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Who Needs Marriage?

11 Dec 2007 11:01 am

A couple weeks ago, remarking on the coexistence of steadily rising illegitimacy with relative social peace over the last decade, Andrew wrote:

... social conservatives have long argued that the breakdown in traditional family structure is the core reason behind other social ills, such as crime. Perhaps it isn't in all social settings. Perhaps living in sin for a while before marriage is actually a social good for some; perhaps lower rates of marriage are not the end of the world - as many victims of awful marriages can attest. Perhaps child-birth outside marriage is not necessarily a bad thing if the relationship is solid and care for the child is secure. Perhaps, in other words, holding the family of the 1950s up as the standard by which all family structure should be measured is not, in fact, very helpful. I don't know, but it seems one obvious inference from the data worth exploring further.

It seems clear from looking at Europe that Andrew's right, up to a point: Child-birth outside marriage doesn't necessarily lead to negative social outcomes "if the relationship is solid and care for the child is secure," which it usually is in countries like Sweden where most children born out of wedlock are still raised in two-parent households. Unfortunately Americans aren't Swedes, and marriage qua marriage tends to be a much more important indicator of well-being, both for children and for parents, in the United States than it does in Europe. Perhaps this will not always be so; perhaps the coexistence, in the 1990s and early Oughts, of falling crime and higher rates of out-of-wedlock births are a leading indicator of the Swedenization of American social norms. But I doubt it, not least because the secondary consequences of family breakdown, persistent inequality and social immobility chief among them, appear to have worsened over the last decade, while support for an expanded welfare state - Swedenization of a different sort! - has risen over the same stretch. It seems more likely that the lesson of the Nineties is that a long economic boom and the end of willfully counterproductive poverty policies can make up for growing social disarray in other areas. And counting on another tech boom or another poverty-fighting reform as successful as the shift from AFDC to TANIF seems like a poor guide to social policy.

All of this is a long way around to noting that the latest numbers on out-of-wedlock births have been released (though they're only receiving attention from immigration opponents, so far as I can tell), and the news is, well, not good: Up among blacks, up among whites, way up among Hispanics. Here's hoping Andrew's right about what this portends, or what it doesn't. But here's betting that he isn't.

Comments (27)

A few points: First, deconstructing the traditional family unit has been the prime objective of the Gay rights crowd for over a generation; everything Sullivan writes on this and many other topics should be read with that in mind.

Second, not all demographics are damaged equally by divorce and illegitimacy. The middle class white kid who doesn't have a father ends up in therapy; the fatherless poor black or hispanic child most likely ends up in a gang and graduates to prison.

Third, if Sullivan wants to hold Europe up as a contra example then look at the state of its' North African/muslim minorities instead of the high achieving, wealthy Scandinavian populations.

Up to which point is Andrew correct, exactly? Give me a break, Ross. You're supposed to be some sort of social conservative. Andrew couldn't be more wrong if he tried. Every social indicator, educational, economic, emotional, how likely a child is to be poor, how likely he or she is to engage in pre-marital sex, how likely he or she is to abuse drugs, etc etc, shows that children fare better inside traditional marriage.

Some research shows that children raised in stepfamilies and cohabiting relationships are far more likely to suffer child abuse than those other family forms. According to Martin Daly and Margot Wilson, "living with a stepparent has turned out to be the most powerful predictor of severe child abuse yet". According to about 70 studies into this area show that up to 50 per cent of girls (yes 50 per cent) with divorced parents report having being molested or sexually abused as children, most often by their mothers' boyfriends or stepfathers.

Yes, after saying Andrew "has a point" you go on to say how important marriage is, in terms of poverty etc. But you concede too much. On the facts, the marriage debate is over. Traditional marriage, the family form being most rapidly eroded by a series of social (and political, as you and Reihan so rightly point out) trends, is the best for children.

Hasn't The Atlantic already had its Christmas Party? So why the need to be so buddy buddy with Sullivan and his absurd hypothosis?

Ross,

The 'Swedenization' of America may be a long shot, after all, Americans aren't Swedes as you point out. But the return to the 1950s morality, no sex before marriage, etc. which some people (not necessarily you) postulate is an even longer shot. Since we are not going back to the 1950s, perhaps we should give more thought as to how we can become more 'Swedenized', i.e. how we can combine the existence of birth control, pre-marital liaisons, etc. with family structures that provide a good environment for children to be raised. I think that would be a more productive discussion than saying that we should get rid of the Pill, etc.

Incidentally, the highest rates of out of wedlock births in the world are in Central American and Caribbean countries, not in Sweden.

I tend to think that untramelled capitalist economics are the biggest factor in the increasing inequality and social misery in America. I would concede that family breakdown is part of it, but probably not the major factor. The nuclear family should absolutely be defended, and protected, but ultimately the only way we are going to solve the problems of the inner city is by a fundamental restructuring of our economy.

The thing that Andrew is right on is that non-marital relationships in Sweden don't appear to have been a disaster for children. (I would point out that Costa Rica, which is painted with some justification by some liberals and conservatives as the ideal, socially peaceful Latin American country, also has apparently the third highest rate of out of wedlock births in the world, it doens't appear to have caused a great deal of social misery there. Perhaps they are more like the Swedes in that regard.)

"... perhaps the coexistence, in the 1990s and early Oughts, of falling crime and higher rates of out-of-wedlock births ..."

Of course you mean 'Aughts'. It's a great slip of the pen, though, considering the subject.

Fodder for everyone here. Liberals get to blame abstinence-based sex ed, conservatives get to blame the feminists and gays, and nationalists get to blame the Mexicans. Everybody wins.

Alternatively, we could consider the theory that the rise in out-of-wedlock births and the decline in the abortion rate are connected. And this may have something to do with the increasing acceptance of the former and stigmatization of the latter. And this isn't really such a bad thing.

Discuss.

If we stipulate that abortion is increasingly stigmatized (I honestly have no idea about this), why would such stigmatization have a significant effect on the abortion rate since most abortions occur at a point in time when people other than the pregnant woman are unlikely to know about the pregancy?

A fair response. Single mothers used to be socially stigmatized, and women sought abortions (at least in part) to avoid this fate. Now, at least anecdotally, it seems to me that increasingly negative attitudes toward abortion go hand in hand with more compassionate attitudes toward single mothers. But it's probably wrong to say that abortion is "stigmatized."

If "stigmatization" is used to include threats and violence against doctors who perform abortions, it makes them less available.

Marriage is a religious function. Not a government service. Hence - no government policies apply when it comes to marriage. Children are another issue that have nothing to do with marriage and a piece of paper.

Tom O'Gorman is correct about the social scientific consensus on family formation. Ross - “Europe is ok with illegitimacy thesis” ignores the very real social consequences of radically low birth rates, high social services, increased need for immigration & de-facto “marriage” cohabitating couples.

It also ignores how welfare state policies are increasingly under attack (even specifically in progressive Sweden)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=495499&in_page_id=1879

The above article is from the daily mail and concerns natalist policies and the increased resistance in Sweden of Mothers having to send their children to subsidized day care.

RE: Immigration and family breakdown.

The best work in this area is by Kay S. Hymowitz & demonstrates how Americas current marriage culture is assimilating new immigrants into the illegitimacy trap so prevalent in our inner cities.

Another generation following the African American underclass in to crime & poverty while white educated elites have designer babies at 40.

Re: First, deconstructing the traditional family unit has been the prime objective of the Gay rights crowd for over a generation; everything Sullivan writes on this and many other topics should be read with that in mind.

While there are some gay radicals who have this on their agenda, one should no more tar all gays with that sort of thing then one should tar all women with the agenda of radical feminists like Andrea Dworkin. Why is this so hard to understand? And Sullivan in particular is a fairly outspoken enemy of gay radicalism, and he is cordially hated by much of the gay political movement.

Re: The middle class white kid who doesn't have a father ends up in therapy; the fatherless poor black or hispanic child most likely ends up in a gang and graduates to prison.

Let's not overgeneralize here either. The majority of Black and Hispanic kids, fathers or no, do NOT end up on drugs or in prison. This is very much the exception not the rule for everyone. Also, for much of human history it was very common for children to lose one parent, sometimes even both. Obvioulsy we must have some social and personal coping mechanisms to compensate for this or civilization would have collapsed centuries ago.

Re: Third, if Sullivan wants to hold Europe up as a contra example then look at the state of its' North African/muslim minorities instead of the high achieving, wealthy Scandinavian populations.

The point raised here is about the effects of the decline of marriage, and in that respect it is indeed appropriate to look to the population that has seen that decline. That's the wealthy Scandinavians, not the Muslim minorities.

Re: According to Martin Daly and Margot Wilson, "living with a stepparent has turned out to be the most powerful predictor of severe child abuse yet".

As someone who lost his mother to cancer when I was 9, and who had and still has a wonderful stepmother, I find these blanket assertions frankly libelous. Most step-parents are decent people trying to do their best for step-kids who have taken an emotional hit from death or divorce. They are not caricatures from a Disney cartoon wearing balck capoes flying on broomsticks. Stop traducing them to feed your political hate machine!

Why is this so hard to understand? And Sullivan in particular is a fairly outspoken enemy of gay radicalism, and he is cordially hated by much of the gay political movement.

One can find Sullivan quotes that support almost any side of an argument. The only thing he is consistent about is his advocacy of same-sex marriage. Thus he uses any opportunity to downplay any putative detrimental effects to marriage that might result from same-sex marriage.

Sullivan aside, it is a fact that anti-marriage radicals are pushing for SSM precisely as a route to weakening traditional marriage. Then there are those who argue that gays want to join the traditional notion of marriage-for-life-to-one partner. They can't both be correct in their assessments about the result of enacting SSM.

I find these blanket assertions frankly libelous

They aren't "blanket" assertions, they are statistical generalizations. Individual experiences by definition won't all follow the average.

America obviously is too large and to diverse to be able to successfully employ the Swedish model.

Not only that, but Sweden cannot successfully employ the Swedish model. The high-tax, cradle-to-grave welfare state is not sustainable for more than a couple of generations.

Re: Sullivan aside, it is a fact that anti-marriage radicals are pushing for SSM precisely as a route to weakening traditional marriage.

Actually no. The truly radical are suspicous of gay marraige since they see it as a way of trapping gays in a moralistic, bourgeois existence. The people pushing for gay marriage generally want to moralize homosexuality, and the radicals do not want them: they want the old sexual free-for-all. But all of that is irrelevant. The existence of gay radicals who hate marriage is no more an argument against gay marraige than the existence of Andrea Dworkin and her sort is an argument against heterosexual marriage, even for Ms Dworkin herself.

Re: They aren't "blanket" assertions, they are statistical generalizations.

Well, there are lies, damn lies and statistics. Out here in the real world the vast majority of step-parents are decent folks no different than you and me (that's just common sense; step-parents are randomly selected from the population as a whole; do you really think the whole population is depraved and wicked, filled with child-abusers and such?)

Re: Not only that, but Sweden cannot successfully employ the Swedish model. The high-tax, cradle-to-grave welfare state is not sustainable for more than a couple of generations.

And the Right has been saying that for quite some time now. Someohow the Swedish welfare state sails serenely on, unaware that its is cheating doom. A sensible person might even conclude that, duh!, it works.

I agree with JonF. The Scandinavian welfare states, actually, are doing quite well. Probably among the few countries whose systems are more or less sustainable in the next century of coming resource shortages.

if there is any set of countries whose systems are 'unsustainable', it would be (for different reasons) the United States for its high energy and resource consumption and severe economic inequalities, and on the other hand Africa and the Muslim world because of their growing populations. Sweden seems to fit into neither category so I'm not sure why it would be considered an unsustainable system.

Jon F,

Here are a few points:

1. Step-parents or boyfriends of single mothers aren't drawn randomly from the population. In the real world, having a kid from a previous relationship makes a woman less actractive to the average guy. However, a woman's having kids is not a turn-off to a pedophile. So, it seems not unreasonable to think that a single mother is at a greater chance of winding up in a relationship with a pedophile than a childless woman.

2. Pedophiles are uncommon, but not rare. You know how often seemingly ordinary guys get caught with child pornography on their computers. If a man and a woman get married and have kids, there's a certain small risk that he is a pedophile. However, if they get divorced and she starts dating seriously, there are going to be more men in the house with access to the kids, and the chance that one of them is an abuser starts to be fairly substantial. Not to mention physical abuse--the risk of physical and sexual abuse are much higher for children from broken homes. This isn't just theory, there are real statistics on step-families, and how in many respects, the average step-family resembles a single parent family more than it does one with two biological parents. Once Humpty-Dumpty (the biological family) breaks, it's really hard to put back together.

3. I bet you've seen one of those nature videos where they tell you that male bears routinely kill bear cubs, because they want to be able to mate with the cubs' mother. Something similar may be going on with people--biologically, there's nothing in it for you to use your resources to raise another man's child. I would hastily add that we are not bears and just because something is natural doesn't make it right, but I think we do need to be aware of underlying biological urges.

John F. & ALL

“The truly radical are suspicous of gay marraige since they see it as a way of trapping gays in a moralistic, bourgeois existence. The people pushing for gay marriage generally want to moralize homosexuality, and the radicals do not want them: they want the old sexual free-for-all. But all of that is irrelevant. The existence of gay radicals who hate marriage is no more an argument against gay marraige than the existence of Andrea Dworkin and her sort is an argument against heterosexual marriage, even for Ms Dworkin herself.”

This is simply not the case.

The “truly radical” make up the bulk of the same-sex “marriage” intellectual force. They have come to terms with the possibility of SS “M” as a way of trapping gays in a moralistic, bourgeois existence and decided that on the whole – the movement for same-sex “marriage” deinstitutionalizes normative family formation.

This is the striking thing about the argument. Those apposed to same-sex “marriage” are in agreement with the most influential proponents of same-sex “marriage”; as to the deleterious effects it would have on the institution. The only difference is that those supporting SS “M” find this deinstitutionalization to be a positive development for society.

My own personal experience in law school revealed the “Family” law department to be made up of three lesbian polyamorists. Nothing in their considerable work on the subject revealed them to be “gay assimilationists” or proponents of monogamy in any form.

Here are two articles outlining the depth of professional agreement. One & Two

My own research confirms this obvious nexus. Indeed the American Law Institute (perhaps the countries premiere legal scholar association) recently released its Law of Family Dissolution on the eve of the Goodridge decision in Massachusetts.

"The major flaw in the Family Dissolution Principles in general, and chapter 6 in particular, is that it deconstructs family relations and tries to “level” marriage, parenting, and “alternative” relationships by greatly expanding the kinds of relationships that are given the same preferred, privileged legal status and benefits as “family” relations. Some aspects of that theme pervade nearly all of the chapters of the Family Dissolution Principles."1

The remarks of Professor Katherine Bartlett, one of the three principal drafters of the Family Dissolution Principles, both tells us something about those drafting this work, as well as neatly summing up the drive of the proposals:

"the value I place on family diversity and on the freedom of individuals to choose from a variety of family forms. This same value leads me to be generally opposed to efforts to standardize families into a certain type of nuclear family because a majority may believe this is the best kind of family or because it is the most deeply rooted ideologically in our traditions.”2

1- David Orgon Coolidge, Widening the Lens: Chapter 6 of the ALI’s Principles, Hawaii and Vermont, 4 J.L. &Fam. Stud. 79 (2002) Id. at 79

2- Katharine T. Bartlett, “Saving the Family from the Reformers” (Brigitte M. Bodenheimer Memorial Lecture on the Family), University of California, Davis Law Review 31 (1998):

Out here in the real world the vast majority of step-parents are decent folks no different than you and me (that's just common sense; step-parents are randomly selected from the population as a whole; do you really think the whole population is depraved and wicked, filled with child-abusers and such?)

Of course not. But I do assert that it's an irrefutable fact that more children living with their non-biological parents end up being abused in some fashion than those that do live with their biological parents. That doesn't mean I want to abolish adoptions, it means I want to do things that favor biological families staying together.

And the Right has been saying that for quite some time now. Somehow the Swedish welfare state sails serenely on, unaware that its is cheating doom. A sensible person might even conclude that, duh!, it works.

For some time means what? A couple of generations is approximately 50 years.

First of all, it only works to the extent it does because Sweden has a small, culturally homogenous population, and it doesn't spend any money on defense.

Second, Sweden is not sailing "serenely" on - they have the same problem many other European states have, where they have required high rates of immigration to prop up their welfare state. A welfare state creates disincentives to having children; lower birthrates produce a need for workers to pay taxes to fund the welfare state; large-scale immigration causes social stresses, especially when it involves immigration of people with very different cultural values (i.e. Muslims from North Africa and the Middle East). The Muslim immigrant population is reproducing much faster than the indigenous population, and is not generally assimilating to Swedish values.

Re: 1. Step-parents or boyfriends of single mothers aren't drawn randomly from the population

Huh? Are you telling me that there's a certain kind of person (and presumably lots and lots of them) who deliberately goes after divorced or widowed women with kids in order to abuse them? Now we are in tin-foil hat land! And you do realize you are slandering my father who was step-father to my step-mother's three children (both my father and step-mother lost their previous spouses, one to cancer, the other to a traffic accident). You really need to clean your mind up: it's full of all sorts of dark and perverted fears and bigotries about people you don't even know. And before you start with your cooked-up "statistics", of course I am well aware that child abuse is a reality in this world: a friend's grandmother took in foster kids and some of those children came from family horrors that would turn your stomach. But I don't see why we should blame any one group or class of people. That evil happens in even the best families-- and it can involve blood kin no less than step-kin. Like original sin, it's a darkness that can take root and grow anywhere, and harnassing it to score political brownie points is just plain sick.

Re: The “truly radical” make up the bulk of the same-sex “marriage” intellectual force.

With respect, you do not know a thing about gay radicalism. I could link to a website, but it's pretty R (if not X) rated. The people in the gay marriage movement (like Sullivan, Bawer, etc.) are pretty much the moderates. Some of them have even been known to vote Republican!

Re: the movement for same-sex “marriage” deinstitutionalizes normative family formation.

This is pure paranoia, of much the same sort that once argued that Black men should not be freed from slavery lest they rape white women. Sorry I'm in a fierce mood tonight and have no patience for the lies and hallucinations of bigots. Ross' blog usually attracts a more intelligent sort of conservative. What's up? Is FreeRepublic and Lucianne.com down?

Re: But I do assert that it's an irrefutable fact that more children living with their non-biological parents end up being abused in some fashion than those that do live with their biological parents. That doesn't mean I want to abolish adoptions, it means I want to do things that favor biological families staying together.

So now we've gone from traducing step-parents to casting suspicions even on adoptive parents? What drug is everyone on these days? Hello!!! remember adoption-- the solution to abortion?
Now here's a bitter truth: Biology is not a guarantor of virtue and love. You can look up any number of instances of horrific crimes perpetrated by parents (and that includes mothers not just fathers) against the children of their own flesh. And if you want to talk about animals, let's recall the mother cats keep the fathers of their litters away from them because they too are likely to kill the kittens-- even their own. And indeed, it's not unknown that mother animals will kill and eat their own young! (And conversely, sometimes animal mothers will care for the young of other females too-- animals are also be capable of altruism). I'm getting out of breath and out of patience expostulating here, so one more time: there's evil in all things and in all people, you and me too. You can't localize and isolate the darkness of human nature in any group or class of scapegoats. It's everywhere. Deal with it.

As for the 'Sweden is unsustainable' argument, I don't know where to start. What is unsustainable, if anything, is current levels of prosperity and the current Western standard of living, it's not the welfare state per se. and that's a problem that affects the US and Saudi Arabia as much as it does Sweden. Sweden could easily fix its problems tomorrow by settling for a somewhat lower quality of services, lower wages, longer working hours and a later age of retirement. No doubt it will make those changes, when it needs to make them. As for the birth rates, a fast declining population is a problem, but a gradually declining population is not a bad thing. The world's natural resources are already over-stressed as it is, and population is a big contributor to that. Wasn't it just yesterday that we were all trying to encourage people to have fewer children? Sweden has reached that target, and in fact overshot it, and no doubt the overshoot will correct itself in time, and government policies that subsidize motherhood can help it maintain itself at replacement level. But let's not forget that the much bigger problem in the world is the high population growth rates in Africa and the Muslim world. Overpopulation, not underpopulation.

Muslim immigration is of course a big problem, but Sweden can solve its problems by adjusting standard of living, working hours and retirement age, and hopefully will not need to take in that many immigrants anymore.

#1. "This is pure paranoia, of much the same sort that once argued that Black men should not be freed from slavery lest they rape white women. Sorry I'm in a fierce mood tonight and have no patience for the lies and hallucinations of bigots. Ross' blog usually attracts a more intelligent sort of conservative. What's up? Is FreeRepublic and Lucianne.com down?"

Uh –K

So the works of contemporaries of Ross’s,that I link to - (who often publish in the same journals as Ross) Like Ryan T. Anderson, Stanley Kurtz, & David Blakenhorn are “paranoid” “hallucinatory” “bigots”?

#2. Amy P is correct - Child abuse is most likely to occur from a non- biologically related (yet known)adult male. This is standard knowledge. This says nothing about YOUR step-father.

Perhaps your right - tonight is not your best night.

Jonf,
I'm sure your dad was a great step-father and a saint. Nonetheless, mom's boyfriend or husband is a classic source of peril to young girls (think Humbert Humbert making nice to Lolita's mom). And no, it isn't paranoia to think that child abusers are really good at insinuating themselves into positions of trust where they will have unsupervised access to kids. That's what they do, and they're very good at it.

There was a recent story in the Washington Post about family structure and child abuse:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/17/AR2007111700865.html

Here are a couple of paragraphs from that article:

"_Children living in households with unrelated adults are nearly 50 times as likely to die of inflicted injuries as children living with two biological parents, according to a study of Missouri abuse reports published in the journal of the American Academy of Pediatrics in 2005.

"_Children living in stepfamilies or with single parents are at higher risk of physical or sexual assault than children living with two biological or adoptive parents, according to several studies co-authored by David Finkelhor, director of the University of New Hampshire's Crimes Against Children Research Center.

"_Girls whose parents divorce are at significantly higher risk of sexual assault, whether they live with their mother or their father, according to research by Robin Wilson, a family law professor at Washington and Lee University."