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The Derision It Deserves

11 Nov 2007 08:46 pm

It's rare that you encounter a bad movie whose badness deserves no analysis, no interpretation, no exculpatory comments - nothing but pure, unadulterated derision. Lions for Lambs, however, is such a movie. Indeed, I fear that mere words can't begin to convey its unmitigated awfulness. I give it my best shot in the next NR, and I've been impressed by the efforts turned in by Chris Orr, Dana Stevens, and the Onion A/V Club. But I think John Podhoretz has really hit the sweet spot. I tried quoting the movie's dialogue in an effort to establish the film's utter risibility, but I think he's hit on a better method: Deadpan plot summary. Consider the following passage (spoilers below):

After Cruise gets a phone call informing him that the new strategy is already a failure because Redford's two students are bleeding on the mountain, he turns to her and speaks the truth. He is tired of America being humiliated, he says. She leaves his office, begins to hyperventilate, and tells her boss that Cruise is going to become the next president and use nuclear weapons on unsuspecting Muslims. Her boss tells her to write up the news without mentioning the whole nuclear-weapons thing. She says she will not be a vehicle for warmongering propaganda the way the entire news media were the last time. He says she'd better, or Streep's sick mother will no longer be able to receive 24-hour care.

This is not a right-wing critic trying to make an anti-war movie sound stupid. This is literally what happens in the film.

Comments (21)

This is not a right-wing critic trying to make an anti-war movie sound stupid. This is literally what happens in the film.

So it's a documentary?

The high point in a long litany of atrocities was Redford's character spouting that "Rome is burning!" It combines the cliched and vacuous lefty call to action with the idiotic rightist insistence that terrorism is a world-historical threat and caps it off with the narcissistic exhortation that overprivileged college kids should somehow form a foreign policy bucket brigade. It's truly a sublime synthesis.

I'm getting a little tired of these types of post-9/11 terror-war movies, as they rarely add to the public conversation and (in the case of this movie) usually serve to discredit opposing viewpoints about the issues.

The only show/movie that has actually made a point worth making about our present situation was Battlestar Galactica. It looked closely at the politics of insurgency and actually introduced a few issues and asked a few questions that could have enhanced the public debate (if it were more widely watched, I suppose). Other then that, all your Renditions and Kingdoms don't really do much to help things.

It's interesting that the crop of anti-war movies this fall seem to be not only doing poorly at the box office but receiving poor reviews from critics as well. Rendition has a 45% rating on Rotten Tomatoes and Lions for Lambs has 27%, barely above stuff like Balls of Fury and Fred Claus. In the Valley of Elah as 69%, but I think I remember some scathing reviews of it. The upcoming Redacted has 57% so far.

There's definitely a left-right coalition against Lions for Lambs. It makes everyone look like idiots.

Did Ross really think that he was going to enjoy this movie?

Did Ross really think that he was going to enjoy this movie?

No, I'm quite sure he didn't.

It's interesting that the crop of anti-war movies this fall seem to be not only doing poorly at the box office but receiving poor reviews from critics as well. Rendition has a 45% rating on Rotten Tomatoes and Lions for Lambs has 27%, barely above stuff like Balls of Fury and Fred Claus.
So people don't go see movies that suck? Shocking. I'll admit I liked Balls of Fury. I can't get the line "I'm going to save the panda" out of my head, and it's been months.

Am I the only one who actually thought this film was great?

"Am I the only one who actually thought this film was great?"

I really hope you were the only one. This movie was the biggest pile of flaming excrement I have seen in years.

My poly-sci professor at Murray State took our class to this and we loved it!I You all are cycnical, the reason things have got so bad. We are the future, and WE WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!!

Your poli-sci class went to see it? Is this the best your teacher could up with for a curriculum?

To borrow from C. Hitchens (commenting on another film):

To describe this film as a piece of crap would be to run the risk of a discourse that would never again rise above the excremental.

"We are the future, and WE WILL MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!!"

First, RANDOM CAPITALIZATIONS and EXCESSIVE use of PUNCTUATION much????!?!?!?!?!

Not exactly as impressive as you might have thought. More often to be the signs of a raving loon than used for emphasis.

Second, what kind of difference? Is it going to be better than what we have now, or worse? In what way? Bumper sticker slogans with no details, no goals, no specifics, nothing but general platitudes don't generally count for useful discussion.

"You all are cycnical, the reason things have got so bad."

So, the Government is lying to you, the papers can't be trusted with the truth, War is bad; and the real problem is cynicism and people need to be more trusting?

And if only we'd understand to be less cynical while also specifically distrusting the Government and the Media (as the movie lectures) but still not being cynical (I'm guessing, not being cynical of the movie lecturing us to be more cynical of others)... hunh?

Really, cynicism is the reason things have gotten so bad; that and idiots trusting the lying Government and Media? Or did you not watch the movie?

I'd say he has bit of competition from the Green Berets and some of those Wayne communist hunting movies in the fifties/sixties. Big Dan McGrew was one of them called or something similar. I haven't seen this one so it's hard to comment. Sounds like it's a litany of truths delivered in an over earnest manner so the usual suspects have to dump on it. Time was when truths delivered in an earnest manner (Young Mr Lincoln, The Quiet Man) got universal Republican approval. Perhaps we've now moved into their new reality where torture is good (Bauer is the hero), secret prisons are to be applauded( Ivan Denisovitch as threat), and fear is the norm (The Shining). Any questioning of this new reality is dealt with by (READ ABOVE CRITIQUE)

Dare I suggest that the Poli Sci professor from above might find a tutoring class on how to write cogently a more worthwhile use of his class time?

Perhaps we've now moved into their new reality where torture is good

Let me ask you a question, John Hartford. What if you could have stopped the 9/11 attacks from happening by giving an order that would result in 19 scumbags getting shot in the back of the head -- completely in violation of all sorts of laws, of course. Illegal, unethical, the whole nine yards.

But as a thought exercise, imagine if that were the only way to stop the 9/11 attacks you knew were coming. Are you going to execute 19 men without trial, or are you going to let two buildings in Manhattan burn and three thousand innocents die?

Me, well, I'm willing to see 19 wannabe murderers die to save three thousand of my countrymen. How the hell could any decent person do anything different?

Now. Suppose that by torturing a terrorist, you might be able to save the lives of U.S. servicemen or Iraqi civilians. How can you not torture when you're already willing to kill?

And don't even try to tell me that torture isn't effective in garnering information; there's over two thousand years of recorded history telling you that's a load of crap.

Sure, Lewis, in your thought exercise I'd execute the 19 men. Then I'd use my newfound omniscience to evacuate New Orleans. Afterwards, I'd have myself declared President for Life.

Now, here's a thought experiment for you, and in this one, you're not a demigod. You're a jailer at a secret prison. Several men are brought in. You're not told the specific charges against them (you're just a jailer, after all). However, you suspect that they're terrorists. Do you torture them to get any information you can, even though it's unsanctioned? After all, lives could be at stake.

And out of curiosity, does your answer change if you know that torture IS sanctioned?

If you're the future, Sage, I'm selling my bonds.

Very interesting... as always! Cheers from -Switzerland-.

If 'lions' is rubbish

Does anyone have any advice on some good political movies, books, for a future political scientist, well i am about to embark on my undergraduate year in september.

to quote redford in 'the way we were' i dont really want any 'college politics' rather some real adult leads; something to get my teeth into

plus, what are peoples views on chomsky?