« The Talent in the Room | Main | Stuck in a Moment »

Anti-Intellectualism, the Right, and Rudy

17 Dec 2007 10:10 am

David Frum, on populism and anti-intellectualism:

Conservatives have drawn strength from populism. But you can overdo any good thing —and I am beginning to think that on this one, we've zoomed the car into the red zone.

For me, the lights started flashing in 2005, during the battle over the nomination of Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court of the United States. Defenders of the president's under-qualified nominee began attacking the concept of qualification. One wrote: "The GOP is not the party which idolizes Ivy League acceptability as the criterion of intellectual and mental fitness. Nor does the Supreme Court ideally consist of the nine greatest legal scholars." Harriet Miers, we were told, had a good Christian heart. That was enough ... In the end, it was not quite enough for Ms. Miers. But it may be enough for many voters in 2008.

The currently front-running candidate in Iowa, former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee, has built his campaign on a plan to abolish the Internal Revenue Service and replace the federal income tax with a national sales tax ... Economists and tax experts virtually unanimously agree that the plan is beyond unworkable -- that it is downright absurd.

... Just a little lower down in the polls is a libertarian candidate named Ron Paul. Paul is best known for his vehemently isolationist foreign policy views. But his core supporters also thrill to his self-taught monetary views, which amount to a rejection of everything taught by modern economists from Alfred Marshall to Milton Friedman.

Huckabee and Paul have not the faintest idea of what they are talking about. The problem is not that their answers are wrong -- that can happen to anyone. The problem is that they don't understand the questions, and are too lazy or too arrogant to learn.

Fair points all: Huckabee's Fair Tax zeal and Paul's anti-Fed enthusiasm are genuinely foolish; there is a touch of Miers-ish identity politics in the evangelical community's Huckaphilia, and Frum's larger worry about anti-intellectualism in the contemporary Right is one I share in spades. But if you're going to be hard on the current crop of Republican candidates for making bogus claims about public policy, it seems awfully unfair to leave out the candidate given to running ads in which he announces: "I know that reducing taxes produces more revenue. The Democrats don't know that. They don't believe that." (They don't believe it, of course, because in the current fiscal landscape you can't find a serious conservative economist who thinks it's true.) Or penning op-eds in which he explains that "the meaning of fiscal conservatism" includes the principle that "lower taxes can result in higher revenue." Or telling a GOP debate audience, in response to a question about whether we need to raise taxes to fix up our nation's transportation infrastructure, that the way “to do it sometimes is to reduce taxes and raise more money.”

Now it’s true that occasionally Rudy Giuliani hedges his bets (“sometimes,” “can,” and so forth) on this topic, and it’s true as well that he may not actually believe the extreme supply-side talking points he’s spouting, in the way that Huckabee presumably believes in the Fair Tax and Paul in the gold standard. On the other hand, neither of those ideas are likely to serve as the basis for economic policy in the United States any time soon, and both are marginal even within the right-wing coalition; the “tax cuts raise revenue” canard that Giuliani keeps promoting, on the other hand, is a staple of Bush Administration rhetoric and probably the dominant view among movement conservatives. If you’re looking for cases where the Right’s anti-elitism has shaded into outright anti-intellectualism - for cases where, in Frum's words, a GOP politician has deliberately failed to "study the problem, master the evidence, and face criticism" - Giuliani’s frequent channeling of Larry Kudlow seems like at least as telling an example as anything Mike Huckabee and Ron Paul are peddling.

Share This

TrackBack

TrackBack URL for this entry:
http://rossdouthat.theatlantic.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-tb.cgi/18138

Comments (79)

As I'm sure you know, but chose not to report, Ron Paul is NOT an isolationist. He doesn't believe in invading sovereign nations or having 700 military bases overseas, especially when having those bases gives terrorists further excuse to hate Americans, thereby making us more unsafe. Ron Paul believes in trading with other countries, being friends with them, but not interfere in their domestic problems.

Throwing bombs at Ron Paul with not a fact in sight. You must be a Bush lackey.

Who are these chimpanzees making blogs or news articles?

Why do such a thing with no research or understanding prior to hitting the submit button?

Please educate yourself on the difference between isolationism and non-intervention, there's a massive difference.

Ron Paul is a non-internentionist, him wanting to trade with Cuba, Venezuela, Iran and other countries makes him far from being an isolationist.

David Frum is a hack who is nothing but a shill for the Bush administration and its destructive policies.

What's ironic is that as a Canadian citizen, he can't even vote! Go back to Canada and take Richard Perle with you!

Its unfortunate the all the Atlantic blogs are linked directly from Google News, seem to attract the Paul bots in spades.

Ron Paul is not an isolationist!! He is a non-interventionist.

How many times do we have to say it?

And if being agianst the Federal Reserve (which has been the cause of all the inflation and the housing bust) is "foolish" then we can't afford to be "wise".

Even Jim Cramer of Mad Money has been railing against the Fed. Is he a fool? How about Gary north? Richard Dougherty?

When, oh when, will we have and end to argumentum ad hominem? Simply claiming Ron Paul's positions are foolish means nothing. How about some reasons why wanting to abolish the Federal Reserve (a private company that is no more "Federal" than Federal Express) is foolish?

Later.

Giuliani’s frequent channeling of Larry Kudlow seems like at least as telling an example as anything Mike Huckabee and Ron Paul are peddling.

Nice post, Ross. I was wondering if anyone on your side would point out something like this. Gawd, Frum's a bitch.

"Its unfortunate the all the Atlantic blogs are linked directly from Google News, seem to attract the Paul bots in spades." ~Jesse

With misleading articles like the above one, it would indeed be fortunate if the Atlantic blog had no links and thus no readers.

Give us the truth.

The problem with Frum's criticism of Paul on monetary issues is that Paul cribs his positions wholesale from Von Mises, Hayek, and Rothbard. It seems more than a little unfair to accuse a candidate of anti-intellectualism and use as evidence the fact that the candidate agrees with the arguments of professional economists, including a Nobel Prize winner.

The views of the Austrian school are currently minority views in the field, but lining up in that minority does not make you anti-intellectual. Frankly it probably is a better marker for the opposite.

Milton Friedman SUPPORTED RON PAUL !

Some of Dr. Ron Paul's many supporters:

"We very badly need to have more Representatives in the House who understand in a principled way the importance of property rights and religious freedom for the preservation and extension of human freedom in general ...l wish you every success." --Dr. Milton Friedman, Nobel prize recipient, economics

"Ron Paul is one of the outstanding leaders fighting for a stronger national defense. As a former Air Force officer, he knows well the needs of our armed forces, and he always puts them first. We need to keep him fighting for our country." --U.S. President Ronald Reagan

"Rep. Paul has a record of philosophical consistency unmatched in recent congressional history. He seeks to limit government at practically every turn. His refusal to compromise is legendary." --John Brady and Bob McAdam, The Wall Street Journal

"Congressman Ron Paul is a true friend of small business... He is committed to a pro-small-business agenda of affordable health insurance, lower taxes, tort reform, and the elimination of burdensome mandates." -- Jack Farris, President, National Federation of Independent Businesses

"Paul is best known for his vehemently isolationist foreign policy views."

Please get your facts straight or stay away from the keyboard. Dr. Paul has corrected people like you time and time again. He stands for non-intervention, not isolation.

""Paul is best known for his vehemently isolationist foreign policy views."

Please get your facts straight or stay away from the keyboard. Dr. Paul has corrected people like you time and time again. He stands for non-intervention, not isolation. "

The epitome of Paul spam bot, the Google News preview of this post has the quoted line. Never mind that the author of the post didn't write or even endorse it. Paul spam bots have to many other sites to spam to bother actually reading anything.

1.do your research
2.educate yourself
3.stop the outright slander

Paul is anti-isolationist. America is CURRENTLY isolationist. Paul wants to fix that.

Well, Jesse, Ross quotes Frum not to rebut his statements, but merely to say that Rudy is anti-intellectual, "too".

From that I am forced to conclude that he accepts Frum's argument but wants to extend it to Giuliani.

And while I can accept that Mr. "I went to college for two years and then got a fake job as a con artist / Baptist minister, and by the way I think the Earth is 6000 years old" Huckabee is a good target for the anti-intellectual jibe, I'd have to say that extending that criticism to Paul OR [as much as I hate him] Rudy. Paul is an MD whose "odd" views arise from the fact that he's a compulsive autodidact with regard to economics and political philosophy, who peppers his supposedly populist speeches with references to Spooner and Galatin and Hayek. It's like accusing a left-wing politician who talks to audiences about Adorno and Sartre of being anti-intellectual. And Rudy is a former US attorney and urban sophisticate whose "populism" doesn't extend much farther than bashing politically unpopular art. It's just ridiculous to put them all in the same category.

Ok, you people have figured out about blogging. But you have to realize, its not blogging itself that hurts the Neoconservative movement. You can't beat Ron Paul just by starting to write bloggs.

It is all about truth and intelligence. That is what you need to copy.

Ron Paul is not an isolationist!! He is a non-interventionist.

How many times do we have to say it?

I don't know, but you assholes certainly seem to be trying to set the record for the most times you can say it IN ONE COMMENTS THREAD.

I get the fucking point already.

And before you chimps start hurling dung at me (not that anything would stop you): I like Ron Paul. I'm very seriously considering voting for Ron Paul. But when I see the cultish behavior and mob mentality of his supporters in comment threads like this his appeal even as a protest candidate diminishes considerably.

Well, for all those bloggers out there who get paid or whose ad rate is determined by number of page hits and comments posted, the key is clearly to post something critical about Ron Paul and you will be a millionaire within a few weeks.

In fact, I think I may start a new blog servicing consultancy using this core strategy advice and begin spamming everyone's email in box with my promotional material.

Two words: Laffer curve.

I think that Giuliani would be a disastrous president, but his statement that a tax cut can lead to greater revenue is not some kooky theory. Most economists of all stripes would agree that given certain conditions a tax cut will lead to growth in government revenue.

I generally enjoy Atlantic's intelligent commentary, but for a person in your position to be so ignorant of fairly easy to grasp economic theory and yet feel comfortable in referring to it as a "canard"...well, it makes me wonder how you can consider yourself a journalist. Isn't research part of your job?

Paul knows nothing about monetary policy? At least he realizes that inflation redistributes wealth and is willing to question the authority of the Fed, which most everyone else has elevated to the status of some sort of priesthood. Funny to pick on Paul when you have McCain on stage spouting nonsense like 'I think interest rates should be zero'. Now, if you want to pick on Paul as someone who makes a good show of being an expert but is actually wrong, that would be one thing. But he's hardly a poster boy of anti-intellectualism.
Of course Frum's real agenda is as always foreign policy. His inclusion of Paul here is just a gratuitous slam against someone whose ideas on America abroad are anathema to Frum; it has nothing to do with his supposed thesis.

That's funny! And what do the modern economist believe in keynesian economics? Because as a previous comment stated Milton Friedman was a Ron Paul supporter. Milton Friedman (chicago school of economics) was also concerned about sound money and the feds artifical setting of the interst rate. Although Friedman was not sold on the idea of returning to the gold standard, he agreed alot more with Ron Paul's Austin Economics then he did with the keynesian economics that is bankrupting our country.

Is "Ron Paul's Austin Economics" a
1. statement of a new Austin [Texas] school of economics? Where in Texas is the district that Paul represents?
2. a contraction of "Austrian" school of economics?
3. a misspelling a new "autism" school of economics?

Just when it looks like America is beginning to turn sane again, and even conservatives are starting to recognize the perils of electing self-taught crackpots as President, you get a comment thread like this to remind you of the armies of insane kooks sitting out there waiting for the next batshit old white guy to give them the loopy "straight talk" they crave. Can't these people just keep voting for Ross Perot ad infinitum, instead of hauling out a new weirdo every 4 to 8 years?

This thread displays much that's wrong with contemporary conservatism. Not that you couldn't find a similar thread on, say, Atrios, displaying the same about contemporary liberalism.

Is this a symptom of our times, a symptom of a sick nation, or just symptomatic of the human condition (and just displayed more vividly because of the internet). I'd be inclined to say a little of all three.

hahaha, Mom, look at all the Paultards.

Not that you couldn't find a similar thread on, say, Atrios, displaying the same about contemporary liberalism.

I really don't think that's true, LarryM. If for no other reason than that they've been out of power, the grass-roots left is currently more substantively adept than the grass-roots right.

That said, the Paulbots do have something of a point here-- or rather, they would, if there were a shred of evidence in this post that Ross shares Frum's view that Paul is an "isolationist."

I'm trying to understand this article. Is there more to it beyond "Republicans are craaaazy" ?

Addressing fundamental monetary and fiscal reform might be something that only a few people feel the need to really study and learn about, but does that mean that those who do not comment on it and presumably support the status quo are more intellectual?

The international investment markets state daily that our monetary and fiscal policies aren't going to last. Why is offering alternatives "anti-intellectual?" If anything, its the ideas on the margin that are not necessarily well understood or popular that are in the realm of academic advancement.

So why are these positions so misunderstood? Is it because the only proposed alternatives to the failing status quo have been reduced to three word catch-phrases that are known to evoke a negative reaction...?

Isolationism!
Fair Tax zeal!
anti-Fed enthusiasm!

Ross,

Perhaps part of the problem is that the wailing about "liberal elitism" was always just a marketing tool in the first place, designed as a fig leaf to hide the anti-blue-collar policies of conservatives from the left's traditional constituencies. Unfortunately, so many people bought the idea that book learnin' ain't all that and that those who argue that wanting the best person for the job makes one an "elite, effete snob"--per Karl Rove--that the Republican party has become the Official Party of Stupid.

Is that an elitist point of view? I don't think so. I think it's a pretty honest assessment of the problems the right faces today.

Consider the house organs of conservatism which continue to publish screeds about "liberal elitism" yet run on primogeniture, giving control to those who have known only ivory-covered degrees, neocon cocktail parties and cushy sinecures (see Jonah Goldberg, John Podhoretz, William Kristol and others). None of these men have achieved something individually or had a job that wasn't based on their last names. Only recently, for example, Goldberg, the author of the new "Liberal Fascism," approvingly quoted a bit by Evelyn Waugh defending actual fascism. When the standards of the right have fallen from W.F. Buckley to complete, idiotic B.S., there are going to be problems in Republicantown--especially when the country is starting to think that smart, competent and educated might be important leadership traits after all.

Mr. Elvisberg: well, Douthat does follow the extended quote from Frum by saying "Fair points all."

Still, the pile-on by Paul defenders on this point is a bit off point.

Forget who you are for and who you are against - the writer of this article is hard to take seriously:

"...Economists and tax experts virtually unanimously agree that the plan is beyond unworkable -- that it is downright absurd."

What is that? Elitism

MB-
Oh yes! The idea that experts are more knowledgeable about the subject that they are experts on than the public is elitism. How obtuse.

Ross, you said "...you can't find a serious conservative economist who thinks it's true" regarding the statement "lower taxes can result in higher revenue". Wrong. Milton Friedman did think the statement could be true. It depends on where the current tax rate sits on the Laffer curve. If cutting tax rates either increases OR decreases tax revenue, we have a less-than-optimum tax rate. Friedman's quote to this effect: "If cutting taxes raises government revenues, then you haven't cut taxes enough".

Without the bigets and wackos the repugnatans would never win an election,so what else is new!

catspaw-

Did you even read Ross' post? You are attribute that quote you took from Ross to a statement he never made. Nice try, but we can actually look up what Ross wrote. Literally. Just scroll up the page.


Here is what he wrote:
""I know that reducing taxes produces more revenue. The Democrats don't know that. They don't believe that." (They don't believe it, of course, because in the current fiscal landscape you can't find a serious conservative economist who thinks it's true.)"

He then goes on to mention how "occasionally Rudy Giuliani hedges his bets (“sometimes,” “can,” and so forth) on this topic."

PAUL FANS MUST VOTE FOR HUCKABEE TO HAVE A SHOT AT THE FAIRTAX BECOMING REALITY. BY THE WAY, WHO ARE YOUR "ECONOMISTS AND TAX EXPERTS".

Ron Paul is not an isolationist!! He is a non-interventionist.

How many times do we have to say it?

People who aren't going to support Ron Paul are not bound by the labels that his supporters choose to use for his platform. How many times do we have to say it?

Rickm -

No big thing, it's just I can't buy it ("experts virtually unanimously agree") until I see it. What I have seen is a petition signed by fairly impressive group in support of fair tax. Included in the group of supporters are economic experts from the following institutions:

University of Chicago, Boston University, Duke University, Pepperdine University, Emory University, Louisiana State University, University of Maryland, Western Michigan University, Arizona State University, University of Georgia, University of Alaska, University of Idaho, Indiana University of Pennsylvania, Oberlin College, Missouri Western State College, University of Illinois, Southern Illinois University, Kutztown University, Towson University, Barton College, The University of Louisiana-Monroe, University of North Carolina, Louisiana State University, Virginia Tech, University of Dayton, University of Nebraska, University of Missouri, University of North Carolina, University of Delaware, Richards College of Business, Southern Methodist University, Rutgers University, Santa Clara University, University of Michigan, "University of California Irvine, Old Dominion University, University of Southern California, SUNY at Stony Brook, California State University, William Paterson University of New Jersey, University of North Texas, University of North Carolina, University of Central Florida, Tulane University, Central Methodist University, University of West Georgia, University of Colorado at Denver, John Carroll University, University of Texas-San Antonio, University of California, University of California, Davis, University of Montana, Texas Tech University, Appalachian State University, University of Colorado, Northern Michigan University

Your list?

Economists from those institutions signed off on Huckabee's fair tax plan? Really?

You got it

Do you have a link or just an assertion?

From The Economist:
"But could the plan really work?

"The answer's no," says Bill Gale, director of economic studies at the Brookings Institution. "There is an arithmetic problem. There's a political problem. And then there's an enforcement problem."

From National Review:
"
Then, there’s the rate of the sales tax. FairTaxers say that a 23-percent rate would be enough to replace current revenues. What they really are talking about is a tax of 30 cents on every dollar — what most people would consider a 30-percent rate. The government would pay the tax on all its purchases, a gimmick “done solely to make revenues under the FairTax seem larger than they really are,” writes economist Bruce Bartlett. Budget trickery aside, the congressional Joint Committee on Taxation has estimated that the rate would have to go as high as 57-percent."


So, Frum's use of the word 'unworkable' certainly takes into account politics--I think he likely meant that Huck's tax plan is political unworkable, in addition to economically unworkable.

"Milton Friedman did think the statement could be true. It depends on where the current tax rate sits on the Laffer curve. If cutting tax rates either increases OR decreases tax revenue, we have a less-than-optimum tax rate. Friedman's quote to this effect: "If cutting taxes raises government revenues, then you haven't cut taxes enough"."

It's obvious that in a certain situation that a tax cut could increase revenues. The argument should be would a tax cut in the US increase revenues. BTW, his argument also implies that if tax revenue can increase be caused by an increase in taxes we're at a "less-than-optimum tax rate" so should we be using this same logic for a tax increase?

Ross makes some good points about Giuliani, and similar things could be said about Romney (seven-year contracts for marriage in France?) or Thompson. But I kept wondering, what about Frum's former employer? From Jesus as the world's greatest political philosopher to "Washington math" to WMD's, axis of evil, and global warming denialism, this has surely been the most defiantly and thoroughly anti-intellectual administration in living memory. And now Frum thinks this is a problem, with the country already stuck in two quagmires, an exploding fiscal condition, and blown opportunities to fix problems at home and abroad? The anti-intellectualism whipped up by Frum and his colleagues becomes a problem because of Mike Huckabee? Give me a break.

Wow. I read Frum's pro-Bush book about his year in the White House. I was a big Bush fan at the time (before he signed the radical feminist VAWA/IMBRA laws in 2005). But, even then, I got the impression that he was one of those Canadians who got overly thrilled at a chance to work in a warmer climate. :-)

Implying that Ron Paul supporters are anti-intellectual compared to Bush supporters is really shocking. I support Operation Iraqi Freedom but I could not compare the intellects of RP and GW without seeing a major advantage on the part of RP.

Here is a typical neocon attitude that Ron Paul conservatives intend to do away with, regardless of whether Ron Paul actually gets the Republican nomination:

Texas Republican official on doing sex offender checks on all evacuees placed on buses in emergencies: "We are entitled to privacy but not anonymity".

What?

Anonymity in dealing with others is the corner stone of natural law.

Neocons are hung up about sex (Huckabee condemns wearing Mini-Skirts) and about taking away our right to be anonymous and about regulating the Internet...Ron Paul can pry away even the most hardline war hawks and put them into his camp in the next 3 weeks if he talks about that.

Neocons agree with the Democrats that the US government OWNS its citizens overseas, so we have the new Bush law that says we cannot have Swiss bank accounts with more than $10K without reporting that to the US government. The courts are slowly confirming that US citizens can be charged and tried in US courts for things they do in other countries.

Remember: A lot of Ron Paul supporters are pro-Iraq-War but still see every other candidate as dangerous for our freedoms as citizens.

Rickm -

It's funny you quote Bartlett... He's one of these type we see from time to time who's on a personal crusade for some reason. He's a good guy but has a special interest.

But Listen - every cause has it's detractors and this involves some high level changes for sure - and it's scary. There's alot of things to talk through so people can let their guard down - understandable.

I'd say this thing makes sense and a lot of other people think so too. Check it out and use some critical thought processes to examine if the current system really works. Don't let the crazy Paulies turn you off.

so MB-

Did you have a link to that petition or just a bunch of pabulum?

The moderator has to approve the link before it can be posted here, but you can find it on the fair tax . org site. click "see all rebuttals" at the bottom-left, and then select "an open letter to the president"

From "Rudy: An Investigative Biography of Rudolph Giuliani" by Wayne Barrett on page 34:

"After seven semesters at Bishop Loughlin, Rudy's grade average of 84.8 earned him a ranking of 130, putting him in the class's second quintile. His report cards for those years show columns of mostly B's and C's, a few A's and one D. He scored a 65 in chemistry, a 74 in Latin and a 92 in American history. His combined College Board scores, 569 in verbal and 504 in math, were twenty-seven points shy of 1100, and quite ordinary."

Wayne Barrett is a writer at the Village Voice and professor at the Columbia School of Journalism, if you want to check with the source.

Here's his academic history: "He attended Bishop Loughlin Memorial High School, Manhattan College in the Bronx, and New York University Law School, graduating magna cum laude."

In comparison, George W. Bush scored 1206 and Al Gore 1330 on the SAT. All these scores are under the tougher pre-1995 scoring system. Add 70 or 80 points to get the equivalent under the current scores.

Ron Paul is not an isolationist!! He is a non-interventionist.

Orwell spins in his grave.

How many times do we have to say it?

Only until you believe it.

@Steve Sailer:
Why the SAT scores? Are we really evaluating candidates for President on the basis of a 3 hour test they took when they were 17 years old?
Although if Gore really did get a 1330, what's up with his "smartest guy in the room" act?

It's a country of 300,000,000 people, so there is plenty of talent out there. But our political system isn't good at finding it.

Presidential candidates typically aren't all that smart. Kerry, for example, had a slightly lower GPA at Yale than George W. Bush did, and did slightly worse on the Naval Officers Qualification Test than Bush did on the Air Force Officers Qualification Test.

Steve Sailer
Teflon Ron,
The smears just don't stick, and the language you use to obsure and discredit his fiscal policy just won't fly. He is a great Economist and his views have unfortunatly for America are coming true before our eyes. All the Republican candidates are for the status quo. That means more of the same, inflation, ( a unjust, un-Constitutional poor and middle income tax).

Ross please don't read anymore posts on Ron Paul. It just attracts the loonies when your comment sections is generally filled with worthwhile thoughts.

Re: And if being agianst the Federal Reserve (which has been the cause of all the inflation and the housing bust) is "foolish" then we can't afford to be "wise".

It's one thing to complain about specific decisions the Fed has made: of course it's made bad ones, and they can be criticized just as one can criticize bad laws passed by Congress without wanting to get rid of Congress altogther. That Paul would apparently like to do the latter with the Fed, not just put someone in charge who follows a philosophy more to his liking, is evidence that the guy is off the deep end as much as if he suggested repealing women's suffrage or junking the Air Force.

Ross please don't read anymore posts on Ron Paul. It just attracts the loonies when your comment sections is generally filled with worthwhile thoughts.

What's utterly demented about this thread is that the post in question is an extended attack on Rudy Giuliani. It's dismissive of Paul in passing. But the overall theme is, I think, the last sentence: "Giuliani’s frequent channeling of Larry Kudlow seems like at least as telling an example as anything Mike Huckabee and Ron Paul are peddling."

Call me crazy, but if you support a candidate often dismissed as unserious or weird, and if that candidate is performing respectably in the polls but is not among the leaders, you might consider it helpful when a commentator points out that the front-runners are no more serious or normal than your guy. You might post messages praising the commentator for his insight and his open mind, while casually pointing out that, hey, when you take a closer look you'll see that Ron Paul's just talking common sense.

But no! That flies in the face of the Paul faction's revolutionary mission! The mere mention of Comrade Paul in anything but an entirely flattering light requires swift retribution! In fact, it requires that you attack Douthat for "saying" things that were actually said by David Frum! Because any deviation from the Paulist orthodoxy must be crushed!

This stuff is funny when it's on the fringe, but I have a sneaking suspicion that a President Paul who enjoyed significant popular support would have to restrain his bloodthirsty revolutionary vanguard from guillotining thought criminals on the National Mall.

Or, I suppose, they might prefer to crucify thought criminals on crosses of gold.

I'm just amused that it took roughly 10 Paulbot posts before the first Huckster showed up. Huckabee fans, you snooze, you lose!

The belief that over the long term lower marginal rates of taxation can produce higher revenues from a tax is not anti-intellectual. It is a theory that has worked in the real world many times (whether or current federal tax code is too high is another matter). When candidates are speaking to large crowds they do dumb things down a bit.

That is why I think your comparing Huckabee or Paul to supply-siders is unfair to supply-siders. Lower corporate taxes for instance might raise more revenue. And of course higher luxury tax on boats lowered revenue and nearly destroyed sections of the boat building industry. In other words, I would not confuse ideas nutty in any context with ideas that poorly expressed so as to flatter the listeners bias are not fleshed out as they need to be. That is campaigning.

Also, for all your many gifts Mr.Douthat I think the vast majority of readers would take Kudlow's advice on money and the economy over yours and profit from doing so.

Have a Merry Christmas.

JJV

as much as if he suggested repealing women's suffrage or junking the Air Force.

But really, why *not* junk the Air Force? I mean, doesn't it just stand to reason that if we did that then corporations and more wealthy citizens would stand up and fill the gap in the national security market? Isn't that how markets and free societies work?

</paulbot>

JJV,

"It is a theory that has worked in the real world many times."

Could you give us a couple of examples broader than a luxury tax on boat? And tell us how you know the tax cuts worked?

Tom

I am a little confused. I am sure the writer can clear some things up for me. The writer seems to think RP is way off base, lazy, and doesn't have a clue as to what he is saying. My question to the writer is this, Why is paper money better than gold? OH!!! Wait I have another question. If paper is more desirable than gold why did the US government steal as much as they could from its citizens in the early 30's? Oh!!! one more. What do we gain from being in Iraq? Sorry, last one I promise. What was the price of gas before the lastest edition of the Iraqi war? Think about that. I have to go. I need to send RP some money.

Steve Sailer seems to be a bit of an idiot: "Presidential candidates typically aren't all that smart. Kerry, for example, had a slightly lower GPA at Yale than George W. Bush did, and did slightly worse on the Naval Officers Qualification Test than Bush did on the Air Force Officers Qualification Test."

GPAs couldn't be more meaningless. You'd have to examine the courses actually taken by the two to even begin to have an idea what the GPAs might signify.

This is something anyone with any knowledge of statistics could tell you. Steve Sailer apparently has no such knowledge or is a bought and paid for Repiglican whore repeating their memes from the last election.

Hint: Hitting .300 as a Colorado Rockie is less impressive than hitting .300 as a Los Angeles Dodger. Why is that? Well, Steve Sailer is either too dishonest or too stupid to apply the analysis that would tell you why it's so to other areas.

Why is paper money better than gold?

Because paper fits in vending machines and rocks don't?

This has been another addition of "simple answers to stupid questions". Tune in next time when we discuss the Illuminati plot to join forces with the Trilateral Commission in an effort to help Jewish bankers control the universe.

justinb writes: "This has been another addition of "simple answers to stupid questions". Tune in next time when we discuss the Illuminati plot to join forces with the Trilateral Commission in an effort to help Jewish bankers control the universe."

"Tax cuts grow the economy!"

"Ronnie Reagan won the Cold War!"

"America is a Christian nation!"

There is nothing dumber than a movement conservative, is there? Jeezus effing Hubbard!

Howell Raines, former executive editor of the New York Times, asked: ""Does anyone in America doubt that Kerry has a higher IQ than Bush? I'm sure the candidates' SATs and college transcripts would put Kerry far ahead."

In reality, Kerry, GPA of 76%, was a political science major at Yale from 1962-1966, while Bush, GPA of 77%, was a history major at Yale from 1964-1968. (And they were both members of Skull & Bones.) That's basically the same.

Kerry never mentioned his SAT score, but during their senior years at Yale, they both took Officer Qualification Tests (Navy and Air Force, respectively). Kerry, according to a document released by his campaign, scored at the 50th percentile, while Bush scored at about the 67th percentile.

So, all the objective evidence points toward Kerry and Bush being quite similar cognitively. (Although when Tom Brokaw asked Kerry about my study, the candidate replied that he must have been drinking the night before the test.)

http://www.vdare.com/Sailer/kerry_iq_lower.htm

Were these two guys the best America, a country of 300,000,000, could do in 2004?

I don't know why Steve Sailer talks. Best not to inquire either.

I would be more inclined to sympathize with Ron Paul and his minions if they weren't so obviously... minion-like, I think is the proper term. Of course Frum paints Paul as an isolationist. By Neocon standards, he is one. To Frum, non-interventionism=isolationism. The numerous posts trying to make the crucial distinction between the two are both annoying and unnecessary. Reeking of the odor of insecurity, the campaign to elect Ron Paul would do better without them.

I wonder if Steve Sailer ever wonders how Saint Reagan would have done on an IQ test in 1980?

I'm guessing not.

Ron Paul isn't an isolationist; he's a non-interventionist...

And we don't torture; we use enhanced interrogation techniques...

And that wasn't a murder; it was an extra-judicial killing...

And we didn't kidnap him; it was a quite extraordinary rendition...

And that's not a spade...

I wonder if Steve Sailer ever wonders how Saint Reagan would have done on an IQ test in 1980?

Perhaps as was said of FDR (by Felix Frankfurter iirc) "2nd class intellect but 1st class temperament."

It's Christmas so I'll stipulate that Bush and Kerry meet the former, but the evidence is in and they are both woefully deficient on the latter.

Were these two guys the best America, a country of 300,000,000, could do in 2004?

Mr. Sailer, the most intellectually inclined men to occupy the Presidency since 1914 were (in rough descending order of eruditon) Woodrow Wilson, Herbert Hoover, and Richard Nixon. Is that the luck of the draw, or might it be that raw intelligence is but one factor in the making of an able politician and administrator?

Several difficulties come to mind with regard to Frum's commentary. Harriet Miers was drawn from the elite of the Texas bar, having served as the managing partner of a law firm with in excess of 200 lawyers. She also had an impressive academic record, having graduated first in her law school class. To refer to her as 'underqualified' is to state implicitly that one must have previous service as a judge and/or be a specialist in constitutional law to be a proper nominee. William Dyer ("BeldarBlog"), who speaks with rather more authority than David Frum, made the argument at the time that the court needed leavening by someone who had been a working courtroom lawyer and knew well branches of the law that other justices did not.
William Rehnquist, Lewis Powell, and Robert Jackson had never held any judicial position; the judicial experience of Clarence Thomas and William O. Douglas was largely confined to the adjudicatory functions of regulatory commissions over which they presided; Sandra Day O'Connor was a state judge for but a half-dozen years or so and her career in private practice was pedestrian.


Now consider Frum's remark:

Economists and tax experts virtually unanimously agree that the plan is beyond unworkable -- that it is downright absurd.

The plan Gov. Huckabee has offered may have fixed the hypothetical rate of taxation at the wrong value, but that hardly makes his idea 'absurd'. Proposals for a national consumption taxes of one sort or another (including a national sales tax) have been floated by informed advocates for several decades now. Circa 1985, the American Council for Capital Formation had one plan and the Brookings Institution another. European governments have made use of value added taxes for decades and state and local governments have relied with some success on retail sales taxes for at least as long.

(I do not care for consumption taxes myself).


You can only be truly schooled in one or two academic or vocational disciplines; politicians are generalists and for that reason are prone to be in error much of the time. That having been said, it beggars belief that Gov. Huckabee, who has presided over a state government for a decade, is more ignorant of principles of public finance than David Frum or has anything to learn (on that subject) from David Frum. Mr. Frum is a journeyman writer of no special distinction. If Gov. Huckabee has any questions about the mechanics of magazine journalism, the book trade, or public relations, he can mail questions to Mr. Frum.

What's worse, 'anti-intellectualism' or a thoughtless disrespect for experience and expertise?


It could be that all the economists that Mr. Frumn talks with in Washington, DC think the FairTax unworkable--why wouldn't they--this breaks their lucrative rice bowls and work as high priests in the income tax temple. Other economists (including 80 in an open letter at FairTax.org) think it's the best thing that can happen to taxpayers and the national economy.

Only a Washington insider would believe that a tax system with 67,500 pages of regulations that costs us all $265 billion annually in compliance costs alone and is killing off the "Made in America" label with embedded taxes, makes any sense at all. Raise your hand Mr. Frum.

Even those in Washington, however, might take off the blinders long enough to contemplate the effect of tax system without any corporate or capital gains taxes. America becomes the most desirable business location in the world. Money and jobs come back here for a change (we've lost 10-12 trillion in the last ten years).

No, it's not so great for your friends Mr. Frum, who profit so nicely from the tax code but it's a pretty good idea for the rest of us and our national economy.

"You cannot get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon him not understanding it."

Upton Sinclair,

I believe when it comes to trying to review and evaluate the "qualifications" of any individual, one usually finds that the required experience is often merely a mirror image of the one doing the reviewing.

Frum is a filthy, Trotskyite Zionist who needs to be deported from the US. Shills like Frum are the arch enemies of all REAL conservatives.

neocons delendi sunt

Add 70 or 80 points to get the equivalent under the current scores.

And them multiply by 1.5, since there are now three parts to the SAT instead of two.

I agree with Paleoconservative Peter.

Shorter Frum:

I distrust elites. You are a populist. He is an anti-intellectual lunatic.

America is being undermined on many fronts. The one most eminent is our Bankruptcy. Fueled by War, Empire Maintenance, and Fallacious Spending of congress; The economic Overtaking of America will not be far off. The effects are just now becoming evident. We will be sold to our enemies rather than forced into submission.

Ron Paul is the only candidate running for president that has the vision of the founding fathers of this country ingrained in his heart. Core Character Counts. He is the only one in the field that I would trust my money and my family's safety with.

The honesty and integrity displayed by Ron Paul coupled with the message he espouses is the glue that binds the support together. The word could not do it alone and this is precisely why the media and the others are baffled. The Ron Paul Supporters Value Substance Over Symbolism. We fully believe that Ron Paul will follow his words as his record shows. He is not as the others with Pandering Platitudes.

The commonality with all Americans is the Constitution. This is why his support group can not be pigeon holed in to a specific category. We Are Diverse And Many. There is no singular stereotype that even comes close to the specification of the group.

To help with your education here are some sites I recommend:

www.ronpaul2008.com/about/

www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/

www.ronpaullibrary.org

www.house.gov/paul/

www.lewrockwell.com/paul/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ron_Paul

Think For Yourself; Do Not Be Easily Led.

Views Untested Are Worthless.

To the editor of Atlantic.com

Frum makes up his own imaginary authority about the Fair Tax and then points to it in support of flawed arguments. If one were to ask Frum to identify his "economists and tax experts," who are said to agree that the Fair Tax is unworkable, he would be unable to name a single one. Economists and tax experts, including those who advise the National Retailers Association that opposes the Fair Tax, universally agree that the economy would grow as a result of the Fair Tax. They merely disagree on how much.

The Fair Tax is the product of $23 million worth of research and has grassroots support from a broad spectrum of the public.

~Jim Bennett
Summit, NJ

Mr. Frum attackes Candidates Huckabee and Paul but does not give one concrete example or fact as to why the proposals they advocate will not work.
I love it when "professional" columnists write hit pieces and cannot cite specific examples, or name the "experts" that they allegedly spoke to.
As far as Mr. Frum's assertion that lowering the tax rate does not produce more revenues makes one wonder if he ever took a course in economics. I guess empirical evidence of the last 2,000 years does not make any sense to him. Oh that is right, I forgot, he is an intellectual.
Incidentally if he believes the current tax code would be superior to the Fair Tax, he has my sympathy. It must be tough going thru life living a lie.

To all:

The FairTax HR 25 is absolutely the BEST replacement for
the Federal Tax System.

Anyone who doesn't agree hasn't read (and studied) the
FairTax proposal.

Cliff Cofer
West Des Moines, IA

Post a comment

By using this service you agree not to post material that is obscene, harassing, defamatory, or otherwise objectionable. Although The Atlantic does not monitor comments posted to this site (and has no obligation to), it reserves the right to delete, edit, or move any material that it deems to be in violation of this rule.