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Fortune's Favorite

30 Jan 2008 09:53 am

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For the first six months of this presidential campaign, everything went wrong for John McCain, putting him in a position where to win the nomination, he needed just about everything else to go his way. And with the exception of the Michigan primary, that’s exactly what's happened. McCain can claim credit for some of it: He staked his campaign on the surge, for instance, and if Petraeus and Co. hadn’t succeeded in reducing the violence in Iraq, I can’t imagine that the press would have beat the drum for a McCain comeback as shamelessly as they did, or that moderate Republicans who dislike George W. Bush, the key McCain constituency, would have turned out for him in the numbers that they did. (In the counterfactual where the surge failed and the civil war spiraled out of control, it's easy to imagine the campaign turning into a two-man race between Romney and Rudy, with both emphasizing their Mr. Fix-It skills and promising to clean up the mess – Romney with managerial competence and Rudy with brute force – while Huck’s lack of foreign-policy experience and McCain’s association with the disaster left them both out of the money.)

But much of what's happened to make McCain the presumptive nominee has been luck, pure and simple. He was lucky, to begin with, that George W. Bush lacked an heir apparent – no Jeb, no Condi, no Dick Cheney – who could unite the movement establishment against him. He was lucky that Mitt Romney was a Mormon. He was lucky that Fred Thompson, a candidate who might have succeeded in rallying both social and economic conservatives against his various heresies, was out-campaigned by Mike Huckabee, whose appeal was ultimately too sectarian to make him a threat. He was lucky that Rudy Giuliani ran an inutterably lousy campaign. (More on this anon.) He was lucky that Mike Huckabee won Iowa; lucky that the media basically treated that win as a McCain victory (though obviously his skill in cultivating the press made a big difference, in that case and many others); lucky, as David Freddoso suggests, that Huckabee decided to campaign in New Hampshire and (taking my foolish advice) Michigan instead of going straight to South Carolina; lucky that Giuliani decided not to campaign in New Hampshire after Christmas; and lucky, finally, that Fred Thompson decided to go all in against Huckabee in South Carolina, thus delivering McCain the Palmetto State and with it Florida. And he was lucky, above all, that his strongest challenger was a guy that almost nobody liked – not the media, not his fellow candidates, and not enough of the voters, in the end.

Even McCain’s initial collapse, under the weight of the immigration debate and his badly-managed campaign, looks fortunate in hindsight. The failure of comprehensive immigration reform gave him an excuse to tweak his position on the issue and pose as having been chastened by the voters, without saddling him with an actual policy whose implementation he’d have to defend at every turn. Meanwhile, the loss of his front-runner status let him play the scrappy underdog again, a role that suits his personality far better than playing leader of the pack – and a role, as well, that allowed the media an excuse to warm to him again, after having been disappointed and disillusioned by his willingness to stick by George W. Bush in 2004 and after. I wonder, too, if a McCain who kept his front-runner status throughout the race could have withstood nine months of steady criticism, from Romney or Thompson or whomever, aimed at his extensive record as the Democratic Party’s favorite Republican. But as it was, none of his rivals took him all that seriously until late December – and by then it was too late.

Now if Hillary wins the Democratic nomination, then we'll know that Providence wants McCain in the White House.

Photo by Flickr user Wigwam Jones used under a Creative Commons license.

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Comments (56)

"Meanwhile, the loss of his front-runner status let him play the scrappy underdog again, a role that suits his personality far better than playing leader of the pack..."

I like McCain, and will most likely vote for him, but there is something I truly wonder. His personality is one of the "underdog" and the "mavarick" (sp?) who can't be pigeonholed. He is often the anti-status quo candidate. What happens if he is actually the leader, and no longer can play the role of the underdog? I respect him for all that he's endured in his life, but I don't know exactly how this will translate into an effective executive and administrator.

If he's president, he's no longer the underdog. He can no longer rebel against anyone because he's at the top. So what exactly will he do, not so much policy-wise, but personality-wise?

"Now if Hillary wins the Democratic nomination..."

Yeah, but if Obama wins it, we will have perhaps the starkest choice between change and status quo in the annals of Presidential politics. Anybody want to handicap that one?

When you write more about the failure of Giuliani's campaign, please don't do it anonymously! Also, the sooner the better, as it will soon be yesterday's news.

I can't for the life of me understand why people are so confident that McCain will beat Hilary. As I've said before, McCain is a lousy politician. This idea that he would have swept to the nomination in 2000 if not for the dirty tricks of the Bush campaign is just laughable. He made gaffe after gaffe in 2000. I'm no big fan of Hilary Clinton, but the idea that a Clinton nomination gives the Presidency to McCain is silly.

Especially when people actually turn on the TV and realize that the dude is old.

You didn't mention the most important way in which McCain is lucky: He's lucky that Bush has screwed up his presidency and become unpopular enough that someone like McCain could actually become the GOP nominee. Because I can't imagine that McCain could have ended up with the nomination if Bush were still as popular as he was in 2002.

The exit poll from Florida showed that about one third of the GOP voters had a negative opinion of the Bush administration. This is a closed GOP primary, and one third of the voters don't like the current administration of their own party! Those people voted overwhelmingly for McCain.

If Bush was still popular, I would imagine that many of those voters would have voted for a more conventional Republican (and in fact, there would probably be more conventional Republicans running). And if Bush was still popular, then the *other* Republican voters, those who *do* still like the Bush administration, wouldn't be in a position to be worried this much about electability.

I take most of your points, Ross, but I think this is true of every campaign. There's tons and tons of luck everywhere, always: George W wouldn't be President without a whole hell of a lot of luck down in Florida in 00.

I agree with Freddie: it would probably be a close election, but I think HRC beats McCain.

Er--Does McCain really have this thing wrapped up? How many premature obits/kudos have we seen already this month?

McCain should seize the moment and act like the new leader of the GOP. Who is the leader? Cheney?
Bush? Limbaugh? Gingrich? I don't think so.
Limbaugh has shown, again, to be the Wizard of Oz of the GOP, the great and all-powerful voice commanding an army of...no-shows.
McCain should take the reins, and go right at Limbaugh, Ailes, Hannity and the rest of the far-right set. They hate him anyway, he needs to solidify the moderates and independents, and deep-down, most Republicans hate Talk Radio too.
Or will McCain continue to pander to his base?
Time to lead, John.

fougasseu writes: "McCain should take the reins, and go right at Limbaugh, Ailes, Hannity and the rest of the far-right set. They hate him anyway, he needs to solidify the moderates and independents, and deep-down, most Republicans hate Talk Radio too."

Faux News sheeple and O'Reilly fans are the Republican base and McCain can't win without them. He won't do squat to piss them off, and they'll play along if he's the nominee. So will Limbaugh. None of these parasitic, evil fuckers are going to sit the election out.

MoeLarryAndJesus: McCain just basically won the nomination without support from those conservative talkers and news folks, so winning the election will be easier. Go vent your wrath against Republicans elsewhere, please.

fougasseu: Your idea that McCain should go after the talk-radio guys is suicidal, akin to what McCain did in 2000 when speaking out against Falwell (with whom he made up before Falwell's death) and Robertson. McCain learned his lesson and won't fall into that trap.

But the talk-show hosts needed to learn a lesson, and they have: Years of castigating McCain didn't make him toxic to the GOP. Not to conservatives, not to moderates. Just because he ain't the darling of any one group doesn't make him a liberal.

Conservatives should embrace McCain. The GOP is changing, and McCain, though old, is best prepared to carry the changes forward. Crying like a stuck pig won't make McCain look like a villain any more than 8 years of attacks on him have, and you can see what those got the anti-McCain brigade.

This warfare within the GOP must, sadly, be pretty amusing to people who can't stand the party. My hope is that people will get behind McCain. He's going to be the nominee, and a matchup against either Obama or Hillary will be a tough race. Those who would have expected McCain supporters to fall in line behind their candidate of choice should be willing to support McCain if he becomes the nominee. Frothing at the mouth is ugly, and as a conservative who admires most talk-radio hosts, I've had enough of ugliness.

Dickman says: "MoeLarryAndJesus: McCain just basically won the nomination without support from those conservative talkers and news folks, so winning the election will be easier. Go vent your wrath against Republicans elsewhere, please."

I'll "vent my wrath" where I please, pipsqueak. And if you're stupid enough to think that McCain pulling victories with vote totals in the 35% range in Repiglican primaries means he won't need the support of the Limbaugh-suckers to win in the fall, then you probably think Bush has been a good president.

"This warfare within the GOP must, sadly, be pretty amusing to people who can't stand the party."

It sure is, pal. I'm going to love watching you folks get the chain-whipping you so richly deserve after watching the corrupt, warmongering, torture-loving, Constitution-defiling Bushpigs in action while you all cheered or sat on your hooves.

Good times. Good times.

Discman has this right. Republican outliers, left and right, need to stop carping and get behind McCain in a phalanx. He is in the process of winning a hard-fought primary in which he has been a stalwart on tough issues, especially Iraq and immigration. He, also, in the long run is capable of attracting independents and Blue Dog Democrats.

McCain would be a far better president than either Obama who is talking mostly froth about change, and Clinton who is triangulating all over the place.

The mainstream media supports McCain because they know America will never vote for a damaged POW as president.

An interesting question: Why was it always known that Cheney would not run in 2008? I understand why he isn't running now, when he is widely hated, but the idea that he was not an heir apparent seems to have been universal conventional wisdom since the day Bush picked him as V.P. If the reason was his age, why isn't that held against McCain?

For some of us (my political involvement dates back to the Goldwater campaign; in the original words of Henry Clay, "He'd rather be right than President."), maintaining the Republican party as a credible vehicle for advocacy of conservative/libertarian/free market ideas is more important than retaining political power. I fully understand the downside of a Clinton or Obama victory. In particular, the idea of the violence that will be done to the Constitution by their SCOTUS appointments makes me weep.

But a McCain presidency emasculates (excuse the sexist language) the GOP with respect to any future conservative advocacy. Over a wide range of domestic issues from immigration to campaign finance reform to taxation, he is not one of us. Furthermore, he would likely compound the foreign policy failures of the last eight years, viz., a war against Iran. For so many reasons, I would never be able to vote for him, irrespective of his opponent. And it is a fiction that any Republican can win by rejecting the party's base. If even 10% of the base stays home, a victory by the Democrats is assured.

At the least, a 52%-48% Hillary or Obama victory over McCain ensures that the more egregious of the Democrats' policy proposals will be grid-locked. If McCain is the nominee, conservatives should swallow hard, sit this one out, and work like hell to bring about a better choice four years hence.

then we'll know that Providence wants McCain in the White House.

Or it has abandoned us to ourselves as we deserve.

I am baffled by the Republican primary voter's choice of McCain. Let me get this straight:

1) He antagonizes the base as the Democrat's favorite republican. The media is showering him with love NOW, but does anybody think that's going to continue once he's up against Democrats?

2)He's known for having a temper and a lack of discipline as a candidate; if he's up against Hillary, you don't think the Clintons will be able to goad him into making a mistake?

3) He'll be 72 in November. 72! Name a leader of a major corporation that old! That will come across in the debates and every appearance. This is not Ronald Regan territory, if he served two terms he'd be 80.

jhb:

1) Yes, the media love-fest will continue if he's running against Hillary, because no one in the media likes her. No, it will not continue if he's running against Obama, but if any of the Republicans runs against Obama, we're screwed anyway.

2) The temper thing was an exaggeration in 2000, and it's an even bigger exaggeration now. If Rush, or Romney (whom I think he dislikes more, on a purely personal level, than Hillary) can't goad him into making mistakes, the Clintons can't.

3) Fair point. Even being 72, though, he still polls way ahead of Romney and all the other Republicans in general election matchups against both the Dems. You work with what you've got; he's the best option currently on offer for winning this thing.

Some conservatives are more than a bit overheated about McCain’s inevitability.

#1. As a veteran of the Senate McCain has done an admirable job of deal cutting and positioning himself as a good legislator rather than a good republican.

#2. As a President he will be more than aware that his position is leader not legislator. He has to go into his term as the conservative standard barer. Otherwise he knows he will simply get caught in the cross fire. The strong words against him by conservative pundits only underscores this. Look for him to re-establish his conservative credentials through the primary and general.

#3. He was never that much of an apostate. His immigration plan was Bush’s. Bush signed campaign-finance when he said he wouldn’t. McCain apposed the prescription drug bill of Bush’s that was the largest expansion of government since LBJ. He’s not to far apart on taxes – he has a reputation for fiscal restraint that will give small government conservatism back its credibility.

We got the best & strongest conservative from the feild we were offered.

Derannimer,

1) I hope you're right. I've never seen the media treat a Republican candidate for President well in a general election. The media really didn't like the Clintons that much in the late 90's, they just hated Republicans more. Even if that weren't true, the media has to come up with new storylines and the fawning treatment of McCain can't continue indefinitely.

2) Regarding your point about Romney, yes, he unquestionably hates Romney more. But Romney did not go for the jugular the way the Clinton's do even against member's of their own party(see: Obama, Barrack). The Republican primary has been a love-fest compared to Barrack-Hillary. McCain hasn't really been tested yet, except against Bush in 2000 where he did not respond well.

3) I don't place much stock in national polls at this point, but of course I hope they are right. We do have to make do with what we have...I'm just having trouble adjusting to how depressing 'what we have' looks.

James Kabala wonders: "Why was it always known that Cheney would not run in 2008? I understand why he isn't running now, when he is widely hated, but the idea that he was not an heir apparent seems to have been universal conventional wisdom since the day Bush picked him as V.P. If the reason was his age, why isn't that held against McCain?"

It wasn't Cheney's age, it's the fact that he's working with a bum ticker and is being kept alive by constant transfusions of blood from Iraqi infants. And if he ran the stories about his alcohol abuse and his infamous collection of lesbian snuff films would surface.

But I wish he would run. It would have been great to see him get trounced 70-30% in the general election, followed by him choking on his own bile during the concession speech.

jhb writes: "I've never seen the media treat a Republican candidate for President well in a general election."

This is funny, since Dumbya was handled with kid gloves in 2000. Gore was treated far more harshly than Bush was in that election.

Saint Reagan wasn't hammered in 1984, either, and Dumbya's daddy was treated better than sad old Mike Dukakis was in 1988.

Look for him to re-establish his conservative credentials through the primary and general.

Fitz, McCain is already hard into establishing these credentials. He starts with being solid on the Iraq War, recently affirmed that he would nominate justices in the Roberts mold, and in an interview with the hard-headed WSJ Editorial Board convinced them about his position on the issues of taxes and trade. One can view this as cynical politics, though McCain, better than most politicos, goes light on triangulation.

Your point that McCain knows the political difference between being a senator and president is sharp.

"In particular, the idea of the violence that will be done to the Constitution by their SCOTUS appointments makes me weep."

It's amazing that now the Republicans are starting to lose power that they are now the party of the Constitution and responsible fiscal responsibility. No mention that the last 8 years were all about limiting the scope of the constitution, abuse of executive power and heavy deficit spending.

MoeLarry,

You must be kidding if you think Bush was handled with kid gloves in 2000. Do you remember the story that 'broke' two days before the election about a 1976(!) DUI arrest? Talk about a coincidence; they just discovered it, right before the election.
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/02/bush.dui/
What about all of the major networks callin FL for Gore hours before the polls closed?

MoeLarry,

You must be kidding if you think Bush was handled with kid gloves in 2000. Do you remember the story that 'broke' two days before the election about a 1976(!) DUI arrest? Talk about a coincidence; they just discovered it, right before the election.
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/02/bush.dui/
What about all of the major networks calling FL for Gore hours before the polls closed?

jhb writes: "You must be kidding if you think Bush was handled with kid gloves in 2000. Do you remember the story that 'broke' two days before the election about a 1976(!) DUI arrest? Talk about a coincidence; they just discovered it, right before the election.
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/11/02/bush.dui/
What about all of the major networks callin FL for Gore hours before the polls closed?"

The DUI arrest would have come out sooner if Dumbya hadn't blatantly lied about his arrest history, chuckles. Then again, maybe it was so many drunks ago that the stupid bastard had forgotten it. Once the story came out it got the treatment it deserved. No more, no less.

As for calling Florida - that's what the exit polls showed, that's what they reported. I won't rehash the theft of that election, but since the issue here is pre-election coverage, what happened that night is completely irrelevant.

Dumbya's draft-dodging, his AWOL status as a "Guardsman," his cocaine use, his miserable business history, his Saudi ties, his crappy performance as governor - all were good indicators of the shitty presidency to follow, and all were under-reported by a press that wanted new blood in Washington. Gore's "sighing" in the first debate got more attention than any of Dumbya's numerous faults.

But congratulations to you - your little prick got elected and proceeded to trash the country. You must be proud.

"Do you remember the story that 'broke' two days before the election about a 1976(!) DUI arrest?"

I also remember the Very Serious People all talking about how it doesn't reflect on his current character and it wasn't important. Then they talked about how Dubya was a regular guy, we'd all like to have a beer with. Then they made fun of Al Gore's "I invented the Internet" story.

He was lucky, to begin with, that George W. Bush lacked an heir apparent

Do you seriously believe that being the heir apparent of a president as unpopular as Bush would have been an advantage?

James Kabala: An interesting question: Why was it always known that Cheney would not run in 2008?

Cheney made it crystal clear in 2000 that he had no interest in running for president. Bush was wise to pick a VP without presidential ambition.

BTW, Cheney, who was incapable of pandering to the left, will someday be recognized as one of the better VPs. His biggest mistake, however, was sticking with Rumsfeld's flawed view on fighting the Iraq insurgency after we initially defeated Saddam.


Peter Leavitt writes: "Cheney made it crystal clear in 2000 that he had no interest in running for president. Bush was wise to pick a VP without presidential ambition."

Dumbya didn't pick him. He appointed Cheney to pick a VP, and Cheney picked himself.

"Cheney, who was incapable of pandering to the left, will someday be recognized as one of the better VPs. His biggest mistake, however, was sticking with Rumsfeld's flawed view on fighting the Iraq insurgency after we initially defeated Saddam."

Oh, was that his decision? Too bad we didn't have a president with the brains or the balls to tell the evil old bastards to go Cheney themselves.

Jordan T. posted: "It's amazing that now the Republicans are starting to lose power that they are now the party of the Constitution and responsible fiscal responsibility. No mention that the last 8 years were all about limiting the scope of the constitution, abuse of executive power and heavy deficit spending."

Read my posting again. What I stated was that conservatives might have more of a chance to thwart misguided policy proposals with Hillary as president than with McCain as president, if for no other reason than that the GOP would be more unified in opposition to her than to him. I am not one to declare the importance of victory at all costs. Instead, conservatives need to maintain the GOP as a vehicle to promote conservative/libertarian/free market ideas in the future, even if this means a time out of power.

MoeLarryAndJesus:

I want to know what the hell it is that you're smoking that makes you think Hillary could even possibly beat John McCain. Or have you already forgotten the level of Clinton-hatred that not only still exists in the Republican party, but the rest of the country as well? It doesn't matter how many conservatives can't stand McCain - they hate Hillary much, MUCH more than they ever did John. Hell, every Republican I talk to is praying that Hillary does get the nomination, because it's a fight they know they can win, and they're right to think it too. You'd better pray that Obama wins the Democratic nomination, because that's the only way the Dems will landslide the Republicans come November. A Hillary nomination means the first 4 years of a McCain presidency. It is just that simple.

"His biggest mistake, however, was sticking with Rumsfeld's flawed view on fighting the Iraq insurgency after we initially defeated Saddam."

It was clearly in how they chose to fight, not if it should've been fought.
In believing they could militarize Iraqi sheep to fight off terrorists instead of risking more American lives in an all out immediate assault was their failure.

However, without Clinton's neutering of our military and intelligence services the attack of 9/11 would have been stopped and we'ld still be playing games with a genocidal dictator.

This situation is not Bush's creation and his only mistakes are not pressing the war with our own people as quickly as possible to end it, sacrificing our sovereignty for some disloyal and wrongheaded ideals and entitlements which are not the federal governments to provide.

He has enough of his own faults to pay for without crediting him with someone elses.

jhb:

(Sorry, long and rambling.)

1. I guess I'm more optimistic than you are about the media issue. One thing to factor in here is that, if Hillary becomes the nominee, it'll only be because she crushed Obama to get there, and Obama is every political journalist's dreamboat. There's a lot of media people who are going to be *really* ticked if that happens. The story-line on the Dem side after Super Tuesday, at least for a while, is going to be: Billary crushed our great hope through racist attacks, and we're all really bummed. Look at the way Clinton's Jesse Jackson comment, etc, has been played. (Quite rightly, btw, it was scummy.) Of course, there's a lot of time in a national campaign, and the story-lines will flip around, but once a pol's been associated with a personality characteristic, that's hard to shake, and as of South Carolina Hillary's been associated with "ruthless."

In general, I should note that my take on the "liberal media" is this: the MSM is liberal in the sense that most of its members are liberal, which is reflected, more or less unconsciously, in coverage -- it's just the way they think about the world -- not so much liberal in the sense of consciously pursuing a liberal agenda. (Honestly, I think their only real agenda is to make money -- it's a business like any other.) YMMV, of course, and depending on how you read this issue, it's going to affect your predictions about how they'll treat McCain.

2. As for the temper thing, I'm kind of up in the air. After I posted I started thinking of things the Clintons could say about McCain that Romney hasn't, and I agree it could get very ugly, and I'm not totally sure how he'd handle it. I can imagine a scenario -- say they go after his first marriage and try to get his ex to dis him -- wherein he goes ballistic. But at the same time, going hard after McCain could be very dangerous for the Clintons:

A: It reactivates the "ruthless" vibe. (See above.) Especially since it's McCain they'd be going after -- trashing a war hero after you trashed the first serious black candidate for the presidency does not make you look classy.

B: It rallies the base around McCain, as much as anything ever could. Seriously, I can think of few things that would gain McCain more conservative sympathy than being slimed unfairly by the Clintons and punching back.

C: It invites retaliation, and there's simply a lot more mud to throw at Billary than there is to throw at McCain. Let's remind people why returning to the 90's isn't such a hot idea after all.

3. I agree that national polls so far out are basically meaningless; I would just add, though, that they are one more data point, and to the extent they have any meaning at all, they look a lot better for McCain than for any of the alternatives.

If McCain wins, he should send Jim Webb a thank-you note. George Allen was the heir apparent until Webb upended him in '06.

Moe: Dumbya didn't pick him. He appointed Cheney to pick a VP, and Cheney picked himself. The truth is that Cheney put together a list of possible VP candidates, which Bush considered and then had the bright idea to pick Cheney himself.

As usual, Moe, your fevered hatred of Pres. Bush and Vice Pres. Cheney leads you to risible error. You need to find some real work.

"If McCain wins, he should send Jim Webb a thank-you note. George Allen was the heir apparent until Webb upended him in '06."

Allen ought to get a note, too. Webb would never have beaten him, and the general public would have no idea what a macaca is, without George Allen's help.

The GOP is lucky to have McCain as a candidate. But even my dad (age 84) thinks the guy is too old to be POTUS.

McCain vs. Clinton--is that an election slate or a horror movie title?

Two socialist warriors in love with the health of the state (war and big govt) and I'm supposed to rally behind a mean, old fart that ignores the Constitution? One that desires open borders, perpetual war, and increased spending on empire building?

Sarcasm on. And you expect voters like me to say, "Gee, I can get behind McCain. No border enforcement, continued destruction of my retirement plan, growth in federal funding (think bridges to nowhere and DoD toilet seats), and increased spying on Americans (thanks, Bushie). Sounds just like a patriot and the type of government our Founding Fathers would approve of." Sarcasm off.

McCain vs. Clinton means the United States as Thomas Jefferson envisioned is DOA, for the Executive has become a post much like Castro's--when I need something from Congress, I'll let 'em know. Neither McCain or Clinton will reduce Presidential powers, only continue with the creation of a dictatorial position.

firebrand writes: "I want to know what the hell it is that you're smoking that makes you think Hillary could even possibly beat John McCain. Or have you already forgotten the level of Clinton-hatred that not only still exists in the Republican party, but the rest of the country as well?"

No, I haven't forgotten it. I also know that the Clintons are still far more popular than Dumbya and the Repiglicans and their fucking Iraq War are, chuckles, and McCain is on record as saying that he won't mind staying in Iraq for a century. Add in that he'll be clueless on economics and will just be Dumbya II across the board, and you're looking at a very beatable candidate. That's if he even survives the campaign - take a look at him trying to get off a plane or a stage. He has one foot in the grave.

"Instead, conservatives need to maintain the GOP as a vehicle to promote conservative/libertarian/free market ideas in the future, even if this means a time out of power."

The GOP hasn't been the vehicle for these ideas in quite some time. It would be nice for them to return to it, and the only way they will is to be thrown out of power. Otherwise they'll continue to pay lip service to these ideals, like they have done with social conservatives.

If you think McCain has it wrapped up, you are too quick in judgement. He still has a ways to go and I think Mitt Romney may be the winner when its all done.

To all of the skeptics, read above. If people like myself and Citizen Liberty constitute even 10% of the conservative base, and we take a walk this coming November, there is no way on Earth that McCain is elected. At the least, a Hillary presidency has the virtue of uniting the opposition. I would welcome the rejectionism and gridlock that comes with Hillary as preferable to having the Congressional Republicans co-opted by John McCain in the name of party unity. If conservatives have no dog in this fight, so be it. We should thwart Hillary every step of the way for the next four years, then live to fight another day.

"However, without Clinton's neutering of our military and intelligence services the attack of 9/11 would have been stopped and we'ld still be playing games with a genocidal dictator."

I doubt 9/11 would have been stopped. What could we have done? Arrested a bunch of people who were here legally? On what crimes would we have charged them with? The conditions for 9/11 were perfect and will likely never happen again. It will simply be impossible to take over a plane like that again. How would any terrorist take a plane over today?

Secondly, before the Iraq invasion our generals advised that we needed more troops. Rumsfield ignored the advice and ordered the invasion anyways. There are certainly options to getting a force up to the correct numbers, but the Bush administration knew that a draft would make the war politically unfeasible. The problem from the beginning is that we were fighting a war with the resources that were politically feasible (remember the Bush no need for sacrifice speeches), but this was not enough for the military objective.

""However, without Clinton's neutering of our military and intelligence services the attack of 9/11 would have been stopped and we'ld still be playing games with a genocidal dictator.""

Hah! I missed that bit of idiocy the first time through. How quickly conservatives forget that it was Dumbya's daddy who started downsizing the military, with his Secretary of Defense Dick Cheney leading the way, which led every military peson I knew at the time to refer to him as Dickless Cheney.

And perhaps if John Ashcrap had been more concerned with national security and less with statue tits 9/11 could have been prevented - but Dumbya had to appoint a fundie fanatic who thought stone tits were a bigger menace than terrorists to the AG office.

Re: But a McCain presidency emasculates (excuse the sexist language) the GOP with respect to any future conservative advocacy. Over a wide range of domestic issues from immigration to campaign finance reform to taxation, he is not one of us.

So you have a caretaker presidency for four years, long enough (you hope) to purge the toxin of Bushism from the GOP without giving the reins to the Democrats. Then after four years you retool conservatism and have a resurgence.
If you're smart that's what you'll do. Sadly, too many conservatives refuse to forswear Bushism.

Re: I want to know what the hell it is that you're smoking that makes you think Hillary could even possibly beat John McCain.

Because the country is sick of the GOP. Simple enough. As for Hillary-0hatred, sure it exists-- just as Bush hatred does on the Left (and far more virulently). But Bush hatred did not unseat Bush in 2004 and Hillary-hatred will not doom her this year. The people who hold such views are True Believers who would not vote for the other side if the Lord God himself ordered it in person. Next question.

Re: McCain vs. Clinton means the United States as Thomas Jefferson envisioned is DOA,

Jefferson's USA died a long time ago, on the night old Edmund Ruffin lit the fuse on the first gun facing Fort Sumter. And that USA needed to die. Get over it.

Those of us who want to see McCain in the White House may need to mount some kind of ambush on our very own Rush Limbaugh. I grew up listening to him, it's always been like a sort of homecoming whenever I hear his voice, but he has taken the anti-McCain stuff to scary extremes-- we're going to end up with another Ruth Bader Ginsburg if he doesn't start observing Ronaldus Maximus' 11th Commandment. It's true that McCain didn't need "very" conservative voters to win these primaries, but he will definitely need the highest possible turnout in November. Both Obama and Hillary are getting out the vote; Rush is telling his listeners to stay home.

MD writes: "Those of us who want to see McCain in the White House may need to mount some kind of ambush on our very own Rush Limbaugh. I grew up listening to him, it's always been like a sort of homecoming whenever I hear his voice"

Seriously? You must have grown up in a seriously abusive shithole supervised by deranged retards, then. I will admit that a thrice-divorced gluttonous junkie college drop-out with a criminal record who dodged the draft because of an ass pimple is the perfect spokesman for the current Repiglican Party, though.

Why didn't he run? You all would have been having waking wet dreams in the voting booths.

McCain did poor enough in this recent debate I'm more restrained on him now. (I was always a bit critical though) I still prefer him to Romney, but I think Romney won that debate.

Anyway I believe the idea of McCain beating Hillary is that

1: The base will turn out to vote against Hillary, they may not be so energized if it's Obama.

2: Hillary's negatives with independent voters are much higher than McCain's. Obama, on the other hand, does fairly well with independents.

It's possible his positives with independents would hurt him with core-voters, but overall these are positives that don't have too strong of negatives to them.

McCain's potential advantages against Obama come with a greater possibility of being disadvantages.

1: Old people like McCain. The entertainment world likes a young guy, but it's old people who really vote. Getting old people to like you is important and McCain seems to have that, possibly in part because he is an old guy. We've had two baby-boomers in a row someone, even younger than that might not be appealing for the old.

2: He seems to do better with Hispanics than most Republicans and could be competitive with Obama on this demographic.

The problem is these two are potential disadvantages. His age could be a turn off for enough 30-50 year old voters to make its benefit a wash. The qualities that make him appealing to Hispanic voters could be a turn off to white voters in swing states. Not that those white voters would necessarily vote Obama, but they might stay home.

He was lucky a certain politician who would otherwise have run away with this nomination very quickly uttered the word "maccacca".

Sorry, I see now that that point has already been made. No doubt, it was a combination of a strong candidate in Webb running against Allen, and Allen's self-immolation.

And how the heck do you spell "maccaca" anyway?

lewp writes: "Sorry, I see now that that point has already been made. No doubt, it was a combination of a strong candidate in Webb running against Allen, and Allen's self-immolation.

And how the heck do you spell "maccaca" anyway?"

Macaca. And it's the entire country that's lucky that utterance happened - it removed at least one completely worthless Repiglican prick from the race. Rudy's campaign idiocy has removed another one.

I won't vote for McCain, but I won't be ashamed of my country if he gets elected - so he'd be an improvement over Dumbya right there.

A Democrat Error

Dear John McCain brothers in arms,

You should tell John about this or somebody up high enough to try to figure out how to take advantage of what seems to me to be some kind of a dirty trick by Obama on Hillary. It is on an “evolution” anti-conservative website called www.matrix-evolutions.com. I’ll just give you the beginning of it here. The rest of the stuff on these animals’ website is just as bad if not worse, but I’ll just give the first few paragraphs:

We are scientists who derive our politics from an evolutionary perspective, not from conservative ideology. Our analysis concludes that our so-called war on terror is slowly but surely taking us to World War III. Note Putin’s 2/8/08 call for a renewed arms race to counter America’s efforts to conquer the world. For that reason we support Barack Obama as the only real anti-war candidate, the only one who can keep such a nuclear tipped train wreck from happening.

As to Hillary Clinton, recall during their populist administration that President Bill and missus, while promising health care they never delivered, did deliver more police and prisons, and took our jail population to the highest per-capita level in the world. This statistic, ahem, is historically associated with hardened police states like Stalinist Russia and apartheid South Africa. We all know that spitting on the street nowadays will get you six months in jail. But of course we’re not a police state, because if we were, you’d have heard about it on the evening news.

The Clintons as president also made their upper class handlers happy by ending LBJs war on poverty, which brought about the vast population of homeless beggars we see on the streets of America today. Pearls for the wealthy, evictions for the rest of us. Don’t laugh. It could happen to you. Wait until the recession, caused primarily by our trillion dollar War in Iraq, gets into high gear. Goodbye nest egg when the market totally collapses. Goodbye home thanks to the Shylock mortgage brokers in bed with the conservatives. Hello suffering on the street with your kids in a foster home.

Actually Hillary does have a few things she can be very proud of. She is a most talented actress, a profoundly adept social climber and a top paid shill of the upper class. She is our American Evita and almost everybody loves her style. But whatever her talents and personal accomplishments, she is not going to go against the wishes of the ruling clique who created her and Bill and stop their war.

Some think that Hillary would never lie to us. But Bill also insisted he would never lie to us and is so amazingly good an actor, almost as good as his wife, that we yet believe him even after the tape recording caught him with the cigar between Monica’s legs. What character is there in a first family when the head of the most powerful nation on earth is sticking a penile object, not even his own, up some college kid’s vagina? Does anybody think Hillary felt personally bad about the Monica thing other than not having her usual go with one of Bill’s girls? Watch the conservatives bring forth one of Hillary’s lovers soon to clarify her tastes in this area. Indeed, one would not be surprised if the less than confident, slightly retarded, persona Chelsea Clinton was condemned to live her life with derives from her pervert parents abusing her when she was four years old. Certainly there is as much truth in this conjecture as in the equally outrageous conjecture that the Clintons are not good people even though they go to church every Sunday. If evil is badness that comes from an unexpected source, the Clintons are evil enough to have shit stuffed in their mouths and be set on fire. That’s an opinion of their character, not a threat on their lives, for all you hate speech monitors out there.

Unfortunately, though, short of a revolution, we may be stuck with another Clinton figurehead presidency, for our evolutionary analysis shows clearly that while biological evolution is not of intelligent design, our presidential elections are. They are intelligently designed by the conservative ruling clique that has hold of our media and our courts, including our Supreme Court, which designed the last election outcome. Which all of you meekly accepted because the majority of Americans are basically passive cowards who lack the courage it takes to stand up to tyranny. The upper classes would never allow Obama to become president and stop the war. They would assassinate him first, literally have him shot like Martin Luther King, if the media they control can’t derail his candidacy in a more subtle way. We reach these outrageous conclusions, not from bipolar disease, but from a firm scientific analysis whose details follow after we have introduced ourselves.

Hope this information is some help.
On to victory in November,
Martha Turner

This whole idea is totally wrong.

The Republicans, to be successful, need to nominate a candidate who is kind of edgy. Country club and goody-goody guy Republicans lose in November.

Think Arnold Schwarzenegger. Even Ronald Reagan was little edgy, maybe more than a little.

John McCain is a very edgy guy. The party's voters picked him exactly because of that.

The bottom line: There was a reason why McCain won. It was not just luck.

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