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Talking About Ron Paul

06 Nov 2007 10:52 am

John Podhoretz writes:

In one respect, Paul deserves his success. He is a far more articulate and coherent critic of administration policy in Iraq than any candidate on the Democratic side, speaking as he does the frank and plain language of the isolationist. “The fundamental question remains,” he said in 2004, “Why should young Americans be hurt or killed to liberate foreign nations? I have never heard a convincing answer to this question.”

What distinguishes Paul from the anti-war gadfly Dennis Kucinich in the Democratic Party is that Kucinich speaks alternately the language of the brainless pacifist — he would form a Department of Peace to replace the Pentagon — and the language of the far from brainless New Left, according to which the sins of the United States are sufficiently grave to deny it any kind of moral legitimacy abroad. Paul’s isolationism is rooted in the age-old American fear that we will be morally compromised by the sins of other nations who do not breathe the same sweet air of American exceptionalism.

I basically agree, though I think the last line abstracts a bit from first-order political concerns in order to be dismissive. (One could just as easily describe Paul's isolationism as rooted in "the age-old American fear" of having your kids killed and your tax dollars squandered on a fruitless overseas crusade - which is likewise compatible with traditional American patriotism in a way that New Lefty Amerika-bashing isn't.)

On the third-party question, meanwhile, JPod suggests that despite "Paul’s nominal standing as a Republican," he would probably "draw more from disaffected Democrats, as liberal Republican John Anderson’s 1980 third-party candidacy pulled voters away from Jimmy Carter and not from Ronald Reagan." This runs counter to Steven Stark's argument, over at RCP, that any third-party run helps the Democrats, because historically, third-party candidates always "damage the candidate of the incumbent party." (I think I'm with JPod if the Democratic nominee is Hillary Clinton; I'm with Stark if it's Obama or Edwards.)

Elsewhere, Michael Crowley writes, "can you imagine if Paul were a younger and more charismatic figure?" I've had this thought myself: What if Ralph Nader's ideas had been represented by someone who looked and sounded like Ronald Reagan? What if Ross Perot had been blessed with Bill Clinton's charm? What if the Buchananite revolt hadn't been led by, well, Pat Buchanan? But in a sense, to ask the question is to answer it: If you're young and charismatic and interested in politics, the rewards to staying within the mainstream political consensus are so high, and so readily apparent, as to be near-irresistible. If Ron Paul looked and sounded like Bill Clinton, he probably never would have become a constitutionalist in the first place. (Though of course Reagan himself was arguably an exception to this pattern - a rising star who embraced "extremism" when every sensible person was rushing away from it - and look how that worked out for him.)

In the particular case of Paul, one might also venture that being a crusty old coot is actually part of his appeal, rather than a liability. (At the very least, it makes that Weyrich endorsement seem downright perverse: If there were ever a potential standard-bearer for streetcars and male hats, surely it's the candidate who doesn't know Tom Cruise from Tom Swift.)

Update: Matt makes a similar point to the above:

The difficulty is that in a country as big as the United States, it's easy for a set of views to simultaneously be very unpopular and also be supported by millions of people, but out of those millions of people the folks who decide to enter electoral politics in order to take on a principled, "no compromise with the electorate" approach are going to be the eccentrics. More normal, well-adjusted people with extremist views are going to prefer to do something less frustrated and isolating with their lives.

As a result, views like Kucinich's social democracy and Paul's libertarianism wind up represented by eccentric politicians, which winds up making their views seem weirder than they deserve to be.

Comments (61)

It's horrible to see you calling such a fine American names like a schoolyard child. Not surprising you are also misleading your readers about Ron Paul's foreign policy positions. Whatever the foundation of your political position is, this article indicates it's neither truthful nor moral.

Curious readers can find out the truth about Ron Paul from his website: www.ronpaul2008.com.

No longer can Ron Paul be label a "long shot" candidate. He clearly is a "top tier" candidate and has surpassed John McCain.

I have gathered the evidence to support this statement and created a website.

Please visit www.thecaseforronpaul.com and decide for yourself.

*sigh*.. Like Ronald Reagan said, "There you go again."
Ron Paul is not isolationist. He is a non-interventionalist. A full distinction between the two can also be found at his web site, noted by the gentleman making the first comment posted here.

First of all Ron Paul is not an isolationist, he speaks loudly for GENUINE free trade and commerce between nations.
I'm sure you would like to spin his position on foreign policy to something it is not but the fact of the matter is he is a non interventionist, meaning he does not believe in preemptive wars and tangling military alliances.
Other than that it's a nice hit piece you've written here. In four paragraphs you have taken the most successful internet fundraiser in the history of the world and painted him as a fearful isolationist out of touch crusty old coot. Nice job of objective journalism. Fortunately the people of the United States are smart enough to see through your bias.

Although Paul is more of a "non-interventionist" compared to an isolationist i wouldn't say the post is BS because of it. Paul comes off as an isolationist.. no entangling alliances, hes talked about getting out of NATO and the UN. I would say that Paul hovers the line quite close. But I have all the faith possible in Ron Paul. I herd someone say its usually picking between this poison or that poison when it came to the candidates, but we now have poison and well... whatever you want to call Dr Paul. grape juice maybe?

Thank you Ross for printing this article! THANK YOU THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

RonPaulbots, be nice! WE accomplished our goal! We are spreading the message of Freedom far and wide; Who would care to speculate what the value of Ross showing this great win is? For those who donated, this article just multiplied your return on investment…. That is… unless we come across differently than the happy, enthusiastic pro freedom Americans we are. Be nice, say thank you and let a positive message be spread across our prairies and mountaintops.

Boris

Good take on Dr. Paul in some aspects. However, I do take issue with at least one point: You incorrectly stated that Ron Paul is an isolationist. What you meant is that he is a non-interventionalist, a policy from a completely different nomenclature.

Isolationism is a fiscal and social ideology composed of a closed trading policy where international trade is either taxed heavily or disallowed. Ron Paul favors free trade, a diametrically opposed school of thought.

He also voted for the use of military force in Afghanistan. He, and many other congressmen, authorized this as a means to capture Bin Laden, a task that has been ignored by the current administration.

Paul is probably as far right as a candidate can get. Of course, the protection of life and liberty have always been the Republican issues. Read a few speeches made by Ronald Reagan. Save for names, dates, and inflation altered dollars, they could be made by Ron Paul last week.

I agree that his well-aged vigor is a selling point, not a detriment. He has, indeed, earned his right to be righteously indignant.

Q: Why do Ron Paul supporters seem so extreme?

A: Maybe biased reporting of important events, such as the Presidential election, is abhorred by Americans because the outcome effects the destiny of every citizen of the United States.
____________________________________________
By ignoring the money bomb you're saying that no explanation for the $4.2 "money bomb" exists.
People donated money on November 5th just for kicks.

Which is more absurd?
1. The polls are correct. Ron Paul truly has 1% of the population as supporters, and nearly all of them donated on November 5th.

2. Ron Paul is enormously popular and not all of his supporters donated on November 5th.

The surge in funds is because the message of freedom is also enormously popular?

Remarkable that, this fund-raising event was NOT organized by Ron Paul 2008 PCC. His supporters made this happen -- remarkable that.

Shame on you for suppressing the strongest grassroots movement we have seen in decades.

The isolationists are now in power. They have effectively isolated us from the rest of the the world with their agressive militaristic policies, fear propoganda and Ponzi like global financial schemes. They have also isolated their own population and have invoked a fashionable compliance amongst those who choose to promote their agenda while seeking their protection, regardless of the erosive effects to the foundations that have been vital to the continuation of this great experiment. Discounting freedom for protection will leave you with niether.

Isolationism is a trade policy. Ron Paul is less isolationist than the Bush administration or any other recent administration, becuase he promotes open commerce with all nations, including Cuba.

I think you meant to say that, in terms of military strategy, Dr. Paul is non-interventionist. He only supports constitutional wars in response to a direct threat--not UN police actions or foreign invasions. America was non-interventionist until the Korean War.

It's great to see more people talking about Ron Paul, but Ron Paul is NOT an isolationist. Ron Paul, like our founding fathers, would like peace and commerce with all nations, war with none. Granted this may appear to be a long-shot but we have to give peace a chance or we will always be at war. Do you always want to have wars?

Why do you people call non-interventionism isolatoinism, how about we call it BEING NEUTRAL! Remember, peace and commerce with all, wars with none!! What a great idea.

Please, read more about our founding fathers and the advise they left us in their letters and quotes.

Back in the day eccentricity was expected from intellectuals. Its no suprise that Ron Paul skull@#%#@$ his opponents in debates, he seams to be the only intelligent and healthfuly weird force in American politics.

And besides, the warmongers are all clean cut drug free people. They just enjoy killing and domination more than individuation and contemplation.

People are tired of the same recycled crap that's out there now.

Ron Paul is the only candidate that has a consistent position and he's stood by it for over 20 years.

Oh yes RonPaulbots! Paulett's! What every they call you.. All of those wonderful and Great Americans who work, talk, paint, donate, and believe in Ron Paul's message of freedom we are winning, and this is the proof. All of those who work to promote our message of freedom across this great land of ours, we winning the hearts and minds of America. This scares the heck out of the owners because the slaves may break free. From the roof tops, highway, handouts and marches keep up the awesome work Our Founding Fathers would be proud..Keep spreading Ron Pauls freedom message to all who will listen and Dr. Paul will bring our freedom back to life in 2008. They are afraid to tell thee whole story so people will not check him out. If they do they all become supporters inspired by hope, freedom and liberty as never before.

The commenters arguing about whether Paul is isolationist or noninterventionist remind me of the pedants who spend all day correcting the rest of us that the US is a republic and not a democracy.

It may be a distinction, but it isn't a relevant one to the point being made.

". . . can you imagine if Paul were a younger and more charismatic figure?"

I don't know: he swept up all the Republican debates, beating even Romney (who's supposed to have that all-American appeal).

You may be out of touch with your senses.

I agree with others that calling Congressman Paul an isolationist is misleading. Please do some research on that and print that discussion as it would serve America well to get a greater understanding of what our role in the world should be as described in the US Constitution.

I am a veteran that was a hawk a few months ago. I "actually listened" to Dr. Paul and have read his writtings. He is right. I was wrong. It is rare-er still to get someone to admit they have changed their mind...I have. Others will if they are honest with themselves for what is best for this nation.

As a Catholic there is no other candidate I can support to maintain the integrity of my faith on life and other social issues despite the long shot odds. Other honorable Christians will determine the same when they realize he does not advocate pulling our troops out of Iraq and elsewhere because we are afraid...in fact my fear was misplaced overseas. The danger is here at home against our liberties and freedoms. The danger of open borders, multi-national corporations, the UN, WTO, NAFTA, AFTA...

What has become of our soverignty?

Dr. Paul is not a "crusty old coot" either. He is a gentleman with poise and integrity. Look at how he handled himslef when the GOP booed him in the debate about following orders from the enemy. Such grace is rare in our personal lives much less politics.

to Dilan Esper:

There is nothing pedantic about the difference between nonintervention and isolationism. They are diametrically opposed.

Each word has a meaning and one is the antonym of the other.

It is no less different then correcting someone who said you were pro-choice when in fact ypu were pro-life, and the corrections wouldn't be necessary if the journalist had a proper command of the terms they were using.

Ron Paul is not an isolationist, he just believes that US independence comes first over treaties that undermine US sovereignty. Ron Paul wants diplomacy and free trade. Calling him an isolationist is an ad hominem attack and unfair.

As others have said, Ron Paul is no isolationist!

"and the corrections wouldn't be necessary if the journalist had a proper command of the terms they were using."

They are aware of the distinction. The distortion is quite deliberate.

Why do you and others persist in calling Ron Paul and isolationist, that which he's not? Instead he is non interventionist, meaning that he doesn't want to the U.S. to get involved in the internal affairs of other nations and suffer the consequences of blowback, doesn't want to the U.S. to get entangled in alliances that adversely affect us, but does want us to maintain our sovereignty as a nation. He is very much in favor of free trade, talking with people, negotiating, etc. That doesn't sound isolationist to me.

And what about this comment:

"In the particular case of Paul, one might also venture that being a crusty old coot is actually part of his appeal, rather than a liability."

A crusty old coot? You can call him anything you want, but it's the message which is resonating. If the $4.2 million was a surprise, just you wait. The best is yet to come.

Folks, forget about your dictionaries. "Isolationist" has a pragmatic meaning in American politics, and it refers to the set of policies that Mr. Paul advocates.

You guys just don't like it because it sounds bad. However, voters don't know what the heck a "non-interventionist" is. They do know what an "isolationist" is.

Dilan, if your point is that we should defer to the opinion of others simply because they are ignorant, I think I'll pass. The difference relates to trade, as isolationism favors protectionism to control trade and cultural exchange with people in other nations. Definitely not Dr. Paul's position.

And of course we don't like it because it sounds bad. That's why the media insists on using the incorrect term, because it sounds bad. So we complain and correct.

An isolationist wouldn't go to war with Nazi Germany.

A non-interventionist wouldn't go to war with Nazi Germany, but would sell them Zyklon-B.

If language is not correct, then what is said is not what is meant; if what is said is not what is meant, then what must be done remains undone; if this remains undone, morals and art will deteriorate; if justice goes astray, the people will stand about in helpless confusion. Hence there must be no arbitrariness in what is said. This matters above everything.
        — Confucius

Don't be an idiot, Jason. If you're somehow trying to tie that to Ron Paul's positions you're a buffoon.

Judging by this reaction, I think it's probably a good idea to keep on saying "isolationist" just to make Mr. Paul's supporters (and by the way, he's not running for Surgeon General, so drop the "Dr.") look like idiots.

If you guys want to be taken seriously on policy, then stop making up terms like "non-interventionist" and insisting, in lockstep, that everyone use them. Start talking policy instead.

Most Democrats and Republicans agree, at base, that a non-interventionist stance is dangerous to America. They just disagree on when intervention is necessary, with the GOP being much, much more in favor (particularly the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld folks on one side and the neo-cons on the other, coming from different places but agreeing on more frequent interventions).

The New Left anti-americanism thing is just a silly canard, not a real point. You can't just slur the party fringes and pretend it has something to do with the mainstream. Otherwise, I can dismiss Paul's positions and include the rest of the GOP in the dismissal.

Would you Paulistinians melt is a bucket of cold water were thrown on you? You are collectively the most deluded group of humans alive. No wonder your ranks SWELL with truthers who believe the US government attacked herself on 9/11.

I have a little dose of reality for you.

Ron Paul will not be the Republican Nominee. Ron Paul will not win the election as a third party candidate.

The very best Ron Paul can hope for is assuring Hillary Clinton a very comfortable margin of victory in Nov 2008.

J-Pod is also either too lazy to look it up or lying about Kucinich's Dept of Peace. It doesn't replace the Pentagon; it's in addition to the Pentagon.

Like it's so hard to knock down that idea without resorting to just making stuff up?

Or is he just trying to misinform his readers and get this stuff out there to make it easier to argue that all the Dems are dirty hippies?

from dictionary.com


i·so·la·tion·ism (ī'sə-lā'shə-nĭz'əm) Pronunciation Key
n. A national policy of abstaining from political or economic relations with other countries.


non·in·ter·ven·tion /ˌnɒnɪntərˈvɛnʃən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[non-in-ter-ven-shuhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun 1. abstention by a nation from interference in the affairs of other nations or in those of its own political subdivisions.


thus, we now have established that both are words, and both are nouns, and both have distinct meanings.

Isolationism means closing the borders and closing the doors to trade, diplomacy, and interaction.

Nonintervention means not bombing other countries into the stone age to effect their internal policies, or sending assassins to bump off leaders whos policies we disagree with.

Is that too nuanced for you?

If the challenges of effectively wielding the english language for civil discourse is getting the best of you, perhaps there is another language we should pursue.

Does that mean a Ron Paul administration would or would not approve the sale of helicopter gunships to Sudan?

@ Carolina,

You're likely correct in your analysis. Paul will likely not win the republican nomination.

However, there are people in this republic to whom his message is meaningful, and it is incumbent upon them to support him and attempt to spread his message(his message being the time tested message of austrian economics and personal liberty)

The reason his gravity effects such a diverse crowd is in the message itself. Everyone, to some degree or another yearns for freedom. So because the message is diverse of course the crowd it appeals to will be just as diverse.

Your strawman attempts are rather pointless in this case.

If the challenges of effectively wielding the english language for civil discourse is getting the best of you, perhaps there is another language we should pursue.

Look, I can use the English language just fine. But people who obsess about language and hijack policy discussions with stupid arguments about terminology simply prove themselves to be unserious people who don't have any business getting anywhere near policymaking.

And as long as you guys have proven yourself unserious, I see no reason not to continue to call Mr. (not Dr.) Paul an isolationist. Just because it pisses you guys off.

@ Jason,


In a vacuum, assuming Paul had unlimited power to effect change(which is the antithesis of his platform, but im trying to get at what you are alluding to), the government would be entirely uninvolved in the decision to sale or not sale arms to Sudan of any sort,(unless we were at war with that country, which is handled in the constitution)

Of course, you already knew the answer to that question. I'd also like to point out that in WW2, congress voted to declare war, thus, based on Paul's platform, the US would have still engaged Germany.

What we wouldn't have done was imprison thousands of Japanese-Americans.

In response to Carolina, I don't consider "paulites" to be deluded at all. As a member of the U.S. military, I took an oath to protect the Constitution against all enemies, foreign AND domestic. It is not so crazy an idea to realize that when one's individual liberties are being trampled in the name of "homeland security", the ONLY noble action is protest and dissent. When fighting wars and maintaining bases overseas that we clearly cannot afford, is it such a "deluded" idea to consider that we use the U.S. military for its intended purpose... the protection of OUR country??
Supporters of Ron Paul aren't some sort of wacky cult... they're just a group of people who choose not to believe everything the government and mainstream media try forcefeeding us. We take our views from history and literature, not conspiracy and conjecture.
Don't let fear of another 9-11 lead to sacrifice of the individual freedoms and the rights to privacy that myself and many like myself have sworn to protect.

@ Dilan,

I wouldn't say it pisses me off, it's more a mischaracterization of the subject matter.

If your goal is to spin the topic in your favor, or a bold attempt to "win" at the internet, then by all means continue.

If your goal is to effect honest discourse, and exchange views civilly, then you're really handicapping yourself by not making the basic distinction in terms.

The distinction is meaningful, and has it's place in any meaningful discussion. For example, i too am against isolationist policies.

@ Dilan:

"I see no reason not to continue to call Mr. (not Dr.) Paul an isolationist. Just because it pisses you guys off."
Posted by Dilan Esper | November 6, 2007 4:05 PM

So Dilan, you concede there is a difference then between isolationist and non-interventionist, and that Ron Paul is not an isolationist. But you'll continue to say so anyway just to piss of RP supporters. How very intellectual, and mature of you. By the way which candidate do you support?

I'm thinking Dilan is a Guiliani man. Seems like the type.

Carolina, your post couldn't have been more flawed.


Dr. Paul has never been associated with the 9/11 Truthers or anti-war kooks; What you're seeing is a handful of individual wackos who are trying to exploit his campaign. But they're not representative of the supporters of Paul as a whole, most of whom are just ordinary folks from all walks of life.

Whether or not Paul wins the nomination is not the issue. What Paul is doing is shifting the debate paradigm back to the right, after years of it being watered down and moving to the socialist left. He's already won, in a sense, and he has single-handedly saved the GOP from extinction.

Dr. Paul has stated a million times that he will not run as a 3rd party or independent candidate. He personally told his wife of 50 years this. Furthermore, he is running simultaneously for his House seat again, so a 3rd party run would complicate matters.

But even if he does run 3rd party, why do you care? It's funny how you guys will rip on Paul but deep down are worried that he will run and drive a stake through the GOP nominee and give Hillary the victory. Actually, if he ran as a 3rd party candidate, especially if the GOP nominates that turd Rudy, he would defeat both Rudy and Hillary. Do you honestly think Paul's supporters are going to cheerfully vote for whoever the GOP nominee is?

I'm thinking Dilan is a Guiliani man. Seems like the type.

I'm closer to Barack Obama and Bill Richardson. And I actually have a fair amount of sympathy with Mr. Paul's isolationist foreign policy views.

As I said, I just love the whining, "waah waah waah, you called our candidate isolationist and it's not fair".

Get over yourselves. If you think Ron Paul should be elected President, make arguments on his behalf and stop whining just because someone calls him an isolationist.

If you're going to trash a gadfly, at least get it right or else you really look like an idiot.

Dennis Kucinich never called to replace the Department of Defense with a Department of Peace. He says it is only for preventative measures and as a supplement to.

This is what happens when bloggers take shortcuts to thinking and reading.

These Ron Paul supporters are booooooring. Ross, please leave this topic alone. I can't take these weirdos.

podhoetz,

The "brainless pacifist" reference is, I'm sure, meant to be an applause button for your audience; you should understand that referring to people who are smarter than you in such a way highlights this otherwise subtle fact.

Who'd have thought that a mainstream Republican with a classically conservative message would end up sounding so liberal that he is accused of being a radical, and by others as, "certifiably crazy"? I guess this illustrates just how far the neo-cons have dragged this country into the bottomless pit of avarice, fear, and greed. After hearing Ron Paul's views, some of which I do not agree with, I realize that as president, he may do things that will piss me off. At least I'll be pissed off in a free country and will not have to fear being arrested for voicing my opinions. This leaves me with no other choice than to become a registered Republican so I can enjoy the honor and privilege of voting for him.

Maybe if Paul was a Mormon or dressed in drag he could garner more support from the GOP

And now Neal Boorts is quoting from this piece on his radio show. Wonder what he's up to with that? Could Neal be bought? Don't know who he'd support but it wouldn't be Ron Paul.

I have seen this word "isolationist" bandied about by the nitwits too many times. Ron Paul is not an "isolationist", he is a non-interventionist. There are fundamental differences. For these meat-brained neocons who can only think about international relations in terms of who the US will invade and overtrow next, they can only equate a non-interventionist with an isolationist. Ron Paul clearly advocates a sensible foreign policy which includes diplomatic relations and trade with other nations, while avoiding the endangering entanglements and military alliances, as the founding fathers would have envisioned healthy foreign relations.

Does that mean a Ron Paul administration would or would not approve the sale of helicopter gunships to Sudan?


Posted by Jason | November 6, 2007 3:55 PM

Jason,

Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution: “The Congress shall have Power…To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;…”

I cannot speak for Ron Paul. But, seeing as how he tends to follow that document pretty rigorously; the most likely answer is that he’d see that decision as the domain of the Congress, not the Executive.

If Congress did not prohibit it, the scenario you proposed would be legal.

I have seen this word "isolationist" bandied about by the nitwits too many times. Ron Paul is not an "isolationist", he is a non-interventionist. There are fundamental differences. For these meat-brained neocons who can only think about international relations in terms of who the US will invade and overtrow next, they can only equate a non-interventionist with an isolationist. Ron Paul clearly advocates a sensible foreign policy which includes diplomatic relations and trade with other nations, while avoiding the endangering entanglements and military alliances, as the founding fathers would have envisioned healthy foreign relations.

Wow, Poor Richard, you are late with the talking points.

By the way, that's another reason not to take you guys seriously. Mindlessly repeating talking points is a sure sign that a person has nothing useful to contribute to the dialogue.

Just to continue to piss you guys off, Mr. (not Dr.) Paul is an isolationist!

If anyone wants to remain in denial that Ron Paul is winning that is up to them. I think all of the supporters of Dr. Paul can proceed to another chat. The writer here has done his job and we should celebrate that we are atleast making the old media and the hacks of corporate candidates terrified. Freedom rang very loud yesterday but trying to convince people who are dead set against Dr. Paul is unproductive. I would recommend going Door-to-Door and passing out flyers or DVD's to introduce people who would actually take him serious.

Gee, Dilan, you forgot to stick your tongue out and go 'Neener, neener, neener' when you call Dr. Paul an isolationist.

We're gonna support the Dem nominee - but Pod and Frum are being insincere when they discuss Paul - They fear him more than they let on and they are only floating memes to see if they can get a counter-narrative going.

Pod knows that Paul is not an "isolationist." He's trying to pin that code word on him.

Wait a minute... I've heard this before!
M: No you did not.
A: Yes I did.
M: No you didn't.
A: Yes I did.
M: No you didn't.
A: Yes I did.
M: No you didn't.
A: Yes I did.
M: You didn't.
A: Did.
M: Oh look, this isn't an argument.
A: Yes it is.
M: No it isn't. It's just contradiction.
A: No it isn't.
M: It is!
A: It is not.
M: Look, you just contradicted me.
A: I did not.
M: Oh you did!!
A: No, no, no.
M: You did just then.
A: Nonsense!
M: Oh, this is futile!
A: No it isn't.
M: I came here for a good argument.
A: No you didn't; no, you came here for an argument.
M: An argument isn't just contradiction.
A: It can be.
M: No it can't. An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition.
A: No it isn't.
M: Yes it is! It's not just contradiction.
A: Look, if I argue with you, I must take up a contrary position.
M: Yes, but that's not just saying 'No it isn't.'
A: Yes it is!
M: No it isn't!

A: Yes it is!
M: Argument is an intellectual process. Contradiction is just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
(short pause)
A: No it isn't.
M: It is.
A: Not at all.

Dr. Ron Paul is not an isolationist and ross douthat is not a journalist.

Mr. Ron Paul (again, his being a doctor is irrelevant to the Presidential election; he's not going to ask us to open up and say aah) is an isolationist. But more important, the fact that you guys keep on harping on this talking point over and over again shows that there is no intellectual depth behind the support of Ron Paul. You are not providing arguments about his candidacy. You are just pissing over labels.

So yes, Mr. Paul is an isolationist.

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Dilan,

Why are you so upset over Dr. Paul being a doctor and being called, "Dr"?

Are you not "pissing over labels"?

See, labels are important even to you.

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