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Ron Paul, Third-Party Candidate?

07 Nov 2007 12:48 pm

ronpaul2.jpg

Larison makes the case against it:

… as he keeps telling us, Ron Paul has no intention of running on a third party ticket or as an independent, and I think this is the right judgement. It is also entirely consistent with how Paul has campaigned to date.

Throughout the campaign, Paul has stated that his foreign policy views belong to the tradition of the Republican Party and that Bush Era interventionism is a departure from that tradition. He has made what I think is much more than a tactical appeal to Republican Party political fortunes, insisting that the GOP has to embrace non-interventionism (or at least turn against the war) if it is going to fare well in the future. He has cast his candidacy as the one that represents the best of Republicanism and the one that will make the GOP the most competitive. Whether or not you find these claims convincing, he wouldn’t have made the claims if he didn’t mean them (this is one of the fairly refreshing things about Ron Paul). Besides, to split off into a third-party campaign and guarantee a Democratic victory that is likely to happen anyway will simply provide the militarists with an excuse for their repudiation at the polls and will change nothing. The campaign more likely to steal Ron Paul’s issues would be the Democratic one, especially if Clinton is the nominee, as this would be a way of neutralising the threat of disaffected antiwar progressives who will be unhappy with a Clinton nomination defecting to a third party. A third party run would make sense only to the extent that it could realistically force the Democratic nominee to become seriously antiwar and less belligerent on Iran. Both of those seem unlikely.

I think Larison frames the question perfectly: Paul would need to decide if his constituency and the political tradition he represents would be taken more seriously in the future if he plays a spoiler role in ’08, or if he stands on the sidelines while the GOP nominee gets beaten, allowing him to say “I told you so” without being directly implicated in the defeat. But I’m not sure if Larison’s answer – which will probably be Paul’s as well – is correct. Sometimes third-party runs crystallize the marginalization of the ideas they represent: That was certainly the case with Buchanan’s 2000 candidacy, and it was arguably the case for John Anderson in 1980 and Henry Wallace in 1948. Sometimes, though, an independent bid serves as a highly effective way to punish one or both of the major parties for ignoring a key constituency: Thus George Wallace in 1968, Ross Perot in 1992, and arguably Ralph Nader in 2000. (Yes, Nader himself was vilified and ostracized by liberals for putting George W. Bush in the White House, but the constituency he represented – politically-engaged left-wingers put off by Clintonian triangulation – has seen its influence in the Democratic Party dramatically increase since 2000.) And in the event of a Giuliani-Clinton race, the general-election matchup where an independent run makes the most sense, Paul is in a strong position to peel away key constituencies from both parties – anti-war voters on the Democratic side and pro-lifers (and perhaps some anti-immigration voters, and of course the rare anti-war conservative) on the Republican side.

At the very least, one could imagine a Paul run forcing Giuliani to the right on immigration and abortion, and Clinton to the left on foreign policy; whether this would have any impact on how they’d govern is of course impossible to know, but it isn’t an insignificant consideration. Yes, Paul himself would be vilified by both sides, but if he did well enough, it’s possible to imagine the “Paul voter” becoming an object of fascination in the 2010 and 2012 elections, much as the elusive “Perot voter” was in the middle 1990s. (The Perot-voter fascination, one might note, helped midwife both the Republican Contract with America and the Democrats’ unexpected zeal for deficit-cutting.) Even on a very limited scale, this would be no small achievement, given how marginal Paulician principles have looked at various points during the Bush years. Whereas as a primary-campaign also-ran, however well-funded, I think Paul is basically a curiosity; if he wants to transcend the “Ronulan” jokes and the disdain of the Fox News moderators, he needs to take his show to the big stage and see what happens.

Photo by Flickr user MyTwistedLens used under a Creative Commons license.

Comments (60)

"but the constituency he represented...has seen its influence in the Democratic Party dramatically increase since 2000."

Correlation, not causation.

I hope Paul stays true to his word (there's every indication this is important to him.) I think the Republican brand is imploding. I'd be more interested in rebuilding it along Paul's line than trying to create another Party. I hope that a majority of Paul's support also takes the long view on this.

Hillary does not want to end the war and neither does Rudy. I really would not vote for either at the general election. If Paul does not run on the final ballot I'll probably abstain and focus on the local initiatives.

For now, however, Paul gets my primary vote.

Speculating on how Ron Paul might impact the stated positions of Hillary and Rudy is completely irrelevant. Does anyone really think that, once in office, either of them would stay true to those promises any more than W has?

It's that kind of completely justified cynicism that drives people to whom John McCain has called "the most honest man in Congress" - Ron Paul. You might not agree with all of his position, but you can be quite sure that they won't change.

Great analysis, Ross.

Right on, Ross. Nothing - well, nothing except his actually winning - would give me more pleasure than to see Ron Paul bring the Giuliani campaign to its knees and force the Republican powers-that-be to rethink their (lack of) principles. There's no question that he could do it, and there's no question that if he did then it would have a SERIOUS impact on the future of politics in this country.

Everyone always touts the "75% of the Republican Party support the war" statistic. If that is true, then Paul wins 25% of the conservative vote because he is the only candidate that supports ending the war... add to that the disaffected antiwar left, the libertarians, and people who have never voted before... and you have a winner.

I dont think that anyone knows how big this is yet. Paul's biggest problem is name recognition and the fact that no one aside from political junkies are paying attention right now.

Everyone always touts the "75% of the Republican Party support the war" statistic. If that is true, then Paul wins 25% of the conservative vote because he is the only candidate that supports ending the war... add to that the disaffected antiwar left, the libertarians, and people who have never voted before... and you have a winner.

I dont think that anyone knows how big this is yet. Paul's biggest problem is name recognition and the fact that no one aside from political junkies are paying attention right now.

Thinking Is Difficult; It Is Why So Few Actually Attempt It.

If the media would focus more on Issues And At Least Try to Get a Debate going on the Subjects; Articles Like This Would Be Irrelevant. Unfortunately It Seems That Many Would Rather Speculate Feeling Rather Than Argue Position.

Economic Catastrophe is in motion and Nuclear War With Russia Looms and still the media views the Presidential Race As A High School Popularity Contest.

Ron Paul is not claiming to have all the answers, Yet he seems to be the only candidate with any Logical Reasoning Behind The Positions He Has Arrived At and A Willingness To Debate.

The Message Is More Important Than The Man !!! Educate Yourself Or Be Led Down The Path Of Destruction.

In the unfortunate event that Ron Paul does not win the Republican nomination, I look for him to work to help elect more men and women to Congress who share his Constitutional viewpoint, and otherwise work to grow that wing of the Republican Party.

Perhaps one of them will pick up Paul's limited government Constitutional banner and carry it to victory in the 2012 Presidential election.

This is definitely one of the better strategic pieces put out as of late. While the hyperbloggers are slugging it in the trenches over issues with grumpy 'redstaters', real campaign considerations are looming. A Third Party effort analogous to Perot or Nader/Andersen looms. There was no substantial War in 1980, 1992 and 2000. Make Rudy go down in flames and let Hillary reign. Make 2010 the tipping point for a third party in the House, not the White House. Maybe by 2012 somebody will 'get it' or a people's initiative will prevail. Otherwise it's almost over, I hope Chris Matthews doesn't have an aneurysm chirping Hillary or Rudy the next 90 days. Hit click 'off' on Feb. 5th and wake up in November with a good hangover from drunken political indifference.

It would be nice if Ron Paul wins the Republican primaries. He's the ONLY candidate that can beat anyone in the Democrat line-up.

However, if the Constitution-subverting, Bill Of Rights-hating neocons and their corporatist allies play any dirty tricks and try to sideline him, I hope he rethinks his stance of not running as an Independent.

And, it would be equally wonderful if the Libertarians at their Presidential Convention nominate Ron Paul as their choice, too.

For now, and forever, Ron Paul gets my vote!

First, this is all kind of meaningless until after Super Tuesday when things will be either a lot clearer or just as muddy as ever.

Second, since the CP and LP nominating conventions are in April and May, respecitively, and the GOP is at Labor Day, and attempt to go completely third party will depend on what happens between New Hampshire and Super Tuesday. Lot of politics to play out before then, folks.

Third, all this talk about Dr. Paul going 3rd party is just another ongoing smokescreen to delfect discussion from the issues he is raising: the war, the economy, their relationship, and how it affects us all down on Main Street. All the other candidates are doing when he bring those things up are sticking fingers in the ears and going "LALALALALALA Third Party, 9/11, LALALALALA".

IMHO it'll be a moot point anyway as St. Paul is shaping up for a good old-fashioned floor fight with a mixed delegate bag. Should be interesting to watch Dr. Paul win that one, too.

Instead of focusing on that letter behind a candidate's name, let's focus on real issues, shall we?

Point in fact, in the Libertarian Party, the delegates are sovereign. They have the right to call a convention at *any* time, and revoke and renominate presidential candidates. Also, the national committee has the delegated power to withdraw the nomination, and renominate a different candidate.

While neither of these extreme options have ever been needed, they are available if needed, or if supported by supermajorities.

Bottom line is that the LP *could* nominate Ron Paul if he happens to lose the Republican nomination. Whether that would happen is an open question, though Paul has tremendous support among LP members.

And now the media is chanting - he's only going to be a 3rd party candidate, just like they were chanting he was a 3rd tier candidate.

Ron Paul is the only Republican running, just as Dennis Kucinich is the only Democrat running. Everybody else is just the same bought and paid for Neocon. Every one of the "top tier" candidates has supported the war in Iraq and at the very most have only made empty gestures about stopping it. Every one of the "top tier" candidates is on record supporting a war against Iran, a country that poses no threat to us. Not ONE of them has mentioned inflation which is intentional and controlled by the Federal Reserve. Not ONE of them has asked why the M3 monetary supply data is no longer reported by the Federal Reserve which measures the total amount of money in existence.

None of the "top tier candidates" talks about anything substantive or important.

Just like this joke of a media in the US talking about Britney Spears while we're at war in Iraq for weapons of mass destruction that don't exist, when nobody has been held accountable for this "mistake".

It's worthless to read American mainstream media today. You can get better information the United States from PRAVDA at this point.

You know, after Ron Paul gets his message out through TV and radio ads for awhile, and people still do not vote for Ron Paul because they want to back a "winner" no matter who that person really may be, I am DONE with politics. The American people in general are THE DUMBEST people I HAVE EVER MET, PERIOD. I have traveled the world both in the U.S. NAVY and as a flight attendant for a major airline and I am still amazed how stupid, ignorant, and generally unconcerned most U.S. citizen really are about the condition of our country and our world today. Very few people I talk with understand what inflation really is, or how it directly affects them. Furthermore, I have meet even fewer people who understand the direct link to our problem with China, and how much money we are barrowing from them just to stay solvent. Some people can talk a hard game about why they like to vote Republican becase they want a candidate that will draw a hard line in the sand about government spending, but these same people do not understand how our bloated empire is destroying us, and some still do not get it that IRAQ and IRAN had NOTHING to do with 9/11. Finally, about the only thing they can go on and on about is abortion and homosexuality, which is petty compaired to the other issues, but so many people, democrats included, see these two issues and the BIG TICKET issues becase they fear that we are on the verge of hell and brimstone, or they fell that these ARE their most important civil rights.

I myself am a gay 30 yo. NAVY vet, that used to see the world only through my sexuality, and wanted to do anything to rebuke my evangelical upbringing. I used to think Bill Clinton was a grest president, and it would be great to have Hillary next. I admit I was wrong. Hillary is about as pro gay as George W. is anti gay...SHE ISN'T. So many of my friend are only voting for her becase they think they will finally have a gay friendly leader in the White House that understands them, except she isn't for gay marrage either. I get into big debates over this with my gay friends; and I try to open their eyes to who she REALLY IS. She is in favor of the war with IRAN, and has no plans to leave IRAQ; her health plan is going to drive this country into bankruptsy even faster than GW is now, and she flip flops on all kinds of other issues including foreign oil, and green-fules here at home. I say to my friends "would you stop thinking of yourself as some future June Cleaver house wife for just one moment and pay attention to the other issues?" But they can't, they like her, they say they understand her. OMG!!! But people like my nutty evangelical mother are just as bad when it come to Rudi, Fred, and Mitt. Now that Pat Robertson has given his endorsement for Rudi, I am pretty sure she has decided who to vote for.

I have tryed to get them to pay attention to Ron Paul, but most people don't want to be bothered. My frinds are to busy with The OC, and Desperate Housewives; and my mother is too busy with Focus on the Family, and TBN's Praise the Lord.

For myself, so far I have given Dr. Paul $300. I wish it was more but I am a full time student. I wear my Ron Paul shirts, and I plan on giving $250.00 for the Boston Tea Party drop. But I guess why I wrote this is because I want people to know that not all of Dr. Pauls supporters are IT geeks, but were are smarter than most people. We pay attention, we read, and we remember. We can see that not all is what it appears to be. WE KNOW SOMETHING IS WRONG.

This battle will not be easy, the media is biased, and most people in the U.S. still, even after this disaster of a war in IRAQ, are asleep, hipnotized, and/or unconcerned.

Share this with the Wacky CBN Christians ~
Pat Robertson has compromised his integrity and slept with the devil (Giuliani).

A Word For Christians and lovers of Zion.

The G-d of Host tells us that Israel will never again disappear from the face of the earth after the return of Exile to land of Israel. And also we are plainly told by the prophets that making alliances for protection rather than trusting G-d was the reason for the fall of Israel and “The Day the Towers Fell.” (Is 30:35)

"…that take counsel, but not of Me; and that make alliances, but AGAINST MY WILL…"" Therefore shall the strength of Pharaoh be your SHAME, and the trust in the shadow of Egypt YOUR HUMILIATION."

"Their strength is to SIT STILL." And trust in the Lord

Isaiah 30 Clearly says that the reason for the 2,000 year exile was not trusting G-d and paying Egypt for protection. The U.S. has been paying Egypt for peace to the tune of 63 billion dollars to date. This angers G-d today just as it did 2,000 years ago.

Right action cannot arise out falsity. A SAD commentary on Christian society endorsing a unjust war because of their “support of Israel” that is in direct violation of scripture and the Just War Principle of Saint Augustine.

Support Israel with Honor. If the govt stops taking your money and giving it to Egypt, Pakistan ect..that money through the Free Market of IDEAS bring further prosperity and PEACE in Israel.

SUPPORT OF ANY OTHER CANDIDATE ANGERS THE JEWISH LORD OF HOST. Well meaning Christians are compromising with the devil (the CFR one world crew) out of FEAR and Lack of Faith in G-d. The same thing that Christians did in 1938 in Germany. Ron Paul is the only candidate who 100% represents all the issue that Christians Should Care About. Restoration of Civil Liberties (The federal government can't ban prayer or religion in school), Abolishment of Roe V Wade and many others.

When the Govt is fascist for Christian causes they are supportive but they fail to see the hypocrisy and fact that this fascism they are voting into power is used against them and they allowed it through the deception of fear. Yet like stupid sheep they yield to tyranny to the drum of pulpits and pundits. Christian Leadership is Apostate and have lost their way. They have compromised slowly over a period of 20 years. For the first time in your life Christians don't have to compromise and have a man of character and no compromise.

The Pulpit and Christian Media have been lead astray from the faith through FEAR.

America Gives Aid to Countries that Persecute Christians and Even Martyr Christians.

“IF YOU GIVE A PHROPHET A GLASS OF WATER YOU SHARE IN HIS REWARD.”

Support of Any Other Candidate Than Ron Paul is a Support of selling your children into financial bondage by borrowing money to give it to Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and support of the financial system of the "beast". Gold is Bible Money and God's money.

You are voting for Slavery and standing against Moses.

http://www.cyclesurfer.com/Zion4RonPaul.htm

RON PAUL CAN WIN!! PUSH HARDER, KEEP UP THE MOMENTUM.

Bush won the 2004 nomination with no competition.

As incumbent wartime president he was guaranteed victory in the primaries.

The only reason to vote in the 2004 primary was to show support for Bush and the Iraq War. IF the Republicans were so gung-ho about Bush and the war in 2004, they would have flocked to the primaries and support him.

But, they did NOT. The 2004 Republican turnout was the lowest in history. Those who voted in it are staunch Bush supporters and war Hawks.

All the "Scientific Polls" are ONLY contacting that very low percentage of Die hard Bush supporters and war hawks.

They are a fring element and do not represent the Republican party as a whole. These polls are not "scientific" and in fact are SERIOUSLY FLAWED because they represent a very small group of hawkish staunch bush supporters and not the average Joe Republican, not to mention the droves of moderate democrats and independents who have registered to vote for Ron PAul in the Primaries.

RON PAUL CAN WIN THE NOMINATION!!

Ron Paul has won 17 straw polls and every single online poll!!!

Early Primary victories will prove Ron Paul can win!!

RON PAUL CAN WIN THE NOMINATION!!

Perhaps mainstream, establishment media will acknowledge his "top tier" status. Until then, here's the real rankings in the Republican race...

http://www.truthalert.net/Republican%20Presidential%20Candidate%20Rankings.htm

All this stuff about forcing Giuliani to the right & making Hillary more serious about ending the war is presupposing that either of these candidates would fulfill their campaign promises by doing what they say they will do. President Bush did not. He campaigned in 2000 for smaller government & non-intervention and look what we got. He totally violated what he promised in his campaign. Hillary is famous for her flip-flopping. She goes which ever way the wind blows. Giuliani has supported President Bush on the war. Why would we think he would be any different in regards to keeping his campaign promises?

The only candidate we can count on to follow his campaign promises is Ron Paul. He has been in Congress for 20 years and has not violated his principles once. Ron Paul is the only one to be trusted to do what he says he will do. None of the other candidates can be trusted to follow through on what they say they will do.

Republicans DON'T want Paul to run in their precious primaries but they DON'T want him to run 3rd party knowing that he'll finish above whatever couple of turds is nominated on the GOP ticket. The GOP can't have it both ways. Either they should start reaching out on a couple of issues to libertarians and independents, or just continue to whine when these voters vote 3rd party and the GOP candidate loses another tight race.

Deliver us from these tiresome Paul crusaders. Douthat has either gone bonkers in taking this guy seriously or playing some sort of amusing game.

I have joined a Ron Paul meet up group that has Democrats, Republicans, military wives, old, young, all in it together. We have differing view points on many issues, but preservation of our freedom and Constitution is the glue that holds this group together. I thought I was well educated on domestic and foreign affairs, but these Ron Paul supporters are better educated and more passionate about preserving freedom than 99 percent of Americans out there.

If you listen to the so-called Conservative radio stations in my area, Ron Paul is a radical, because of his stance on the war and on eliminating income tax. Two years ago I believed Rush Limbaugh and the rest of them. Little did I know I was an uneducated sheep, being used, where I supported a war in Iraq and those disastrous free trade agreements. I consider it twelve years of wasted space between my ears, as just one hour of reading Joan Veon's material on the United Nations and global governance, gave me more knowledge about domestic and world affairs than listening to those so-called conservatives for all those years.

Joan Veon has been a UN reporter for many years and has been to over 80 UN conferences. She has interviewed many of the top officials from around the world and has witnessed the papers signed that are meant to bring us into global governance. It’s just a matter of time, as our education is geared toward globalization. Anyone that has studied Hitler or Stalin, understands that you can change a nation through centralized education.

I now understand how the seen hand of the media is scaring and dividing the people, turning American against American, while the unseen hand of government is marching along, left, right, left, right, stealing our freedoms. If you notice one party signs onto an un-Constitutional policy or war, and then the supposedly opposing party initiate it or carry it through—this has been going on for years.

Ron Paul, the last chance for America not do disintegrate into dust. Ron Paul in 2008, or the USA will erode into nothing.

The French and the Chinese are on to our fiat money ways.

Do a Google News search for "Sarkozy dollar".

Ron Paul has a real shot at knocking this campaign wide open. Americans are in a funk due to the wreckage created by the Bush-Clinton-Bush hegemony, and the continuance of GLOBELUST by most of the mainstream candidates (both parties). Americans want their identity, their freedom, and their nation back. They are just waiting for a unifying force to make them confident about their identity, their country and the political leadership. Most do not give a damn about GLOBELUST, for whatever reason.

I have no illusions about the mainstream media or the polls. They are owned by corporate interests or the interests of clients who are tied to a specific result. The polling methods are severely flawed, anyway. Eventually, the media and the pollsters may have to be dragged into the court of public opinion and forced to recant their positions--as public perceptions dictate.

All that is needed for Paul's campaign is a spark, a defining moment, to ignite this election.

Why dosn't anyone talk about Giuliani running as a third party candidate?

That would make way more sense. His stance on many issues is way more contrary to the Republican Party than those of Ron Pauls.

Ron Paul is more of a Republican than Giuliani.

Are all the people in the media stupid?

Ross,

I realize you don't know much about the Ron Paul campaign, but why would he need to run as a 3rd party candidate? He is going to win the Republican nomination, and handily.

And the reason he keeps saying he won't run as a 3rd party candidate is that DC Bubbleheads like yourself keep asking him about it.

This is going to be an all-out fight till super Tuesday. I am overjoyed to finally have a candidate that I believe in 100% One thing that no one realizes is that most people stay home for the primaries. RP supporters will walk, crawl, barrel-roll, do whatever they can to get to the booth to vote for him. The media can only keep this story down for so long. It's true that this would be easier if the media wasn't bought and paid for, but we never said this revolution was going to be televised, now did we?

Why do morons in the press keep asking that idiotic question about a 3rd party?

I assume they're supposed to be political reporters, but they have no knowledge of our political system.

We have a 2-party system. This is not a parliamentary system where multiple parties can form winning coalitions.

In our system, a 3rd party simply weakens the party which most closely shares its position.

Fortunately Ron Paul is not as dumb as the members of the press and emphatically says no.

This reminds me of brand loyalty.
I'm one of those people who are still trying to quit smoking.
Until I do, I'll buy any menthol cigarette that has a good deal.
Because I like menthol. (yeah, I know...blech)
But I wouldn't spend even 2 cents on a non-menthol pack, no matter the deal.
Ron Paul....Independent, Libertarian, Constitutionalist, Republican, or "Kook", as some people call him.
I really don't care what his label is. I don't care who else buys him.
I like what he stands for.
I have NO brand loyalty.
And NO political party loyalty.
I just want the best person for the job.
And for president....that would be Ron Paul.

Wow. The Paulicans really came out in force, didn't they?

Ross, it will be difficult to get to the right of Ron Paul on immigration and abortion. I think even a majority of his supporters don't know his stances on those issues.

On immigration he'd give Pat Buchanan a run for his money -- Paul even favors an end to birthright citizenship. And on abortion, he has sponsored legislation to define life as beginning at conception. Just check Paul's website if you don't believe me.

Hm, maybe he deserves a second look from social conservatives, after all....

Registration Bomb- Register RonPaulblican

Looking for people to help generate a viral
message to encourage voters to change their party
affiliation in time to help Ron Paul win the
republican primaries.

If you have web expertise and Ron Paul volunteer
spirit, perhaps you would help develop the
domains I bought for this purpose:
RonPaulblican.com and registerRonPaulblican.com.
I don't have the expertise to develop these
domains.

Could just be a list of pledges to register
republican or change to republican before the
states' cutoff dates (maybe with some graphs):
Nov. 19 for Maryland, Nov. 30 for West Virginia
etc.

Also, the site should show each states updated
voter registration statistics as they come out.

The money bombs are great, but we need to be able
to vote him in also!

Please spread this message!

If you are interested in using my domains, you
can contact me at ronpaulblican@yahoo.com

Thanks, Dan C

Registration Bomb- Register RonPaulblican

Looking for people to help generate a viral
message to encourage voters to change their party
affiliation in time to help Ron Paul win the
republican primaries.

If you have web expertise and Ron Paul volunteer
spirit, perhaps you would help develop the
domains I bought for this purpose:
RonPaulblican.com and registerRonPaulblican.com.
I don't have the expertise to develop these
domains.

Could just be a list of pledges to register
republican or change to republican before the
states' cutoff dates (maybe with some graphs):
Nov. 19 for Maryland, Nov. 30 for West Virginia
etc.

Also, the site should show each states updated
voter registration statistics as they come out.

The money bombs are great, but we need to be able
to vote him in also!

Please spread this message!

If you are interested in using my domains, you
can contact me at ronpaulblican@yahoo.com

Thanks, Dan C

Ron Paul has said repeatedly that he "has no intention" of running as an independent or third-party nominee. His lack of intention won't necessarily stop his supporters though, and the good doctor has also said that he's not really in charge of the campaign, the campaign's in charge of him. We live in interesting and exciting times!

I'm very thankful to finally have someone in Ron Paul to vote for that I truly believe in, instead of the 'best of the worst', business as usual.

Voting for the best of two evils is still voting for evil. I wont do it again.

Our country's future is in peril, and short lived, if any one but Paul is elected.

He is the shining light in a very dark world.

The Democratic Party is now totally Marxist and the U.S. is headed for some kind of Dark Ages if Democrats win claims this article about Ron Paul's revitalization of the Republican Party:
http://spirituallibertarian.blogspot.com/

No third party can stop the Marxists, and it seems Ron Paul understands the next step is to exert tremendous influence within the Republican Party.

Well, so much for the "Ron Paul's supporters are more thoughtful and informative than the opposition's" idea that was floated on this blog earlier.

Ross,
I appreciate you looking at him becoming a 3rd party candidate way more in-depth than anywhere else I have seen. Personally, I doubt he will. I think that this black and white Two Party System allows for a lot of gray for us to look at; I think people think of it like we already have a left and a right, where else could you go? Other parties make it much more complicated than it needs to be for the current American public. I wish I didn't believe that.

Cato,
Do all Paul supporters require the Paulican label? What about Ronbot? I disagree with boxing people up into groups after hearing Dr Paul's stance (possibly current stance) on isms. As for the issues you brought up;
1. Abortion. Dr Paul feels this issue is too complicated and touchy to resolve at the federal level. His personal view as an OBGYN is what you're getting at but you didn't show the whole picture. As leader he wants this to be a local issue, highest at the state level; and he would most likely focus on keeping it there his entire presidency.
2. Immigration. You pointed out his view regarding illegal immigration. His deeply set free trade / non-interventionist stance screams Don't tread on me! He is very much pro-immigration, and his birthright stance would be only for those legally here.
Please read into what he says, as far as you can. Don't stop after the first comma, please. Please, also quit implying that he is an isolationist. Social conservative research...is that your final offer?

Speculation about what Ron Paul will do if he does not win the Republican nomination only diverts attention from the issues that are urgently pressing. The US dollar is utterly collapsing. Hundreds continue to die from violence in the middle east every week, due to the insane US foreign policy that destabilized the region. The executive branch and congress on both sides of the isle are systematically dismantling our constitutional rights.

Put this issue to rest. Ron Paul said he does not intend to run as a third party candidate. Agree with him on policy or not, you have to admit that he never lies. He has answered the question, so let it go.

If Ron Paul does not win the nomination, that will mean the people have not awakened from their stupor. The US will become a third world country, with all the poverty and oppression that that implies. It will not happen because Ron Paul was denied the opportunity to wave a magic wand. He has no magic wand. It will happen because the American people got too stupid to get smart before it was too late.

Only 3-5% of Americans took part in the American Revolution. That is a fact.

They started brush fires of rebellion here and there, everywhere! The majority never took part, it was only after the 3-5% did their part, the rest would follow.

On that November 5th, we gathered for the second American Revolution, and on November 11th, we will do it again, and on December 16th, we will do it again, but the 16th, will be quite a gathering of individuals, sort of a one voice heard around the world!

I know most Americans will soon follow.

The same pundits who give Ron Paul no chance also thought gold was overvalued in 2005, 2006 and today. Don't think anything is impossible.

For all of my life (I'm in my fifties), I've been a Democrat and I've voted for Democratic candidates for president. But that's about to change. I'm currently switching to Republican so that I can vote for Dr. Paul in my state primary.

To Cato, who earlier posted that "I think even a majority of his (Paul's) supporters don't know his stances on those issues (immigration and abortion). Actually, I have read through all of Ron Paul's positions. But while there are a couple of things I don't completely agree with him on, I recognize that in Dr. Ron Paul, I am looking at a man with true honor and integrity, one who has been a tireless patriot campaigning for the last 30 years to restore America to how it's founders envisioned it could be and not what it's become. His record of consistency is stunning.

To those of you who wonder aloud, can he win? I say absolutely yes! Here's why: Ron Paul has the most energized supporters I've seen in recent memory and that support is growing - taking great advantage of the latest technologies for communications. With this, I believe that it is quite possible for Ron Paul's fund raising to accelerate into even more staggering levels as the momentum increases and the message is received by more people via media purchases made by the Paul campaign.

And interestingly enough, the more the media ignores and denigrates Ron Paul, the more I suspect his donation numbers rise. Even as I sent my own contribution to Dr. Paul, I found myself imagining that I was talking to some of those media pundits who were dismissive of Dr. Paul and I was saying "so there!"

"At the very least, one could imagine a Paul run forcing Giuliani to the right on immigration and abortion, and Clinton to the left on foreign policy . . ."

In name only; Clinton and Giuliani are barren posturers: reeds in the wind of vanity.

Ron Paul's message has been the same for 30 years.

Ron Paul is for Veterans and the Constitution. Our Troops love him!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-tddQEZ_By0

When I look at these poll results on the msm, I just have to wonder, "Who are all these people who supposedly support Rudy and Hillary?"

No one I talk to does. Where do these pollsters go to find those people?

80% of adult Americans are online, yet the msm says online support is insignificant.

I guess the pollsters are contacting the 20% of adult Americans who don't know how to use a computer. Are they really significant?

Ron Paul is a constitutionist, a true Republican. A Ron Paul Presidency would encourage the original Constitution's balance of power, eliminating the seemingly absolute power of the Executive branch.

Ron Paul would immediately remove our military from Iraq and other non-essential areas of the world. Saving lives is paramount. Please see the following website? http://projects.washingtonpost.com/fallen/

Then he would begin the process of trimming the unconstitutional federal government departments. Such military and departmental streamlining would reduce the federal budget immensely. These combined savings would be a serious beginning to paying down the enormous federal debt we owe to Japan, China, and several other nations. The benefits of paying down the debt are clear; the dollar value would be increased making it more competitive with the euro and our children and grandchildren will not be strapped with our debt.

By streamlining the Federal Government the collected funds will also be used to pay back the borrowed Social Security funds. Please to remember, the Social Security lockbox is empty?

Having chuckled when imagining the elimination of the IRS, hopefully, this can be a reality by substituting a less invasive, indirect tax.

Please refer to Ron Paul's archived writings: http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul-arch.html You will find him well versed on current applications of constitutional law.

Respectfully,
Linda Inveninato

To first understand Ron paul one must understand the Constitution. I have posted a seven hour class on www.myspace.com/hope4america2008 to enlighten people. It is hard to imagine that people actually vote without knowing what their natural law rights are. Worse the fact that our federal education system fails to teach students their rights.

Ron Paul should take the anti-war vote from virtually both parties. Seeing as the rest of Pauls opponents will split the pro-war votes between them and the fact that Ron paul is the guy the third of America that won't vote for lack of a candidate that meets their requirements I'd say, he has a good chance.

The key is getting out to vote in those primaries with groups of Paul supporters at all costs.

Don't expect others to do so, yOU gotta get out there and vote whether it is freezing cold or not!

I still say that there may be a chance that Paul will defect to Libertarian if he feels he can win. Of course he would be stupid to admit that now. We all know he's NOT stupid.

Heh...it seems apparent that EH has lost...and Ron Paul has WON! We really need to get organized guys/girls...use meetup.com or something anything and canvass your neighborhood..Go Ron Go!


Jim Kelly, in his comment wonders, "Who are all these people who supposedly support Rudy and Hillary?"

Well, Jim, these are the daytime-soap-opera watching folk who haven't yet bothered to enter their phone numbers on the "do not call" list.

If Paul ran as a third party, he would get more votes than Rudy. They would both lose, but you couldn't call him a spoiler.

Very interesting post, Ross. I'd always sort of seen Paul as the "purity" candidate, the one that idealistic people can safely vouch for and then use as a way to bitch about the more big-time candidates (and eventual winner) later in a "Don't blame me I voted for X" manner.

But this made me take a real long look at the possible practical consequences of an RP third-party run. I don't support many of Paul's positions, but I'd be curious to see if he can bloody (or at least bruise) the nose of the major parties. I'm taking his campaign about, oh, 25% more seriously now.

Ron Paul, Third-Party Candidate?

How about Ron Paul leading Republican candidate?

Don't believe it? Visit www.thecaseforronpaul.com and judge for yourself.

Ron Paul is 90 - 95% chance to win 2008 - win everything. The main stream media and the military industrial complex are so afraid of this guy the lies and hit pieces they print proves this guy is going to sweep.

Ron Paul is going to sweep like the Red Sox did the series.

FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

The 'net has grown so big that it could potentially support Ron Paul as a 3rd party candidate. If his momentum continues unabated, he could have enough support to actually win as a 3rd party candidate. Also, there is no telling how much worse things are going to get between now and one year from now. I mean, the DOW has dropped 5% this week, and this is happening despite the Fed pumping hundreds of billions of liquidity into the market. This should not be happening... the DOW should be at 14,500 right now.

If oil prices hold till may, gas will hit $4.00. People will be demanding answers. Real answers, not the fluff that the other candidates are spewing. Ron Paul has already given some of those answers. Sadly, even Ron Paul has been sugarcoating the truth. But he at least has an idea what's going on. The others either have no clue (Romney) or have no intention of telling the truth (Clinton).

There is some talk today that Fox News or the Republicans will exclude Paul from the next debate by requiring a certain level of support in phone polls. If they should do that, I hope Paul does make a third party run. That should fix the neocons at Fox. Otherwise, if he's treated reasonably fairly through the primaries, I think his message will get a decent hearing. There's always 2012 if he's up to it!

I am so proud of all the Ron Paul supporters here. They are the backbone of America and we will win. I hold signs every weekend over one freeway or another in Houston and the level of Pro Paul honks has grown from 2 out of a 100 to 10-15 out of a hundread. I tried to give a guy a Ron Paul slim jim and he laughed and showed me the one he got up the road. Also Democrats don't like Hillary. They tell me all the time that Ron Paul is the only Republican they can vote for. Unless Obama or Hillary goes full pull the troops out now they will not win!!

Ron who?

Sorry for the attribution mistake. Found the text at the bottom of the article. My bad.

I hope he is drafted as the LP's presidential candidate. the reason is he actually has a chance at winning or at the least securing almost permanent ballot access for the LP. it is unlikely he'll receive the GOP nomination because of closed primaries. the LP IS the largest 3rd party, there is no need to build a new party, there is already one here waiting to be elected. for Paul to win the republican nomination it would require a significant loss in the LP's base by having enough people in closed primary state's switch parties from LP to GOP before the deadlines (and if that happened do you really think most of those people would ever bother to switch back?). but, if he gets on the ballot for the LP, he'll probably be on the ballot in 48-50 states and have all of the publicity and name recognition from his run for the republican nomination, but without the problem of the closed primary system. in 08 we have the chance to make the libertarian party a major contender for decades to come and spread the message of liberty and limited government or we can let Ron Paul and the libertarian message/party fade away.