words designed to create an idea of this imaginary person in people’s minds. There is no objective real world I am describing, or which I can enter, and pick up his computer, look at it and tell you what model it is, or turn it over and read off its serial number for you. It doesn’t exist.”

I think people are wrong, sexuality does matter because it shapes the dynamics of the interactions in the book. Snape's love for Lilly is an example. To minimize Dumbledore's affections and not Snape's, shows peoples own internal struggle with idea of homosexuality.

Re Connor: "I don't think Rowland has the authority to just say that Dumbledore is gay and make it so".

Well, good. Because that's not what she *did*!

What Rowland did say was that _she_ always saw DD as gay. I.e. that she developed his character with that (and numerous other) thoughts in mind.

And that's why it doesn't matter _to the reader_: does DD act the he acts because he's gay, or because he has a beard, or because of the era in which he was born? He does what he does, but _for the author_ it's important in order to keep his character consistent.

I would also observe that in and around British boarding schools, the question whether a teacher is gay or not is not uncommon. And the answer is almost always the same as behind the issues with gay people in the military or in the clergy: if they act on their orientation, IT DOES NOT MATTER. And nowhere in the HP universe do we see DD act in a way that could not be explained differently (e.g. with the sound observation made above that prior to about 1930 or so people did express themselves differently from today). So it doesn't matter... unless you're an author of fiction (unlike Ross, as Gaiman notes).

Malc: remember, Rowling didn't just say she 'saw' Dumbledore as gay; she said she had the script for the upcoming movie changed and told the director he was gay.

And in response to everyone who says it doesn't matter. Of course it doesn't, unless the books matter.

Imagine if she'd said "I always thought Dumbledore was a hermaphroditic vegan who opposed climate change and wanted you to spay/neuter your dog/cat".

James Kabala writes: "Of course, unlike with whiteness, where whites are a minority on a planetary scale (and blond, blue-eyed people are a minority even of whites), heterosexuality really is a default norm. Whether or not one makes value judgments about it, that is simply statistically true."

It's also true of right-handedness, and is a pointless observation in both cases.

Rowling's "outing" of Dumbledore will, I hope, make thousands of conservative heads explode. That would make the world a better place. She has good instincts.

Fifty years from now American society will have completely moved on on this issue, and people will look back on the Repiglican bigots of this era as we now (well, most of us) look back on Bull Connors and Lester Maddox.

moe: No one's head is going to explode; Rowling's announcement just sounds like part of a "Very Special Episode" of Harry Potter.

tom writes: "Rowling's announcement just sounds like part of a "Very Special Episode" of Harry Potter."

To conservatives, sure. But for those of us who aren't stupid enough to equate homosexuality with child molestation (a la the episode of "Different Strokes" you're alluding to) her announcement just sounds like a minor detail.

And I know heads won't actually explode, but it really would make the world a better place.

I think we all need to acknowledge that if it weren’t for the fact that she said that a character was gay (and that it was a main, iconic character), 99% percent of the people who didn’t want to know wouldn’t.

She makes revelations about characters in interviews and such all the time! Was it headline news when she told the world that James Potter played Chaser on the school Quidditch Team? Or that Luna Lovegood became a magizooligist? No! The only people who know these things are the fans who care. If she had announced that Dumbledore had a thing for a female character, there wouldn’t be news stories, blogs, opinion pieces, etc. Nobody but the fans would know.

So feel free to complain about her revealing aspects of the characters after the books were finished, but she’s been doing it for years. The only reason most of you have noticed this time is because the news media has decided to make a big deal out of it.

moe: I was thinking of Blossom losing her virginity or kids experimenting with alchohol. You could even wiki Very Special Episode! It means something serious that helps us all learn an important lesson.

That's also why I think Rose is wrong: this isn't like James Potter being a Chaser or Dumbledore liking a woman because Dumbledore and the book's first Hitler (Grindenwald) having a gay relationship is (a) central to the entire history of the novels and (b) intended to make a statement about gays.

It was a dumb, ham-handed choice by Rowling, and that fact that she intended it to be for a good cause doesn't save it; it makes it even more Very Special.

You're overwrought, tom. Try a Soothing Spell.

(By the way, the "very special episode" phrase was first used for the "Different Strokes" episode where Gary Coleman's character was molested by Gordon Jump, and it has been a comedy staple ever since.)

tom: This, I think, is exactly why she kept it out of the books, because she knew it would likely strike a negative chord with many people. She kept the true nature of their relationship out for several reasons, I'm sure, but this was most likely one of them. She probably hadn't planned on ever telling anyone, knowing there would be reactions like yours.

I do agree with you that the only known homosexual relationship in the story being so... (Tragic? Destructive? Seriously fucked up?) does send a poor message. Which is why I'm glad she didn't make a point of it in the story itself. The fact that she revealed it after the story was finished is only in her attempt at full disclosure with her fans, which I completely appreciate.

"it's something that "reconfigures" everything we thought we knew about the Hogwarts Headmaster"

This says far far more about you than it does about this caracter and J.K. Rowling. To me, as a reader, this doesn't change anything he ever did or said and I'm at a loss to understand why people think it does. I'm not gay so maybe when you're gay, as the article you linked to would seem to indicate, your entire personality is defined by being gay. That's really sad.

Another thing to bear to mind is that these books are written from Harry's point of view not Dumbledore's. The only way we would hear about Dumbledore being gay is if he told Harry. Correct me if I'm wrong but it's maybe just a tiny little bit inappropriate for a teacher to discuss their sexuality with an underage student.
He may have also had one or two more important things to discuss with Harry. When talking to Harry about his parents death, Voldermort trying to kill him, that Harry was destined to save the
world etc etc... Dumbledore may have just forgot to mention that he prefers sex with men rather than women. The fact that it was never mentioned is meaningless and DOES NOT PROVE THAT HE WAS ASHAMED OF BEING GAY. McGonagall, or any other teacher, never ran up to Harry and said "Hey Harry guess what, I'm straight!!" Does that prove that those characters were ashamed of being straight? I don't think so.

As for your questions about sexual morality, birth control, students having sex, I can't speak to the intention of the writer and the publishers I was under the impression that these were childrens books. Maybe they felt it wasn't necessary to include a bunch of sex in the books.
If you want sex read something else.

The fact that Dumbledore wasn't involved with anyone, that we know of, also proves nothing. J.K. Rowling has spoken in interviews about how he doesn't have anyone to confide in because no one is his equal. If Grindelwald was the only one he ever felt was his equal maybe there was no one else he wanted to be with. You could certainly argue that makes him a bit of a snob but it doesn't prove he was ashamed of being gay.

Again, and I can't stress this enough, despite the fact that they are read and loved by many teens and adults THESE ARE CHILDREN'S BOOKS.
If you want something that explores the
characters' sexuality go read a book that does that. There are plenty out there.

I don't really care whether Dumbledore is gay, but how freaking cool is it that you got Neil Gaiman's attention.

I think that making Dumbledore a gayfer was a terrible mistake. Even though it made it clear in the end that Dumbledore has not only the idolized side, but the side he discourages people to pry into, this had no effect on what I had thought of him. Now I won't be able to read another Harry Potter book without completly tearing down my image of Dumbledore. Thanks alot.

...the sole gay relationship in the book killed an innocent girl (Dumbledore's sister) and caused a devastating world war!

No, it didn't. Grindelwald caused these things. Dumbledore's love for Grindelwald just made their impact more painful for Dumbledore.

Worse, it's the only sexual relationship in the book.

Firstly, it's not. There are lots of couples in the book, albeit most of them married, and any of the unmarried ones might or might not have been having sex (Hagrid travelling for three months with Olympia, Remus and Tonks, and what were Molly and Arthur up to staying out till all hours of the morning when they were a couple in school??) And for goodness sakes, all that snogging IS the kid's version of 'sexual relationships'. Harry's violently passionate feelings for Ginny, her kissing him goodbye 'like she had never kissed him before', all of these things are sexual, even if actual sex doesn't take place.

But actually that's all neither here nor there. The thing I really want to point out is that we do not even know if Dumbledore and Grindelwald had a sexual (or even romantic) relationship. We know that Albus fell in love with his friend, but Rowling made no mention of whether Grindelwald was gay, or (if he was) if he returned his friend's love. Based on what she said and what's in the book, there's no particular evidence that their relationship was or was not sexual.

If she had thought it through, she would have done it completely differently. I'd have made Kingsley Shacklebolt the gay character, and I'd have made his relationship healthly, unlike the bizarre Dumbledore-Grindenwald relationship.

She would have made...I'd have made...I think you Tom, like Ross, probably do not write fiction. Many authors have described the way a character can become so real to you that you begin to feel that you are simply telling their story, not creating it. Rowling said she had always seen him that way. That's who he was. In that sense, she can't make Shacklebolt gay - he either is or he isn't. Maybe he is.

Chosha: I didn't say it was the only sexual relationship in the books; I said it was the only one that caused bad things to happen, which is a totally different thing.

And as to whether the relationship did cause bad things to happen, I think Rowling said that Dumbledore's love for Grindenwald blinded him to Grindenwald's evil, or something like that.

And my biggest problem with Dumbledore isn't that he's always been gay and Rowling just didn't raise it in the story, It's that I think he wasn't gay (or straight!) and Rowling very awkwardly is making him gay now and making the object of his affection one of the 2 most powerful evil wizards ever.

I wouldn't have cared if Dumbledore was out in the books; I wouldn't have cared if Dumbledore and Bellatrix had a secret affair decades ago and that was revealed in the books as a central plot point. But her announcement that Dumbledore was gay and that his relationship with the Wizard Hitler clouded young Dumbeldore's judgment and helped lead Dumbledore into bad and dangerous beliefs about the weak and the muggles and may have led to the Wizard World War II(!), is just weird and fake and post-hoc.

It's funny the different perceptions people have. I've been reading Rowling interviews on Mugglenet and Leaky Cauldron for years now, and to me the comment came across as very genuine (that she had always seen him that way). What I think is also true is that she probably made a deliberate decision not to make direct reference to it in the books, maybe on the advice of her publisher, or maybe just because she'd already had to deal with the whole witchcraft/Satanism thing and didn't want to add to the mix with something else that incites stupid people.

Anyway, in the end I think you're focussing too much on a gay love = destruction theme that isn't there. It wasn't the love that caused any of that. And in the end none of that 'Dumbledore once had a stupid idea about ruling muggles' stuff is who Dumbledore is anyway. He's wise, funny and compassionate - and those are things I think of when I think of Dumbledore. This whole 'he's gay' furore is such a storm in a teacup. I was much more disturbed to read book 7 and find out that he was a tortured soul scared of his own desire for power, etc etc. Given how powerful he is purported to be throughout all the other books, that image jarred awkwardly against my inner concept of who Dumbledore was. Him being gay didn't, because it doesn't alter the core of his character.

And while you're worrying over the only gay love mentioned being one that turned sour, you might also want to consider that Dumbledore understood love better than any other character in the book - so much so that he was the key to Harry's understanding and eventual defeat of Voldemort. Dumbledore loved richly, indulgently, and had the romantic life of any of the older teachers been deemed worthy of a subplot, I'm sure we would have found him leaving behind his naive and painful first love and making a wonderful 'other half' to some lucky wizard.

Not that I've searched and searched, but no one seems to be asking the question my wife immediately did: Why did Rowling answer a question about whether Dumbledore had ever been in love by saying he was gay? It was a yes or no question. Gay people fall in love too, right?