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Ron Paul's Friends

09 Jan 2008 10:26 am

You know, I half-believe Ron Paul when he says that he is not a bigot or a racist or an anti-Semite. I half-believe him in when he says the inflammatory material that James Kirchick has uncovered in years and years of newsletters and pamphlets with his name on them was written by others without his supervision or direct permission. But what I'm nearly sure of is that he doesn't really care that much if some of the people around him are racists - not because he shares their opinions, but because he thinks those opinions aren't all that important in the grand scheme of things.

This doesn't make Ron Paul a terrible person; it just makes him human. He believes in a constellation of ideas - some of them nutty, but some of them not - that have been shunted to the fringe of American political life. And people who find themselves in that position tend to be far, far more forgiving of their allies' various tics and idiosyncracies and yes, bigotries than would otherwise be the case. It's unfortunate, but it's also human nature: If someone agrees with you and supports you when the whole world seems to be against you, of course you'll be more likely to look past their tendency to suggest that Mossad was behind the 1993 WTC bombing, or their fondness for pre-apartheid South Africa. When you're way out there on the fringe, without any obvious way to reach the mainstream, it's very easy to tell yourself that your dubious friends aren't really all that bad - and that besides, if you ever start finding your way back to the mainstream, it won't be all that hard to jettison them along the way. It's easy, as well, to start making excuses for them: If the mainstream accuses you of anti-Semitism, unfairly, because you're a principled non-interventionist who wants the U.S. to pull out of the Middle East, it's easy to find yourself making excuses for other people who get tarred (more justly) with the label. And then time goes by, the mainstream never gets any closer, you're spending all your time in a cramped and crankish and resentful world, and you hear yourself thinking hey, if these neo-Confederate guys are right about states' rights and the Constitution, then maybe they're right about race too ...

It's the most natural thing in the world. Just ask Sam Francis.

Thus it's to Ron Paul's credit, in a certain way, that he never went as far down this road as Francis and Joe Sobran and others like them did. But it's a shame that some of Paul's ideas have only Paul - with all his baggage, all his own weird and baseless notions, and all his unfortunate friends - as their champion. Even if you believe, as I do, that the American empire and the administrative state aren't going anywhere and ought to be taken as the givens of our politics, there's still a constructive role for non-interventionists and constitutionalists to play in our politics (and especially in conservative politics!), whether we're debating the invasion of Iraq or the latest appropriations bill. But because those ideas are currently way out on the fringe - and associated with the sort of people who wrote for the Ron Paul Political Report back in the day - there are enormous incentives for most politicians and writers to give them a wide berth, precisely because anyone who does embrace them will find himself, like Paul, sharing a very small boat with a lot of very dubious friends.

With apologies to Jim Antle's fine piece, this is the real "paleocon dilemma": That once a set of ideas reaches the fringes of political discussion, it tends to stay there.

Comments (84)

Yeah, but you're engaging precisely in the same mechanism that pushes Paul to the fringe by defending him, here. When you hold him to a lower standard because he is a member of a fringe group, you are further marginalizing that group and contributing to the sense in which they are a permanent "other"; you're highlighting the sense in which they are removed from contemporary politics. If the ideas of Paul's that you (and I) admire are to be given traction in the national debate, he and they have to be held to the same standard, or a higher standard, than others. The marginalization that inoculates him to charges of racism or anti-Semitism, etc., also disenfranchises the people and ideas that he represents.

The fact is that Ron Paul is neither a racist and he is held to a higher standard than anyone else. You have racists like Louis Farrakan supporting Obama and no one says anything about. Ron Paul is the least racist person out there because his philosophy is individualism, not collectivism which is the foundation of racism. The other candidates have collectivist premises so they would be more inclined to be racist (I am not saying they are) than Ron Paul who understands the root of racism.

January 8, 2008 5:28 am EST

ARLINGTON, VIRGINIA – In response to an article published by The New Republic, Ron Paul issued the following statement:

“The quotations in The New Republic article are not mine and do not represent what I believe or have ever believed. I have never uttered such words and denounce such small-minded thoughts.

“In fact, I have always agreed with Martin Luther King, Jr. that we should only be concerned with the content of a person's character, not the color of their skin. As I stated on the floor of the U.S. House on April 20, 1999: ‘I rise in great respect for the courage and high ideals of Rosa Parks who stood steadfastly for the rights of individuals against unjust laws and oppressive governmental policies.’

“This story is old news and has been rehashed for over a decade. It's once again being resurrected for obvious political reasons on the day of the New Hampshire primary.

“When I was out of Congress and practicing medicine full-time, a newsletter was published under my name that I did not edit. Several writers contributed to the product. For over a decade, I have publicly taken moral responsibility for not paying closer attention to what went out under my name.”

Why not write about how the non-racist Ron Paul has drawn racists and anti-Semites into his way of thinking rather than the other way around? Why not mention how white supremacists and neo-Nazis have gone to meetups and found that they had something in common with blacks and Jews and maybe changed their minds a tad about their bigoted ways?

Bigots are bigots for a reason, however unjustified, but instead of trying to reason with them and educate them like Ron Paul does with his message of individual rights and freedom and justice for all, we always try to push them farther away. Why not engage them? Why not talk to them to tell them why they are wrong, and without personal attacks that further alienate them, but with civil discussion. When fringe elements get pushed away they join with other folks like them and they breed and they perpetuate their ilk. Bring them in, discuss, educate, reason, and then maybe they will get what we have all come to understand.

Think about how a lot of our grandparents were racist (or at least told off color jokes that aren't really funny or still use the word "colored"). What changed society? Integration, because enough people tried to get along, made subsequent generations meet others that are different and find out we're not really that different.

Why does Ron Paul have the most diverse following? It isn't just Iraq and the Federal Reserve.

I have 2 questions for TNR.

1.Do the idiots at TNR (“Baghdad Diaries”) have any proof that Dr. Paul only delivered white babies?

2.Do the morons at TNR have any proof that Dr. Paul only checked for cervical cancer, on white women?

The same dynamic exists on the Left, of course. Those of us who opposed the Iraq War and wanted to raise concerns about the downside of corporate globalization inevitably found ourselves at a rally sponsored by ANSWER, listening to some speaker compare Zionism to Nazism. Once ideas are pushed to the fringe, they tend to be cannibalized by the fringe.

To me, this really just highlights the harms created by the clubby dynamic and groupthink in our political press. If you want to understand where our politics went off the rails, I'd point to the fact that Bill Kristol continues to be a respected member of the establishment whose views are taken seriously, whereas the similarly extreme ideological spaces occupied by Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich are considered fringe elements.


The 1993 WTC bombing was not a Mossad operation, it was an FBI operation. The FBI's 'informant' was Emad Salem. This agent provacateur recruited all of the co-conspirators, was paid $1M. He recorded his conversations with his FBI handlers, recordings that were entered into the trial record. These showed that the FBI had insisted on making a real bomb, not a dud, and that the FBI had known every small detail of their bomb plot.

The bomb went off. 6 people killed, 1000 injured, $250M in damages.

This was all published on the front page of the NYTimes, 28 October, 1993. The article was written by Ralph Blumenthal, and was republished in every major paper in the US.

The story is almost certainly similar for the OKC bombing, although not as well documented. The agent provocateur there was Andreas Strassmeier. Both the FBI and ATF had several informants in the White Aryan Nation, the group that McVeigh was associated with, and accompanied McVeigh on scouting trips to federal buildings. Andy Strassmeier escaped back to Germany, was never interviewed in connection with the OKC bombing.

All of this is easily confirmed by a Google search.

These events are NEVER referred to in the 'big media', but are well-known to anyone who uses the internet as their primary source of information.

With this as a background, do you trust any of the standard media? On anything?

What country do you think you are living in?

Lew Glendenning
The Constitution, the whole Constitution, nothing but the Constitution

You give too much ground to the left. Some of us on the right, while not embracing racism, refuse to see it as the sin of sins. We happen to think that anti-racism is doing more damage than racism. There are lots of leftists whose opinions are objectively just as hateful, nasty, and destructive as those of these racists, (and yet who have tenure at major universities such as Harvard) or have full access to the mainstream media.

I'd like to quote something from Russell Wardlow's blog (now sadly deactivated):

I've come to the conclusion that the negative effects of our society's obsession about being anti-racist some time ago crossed the line and started to vastly outweigh the negative effects of racism itself. The first point is that the word has lost any claim to a reasonable definition. I still think that there is something to which one could attach a useful definition of "racism" which would retain its pejorative aspect; something along the lines of substantial invidious animosity against a racial group. But to whatever extent it exists, I don't think it's worth getting worked up about, at least in any way that gives it place of privilege over other human faults.

This is a big shift for me, since until maybe a couple years ago, I had pretty much the same views about racism as most Americans. I never thought it was very prevalent in America during my as-of-yet short lifetime, but if I did happen to come across a genuine example of it, like someone saying "I hate all niggers," I would've been duly horrified. But I have to admit that now it doesn't really bother me any more than any other boorish, mean-spirited, low-class comment would.

PLEASE NOTE: Lest I be misunderstood, I think we should strive to treat individuals as individuals whenever reasonably possible. There are no excuses for racial caste systems such as those in the old South or South Africa. Theories of master races or pure blood are immoral. Those who think the opposite are wrong.

Sorry, just to be clear, this part of my comment is also by Russell Wardlow:

This is a big shift for me, since until maybe a couple years ago, I had pretty much the same views about racism as most Americans. I never thought it was very prevalent in America during my as-of-yet short lifetime, but if I did happen to come across a genuine example of it, like someone saying "I hate all niggers," I would've been duly horrified. But I have to admit that now it doesn't really bother me any more than any other boorish, mean-spirited, low-class comment would.

Here's an interesting article regarding why the votes turned out the way they did: http://www.bostonnow.com/blogs/boston911truthorg/2008/01/09/major-allegations-of-vote-fraud-in-new-hampshire

I'd love to see an honest election counted by local people in broad daylight. I wonder what his percentages would be then?
Down w/ the Diebold and all electronic voting machines! Paper and pencil is the only HONEST way to vote!! I wonder why we don't do it like that any more? It really makes one think...

This doesn't make Ron Paul a terrible person; it just makes him a Republican.

"All of this is easily confirmed by a Google search."

Is this parody or self-parody?

That's a very interesting post, LaFollette Progressive. I supported the Iraq invasion, in some measure because it was the Serious thing to do. Because of that, I've gotten very impatient with the idea that "only wackos like Brent Skowcroft and Dick Durbin opposed the invasion." So it's interesting to hear your view from the other side.

Your point about the curiously restricted media is dead on. Somewhere out there on the internets there's a clip of a discussion about politics between Chomsky and WFB on TV in the late 1960s. The past is another country.

Ross, this is the best thing I've seen written on the Ron Paul letters. I used to float around in conservative circles when I was a college student in DC, and the farther one gets to the fringes, the more crazies one has to encounter. It's hard just to do away with them if - like Paul presumably was during the years when the Report was published - you're working your butt off trying to build momentum.

That said, he does need to say more - a LOT more - to explain these writings and apologize for his role, however minimal, in their publication.

I would add that there is too much Confederate nostalgia in paleoconservative and even paleolibertarian circles. One can quite firmly reject such nonsense without regarding it as especially heinous compared to other notions circulating in the polity.

A pretty thoughtful analysis by Ross, I must say, and maybe closer to the truth than either the anti-Paul or pro-Paul people tend to be.

Yet even here the same guilt by association smear rears its ugly head. Being pro-secession doesn't make anyone a racist. There are secessionists in Vermont. And Hawaii. And Alaska. And Quebec.

Secession is nothing more than a group of people expressing their desire to exercise the fundamental human right of self-government.

The fact that the original Confederate States of America allowed slavery when they seceded from the USA (as the original United States of America allowed slavery when they seceded from England) says nothing about whether people promoting secession now are racist or not.

Some of them may be, but advocating secession doesn't make them so, and speaking at a conference on the topic is an even more tenuous connection.

and here's another source for the same subject:
http://www.ronpaulwarroom.com/?p=655
voter fraud is a serious problem...what are we going to do to protect ourselves from it? Only a candidate can call for a recount.

Ron Paul's biggest problem is that his ideas are well thought out and supported by history, by experts and by statistics and oddly enough, the American people don't seem to get their "knowledge" this way and use distorted logic shaped by popularity instead.

I agree with John when he says "this is the best thing I've seen written on the Ron Paul letters." But I don't think it needs to be explained as a fringe-excuse. Every candidate has some nut-jobs or felons hanging around, on the right and left. No one drags down Huckabee because violent anti-abortion protestors support his candidacy, or Hillary because Gloria Steinman defends her, or anti-semitic Sharpoton supporting Obama.

Paul unequivocally said he doesn't and never has supported the letters' contents, he's the only candidate who accurately portrays the drug-war as rascist in application, and, given how the letters stand as the sole [and poor] evidence of his rascism, he probably deserves at least the same benefit of doubt given to other candidates.

Why does this fringy candidate get all this attention? Didn't Mike Gravel tell Exeter students to smoke pot? Didn't an entire state go for Nutty "Fair Tax" Huckabee?

It's sad when our culture will assume "guilty until proven innocent"... probably because we know we are all bigots, racists, and sinners in the depth of our own hearts.

I don't agree with all that this article claims, but I do want to thank you for lifting the fog to some degree. Anyone who saw Ron Paul take the lashings he has in the last two debates and the countless other times where he has been publicly mocked and yet has not let one cross word come forth, knows that he is not a man of hate. I suspect that he breaks the mold when it comes to aligning himself with others on the fringe, since he has taken the tough and solitary stand of being "Dr. No" in the Congress for many years. I tend to think that his idea of the universe is that he is just a player, swept up with the love of freedom by the revolutionaries that see him as their leader, but not their priest.

The oft repeated and dismal statements about how little gets done in Washington proves your point. While valid and urgent concerns are ignored and pushed to the fringe, our country is drifting toward a rocky shore. I was sickened by the last Republican debate at the number of times the word "Constitution" came wretching out of the mouths of those who do nothing to keep it alive.

Awesome, somehow you tapped into mental kinetic powers and now you can say you know what Ron Paul thinks!

Terrible article. Poorly written F+.... Plus for effort.

Its amazing, after 2000+ years some people will still a crucify good person, a person who cares. Amazing.

I guess there are a few strange people supporting ALL the candidates. The other day I was in a grocery store checkout line, wearing my Ron Paul button and a young black youth said "Obama, bitch!" and walked off laughing. I had to wonder if the black youth was educated in public school....

While at the Mall an older "gentleman" saw my button of Ron Paul's face over a flag. He told me he didn't have anything against Ron Paul...but he said I was desecrating the flag. He said he was for McCain. I had to wonder if the "gentleman" had a son serving in the armed forces as I do.

I just have to wonder if these people can understand what peace is...or is it too late for them. Are they so filled with hate that they wish it on everyone else, too.

Peace and goodwill towards all people.
Ron Paul 2008! Go, Ron, Go!

Beziers,

The reason Paul is getting so much criticism for all of this is because this hateful garbage was published in a newsletter with his name at the top, often with the pretense of having been written by him. If Mike Huckabee lent his name to an organization that advocated blowing up abortion clinics, imagine what would come his way ...

QUOTE: "This doesn't make Ron Paul a terrible person; it just makes him human. He believes in a constellation of ideas - some of them nutty, but some of them not - that have been shunted to the fringe of American political life. And people who find themselves in that position tend to be far, far more forgiving of their allies' various tics and idiosyncracies and yes, bigotries than would otherwise be the case."

In other words, you are saying that Ron Paul is an true, died-in-the-wool liberal who really believes in tolerance and free speech?

Bless you for having the courage to point that out Ross Douthat, there may be hope for America yet.

Two of the Ron Paul defenders in this thread have lied about Obama.

Al Sharpton has not endorsed Obama.

Louis Farrakhan has not endorsed Obama.

Why do Béziers and Timur Rozenfeld feel the need to lie about Obama in order to defend Ron Paul?

Perhaps if my political savior had put out a newsletter accusing MLK of being a pedophile, among a whole host of other equally offensive and digusting statements, I might feel a little desperate and ashamed, too. Embracing someone who turns out to be about two clicks short of a full-blown lunatic probably would be pretty soul-shattering. But I wouldn't stoop so low as to lie about another candidate in order to make mine seem more acceptable. For shame.

I didn't say endorsed, I said supported:

http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/story?id=2937953

PS: My point was not to attack Obama, but to attack those that use a double standard when judging Ron Paul supporters compared to other candidates, whose supporters are ignored.

Ron Paul is a patriot and a hero. He continues to fight for this country. Freedom from an oppressive government is what this country was founded upon. That works for everyone no matter what color or creed. Stop this guilt by association non-sense.

As yellow as this report may be, it at least had a grain of fairness. I think it accurately describes why some people with questionable views have been part of his early network. After all, neo-Confederates DO have some good ideas about States' rights and many White Nationalists DO have the right idea on abolishing the Federal Reserve. Of course, the motivation for these guys might be nuts but they are still donating their cash to Paul.

The difference is that Paul believes his positions for the right reasons. He takes money from these nutjobs and puts it towards something wonderful. Money from neo-Confederates is being put towards strengthening the Union and money from racists is being put towards defending the civil rights of all citizens. Now that's a good thing if I've ever seen one.

As for questionable things in his past newsletter, they were written by a staffer that was subsequently fired. Dr. Paul doesn't address them because he doesn't want to lend them credit. Racism is stupid and spending air time on it gives it the breath of life. He knows that and would rather use his limited media coverage to spread the message of freedom and liberty for ALL AMERICANS.

10th amendment (state's rights) = racism is an old meme that has delivered an unprecedented amount of power to the D.C. establishment.

The progressive lament the empire that this meme has created, and the conservatives should realize that its whittling away at the constitution and everything in the Bill of Rights. Yet, they both support the continuance of this idea that all who support federalism & states rights must be covertly in love with bigotry and racism.

Ron Paul is a great hero of the constitution, regardless of his failures, mis-steps, and inability to deal with controversy. He sets a new standard for the movement that will not roll over and die because its been painted with a broad brush.

Time will tell if fiscal conservatism will be thrown to the 'fringe' of political history. It would undoubtedly usher in a new era of Democrat-party dominance, but the resurgence would be there somewhere down the decades.

Wow. Good article Ross. Although I disagree with a couple of points.

1) From what I understand, he held a minority interest in this newsletter that he allowed to use his name. Knowing a bit about business, he was probably given the interest in exchange for his name, so he probably had little or no connection to the writers. So I wouldn't even say he looks past the flaws of his associates. I would say that they aren't even his associates.

2) I don't think Paul is the only champion of this cause...not anymore anyway. It's so clear that people are hungry for a Republican that maintains the values of the old GOP. It's also clear that you can raise money without whoring yourself to special interests. Moreover, his supporters verifiably range in the hundreds of thousands. Not just a few of them are likely to run for office themselves. Some will be better communicators. Some will be more handsome and younger. Some will be more imposing and impressive. Ron Paul will be with us for a long time.

It's exactly like this on the left, so yeah, it's just big-tentism that doesn't know when to stop. I'm usually the one for free speech, but with one strong caveat; if you're going to be tolerant, then you're also going to have to politely argue argue argue with the people you're being tolerant of, the anti-semites, etc. Otherwise you're just letting them stay to fill a folding chair, and then you deserve to have it bite you in the ass.

"The Constitution, the whole Constitution, nothing but the Constitution"
Hmmm.... Constitution doesn't say that there should be nothing but the Constitution...

Just try reading the federalist papers or any of the debates that went into ratifying the document.

Or heck, try reading the 10th amendment. Its pretty clear. Even the most rabid federalists realized the federal government should be limited to its enumerated powers.

None of this is new it has been addressed, to my satisfaction. It seems every month or so it is repackaged and sent out for another round. It doesn't seem to ring true with runningmates Dr. Paul has mentioned (Walter E. Williams) or his very vocal respect for Ludwig von Mises (who was Jewish).

As a Ron Paul supporter who was greatly troubled by the article in TNR, I want to thank you for this column. I think you hit the nail on the head.

Ross,

Good psycological theory, but it ironically exempts Paul from full personal responsibility, which is very un-libertarian. "Social dynamics made me do it!"

Let's at least consider the posibility that Paul is indeed a bigot, and didn't have a problem with those newsletters. It's a simpler explanation.

Those who defend Paul by saying he can't logically be a racist, because racism is a form of collectivism, are full of it. Patriotism is also a form of identity collectivism. Do Paul supporters also claim that he's not an American patroit?

Your theory may be better at explaing why so many weirdos glom onto Paul, rather than why he tolerates them. If you're a conspiracy fanatic of whatever stripe, Paul is the only one who comes remotely close to validating your fetish, if only by suggesting that "all is not what it seems". His appeal is wildly diverse, even as its limited

Paul's philosophy makes a lot more sense when we stop seeing him as a "libertarian" in the tradition of John Stewart Mill and start seeing him as a performance artist imitating a daffy politician circa 1900. The dismissal of blacks fits nicely within this vintage politics schtik

Look--the statements went out in a newsletter that had Ron Paul's name written on them.

Either he wrote them, which ain't good, or he was so-hands off on caring what went out under his name that he left it alone. For 10 years.

Leaders don't work that way. LAW doesn't work that way. You. Are. Responsible. For. The. Actions. Of. Your. Agents. And if you can't be bothered to do Due Diligence on people shoving out stuff under your name, then why in the heck should I think you would be any more responsible for running the country?

grumpy realist writes: "Leaders don't work that way. LAW doesn't work that way. You. Are. Responsible. For. The. Actions. Of. Your. Agents. And if you can't be bothered to do Due Diligence on people shoving out stuff under your name, then why in the heck should I think you would be any more responsible for running the country?"

Exactly. It's simply not likely that Paul wasn't aware of most of this crap, and it's not even possible to argue that he shouldn't have been. But he was used to being a kook, surrounded by kooks. A lot of his supporters remind me of LaRouche kids, and this constant refrain of "Dr. Paul" is hilarious. If Bill Frist were running I don't think you'd be hearing "Dr. Frist" constantly. (Though "catkilling sicko" would come up a lot.)

What is a neo-confederate?

I doubt such an animal exists beyond a disparaging tag for someone who believes that all people should have a right to self determination. Like those people in Georgia....the ones who left the USSR.

My Old Dad taught us that if a man wants to wash his hands in horse piss, that's his business. But don't shake hands.

Ron Paul shook hands.

Whether or not he wrote these letters, ignored them, or condoned them is irrelevant.

It happened 10 years ago. Lets talk about now.

Ending the war on drugs will be the single greatest thing any politician could do for racism and black empowerment. Not a single other candidate advocates this.

Like wise ending all aid to the middle east will be the best thing for Israel.

Are we all to be condemned or rewarded by what happened in our lives 10 years ago for the rest of our lives?

Politicians are not infallible gods that are some how better than the rest of us. All of the candidates have made mistakes in their lives.

I do not even care if he is a reformed racist. He is not a racist now. He stands for individual liberty 100% which is the opposite to racism.

"Look--the statements went out in a newsletter that had Ron Paul's name written on them."

Not to mention the fact they were written in the first-person ("When I was a flight surgeon... Happy Holidays from my wife Carol and my family"... etc). God knows if someone was writing something I found morally reprehensive as if it were my words for sixteen years, I'd do more than just fire some staffer.

If Paul finds this stuff as awful as he claims, surely he must have a memo to the editor, a lawsuit against the writer or some sort of cease and desist letter? A simple letter from the mid-90's that said "Stop writing this crap in my name" is all it would take to clear his name.

By the way, this isn't guilt by association tarring (which I find spurious). This is a first-person written newsletter with Paul's name at the top, which makes it a much, much bigger deal. Either

A) He disagreed with these views then and was negligent in exercising anything resembling oversight over a time period that stretched from the death of disco to the death of Kurt Cobain. A lack of oversight that stretched from before Yglesias was born until he was old enough to get a driver's license.

B) He agreed with these views at the time and has since changed his mind.

C) He agreed with these views then and still does now (which seems extremely unlikely)

D) He disagreed with these views then, but was willing to let them be published as if they were his views to draw support from the crazies. (I.e. "I have reached my conclusion that the federal government should be limited based on principled constitutional grounds, but if someone came to that same conclusion because they hate black people, well no harm no foul").

Franly, none of those options are attactive for a presidential candidate.

Johnny T writes: "Are we all to be condemned or rewarded by what happened in our lives 10 years ago for the rest of our lives?"

Ron Paul/OJ Simpson '08!

Ross makes a good point. Not only that, remember that this stuff was written before the world wide web. This means that if you were a voice out there advocating limited constitutional government and talking about the damage done by the federal reserve -- your voice was a very lonely one.

If you think that the MSM has ignored Ron Paul over the past several months, consider what it was like in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s. Perhaps at the time it was better to reach out and educate people who might be somewhat on your side than to sit alone.

As one other poster pointed out, just because you think Lincoln was a rotten man does not mean that you think that the government of the Confederacy is a model of good government. And just because you think that sesession would be a good check on federal power does not mean that you think black people should be enslaved.

That's the problem with fusionism and building bridges to other groups. It is the only way to grow, but a bridge is a road that goes both ways.

BTR

While I cannot and do not believe that Ron Paul is or was a racist, I don't see how it matters TOO very much even if he was a bit of one, seeing as how many of the candidates are probably just as racist if not more so (what? You think they're pure as snow?), and in any case Ron Paul's policies wouldn't harm african americans and minorities and would in fact help them. They will help everyone.

End the income tax? Strengthen the dollar?

Also it's time to end the reverse discrimination and the strong anti-racism hate. It's just white people who get called out for being racist or bigots, meanwhile anyone can say what they will about white people. Why are they exempt? A lot of what is labeled as racism is not. For example, observing statistical differences between any two given races is not racism, and neither is pointing out that some races are better at certain things, as a whole.

I'm tired of all this PC crap. Why can't we all just get along?

Max writes: "Ron Paul's policies wouldn't harm african americans and minorities and would in fact help them. They will help everyone.

End the income tax? Strengthen the dollar?

Also it's time to end the reverse discrimination and the strong anti-racism hate. It's just white people who get called out for being racist or bigots, meanwhile anyone can say what they will about white people. Why are they exempt? A lot of what is labeled as racism is not. For example, observing statistical differences between any two given races is not racism, and neither is pointing out that some races are better at certain things, as a whole.

I'm tired of all this PC crap. Why can't we all just get along?"

Because we don't.

Ron Paul has a better chance of crawling up the bowels of a gnat and meeting the Buddha than he does of enacting his fantasies into law. That his followers are singularly unaware of this is very odd.

MoeLarryAndJesus Writes: "Ron Paul has a better chance of crawling up the bowels of a gnat and meeting the Buddha than he does of enacting his fantasies into law. That his followers are singularly unaware of this is very odd."

Ron's followers are singularly aware that nothing that can be thought of can be proven impossible. It's amazing what can happen when you refuse to lose.

Re: Ending the war on drugs will be the single greatest thing any politician could do for racism and black empowerment. Not a single other candidate advocates this.

What?
Not onless you think that all black people are drug dealers. Most of them aren't you know.

This drug war nonsense is a red herring. What would really help African Americans in this country is to go after the Benedict Arnold corporations that send their factories overseas and throw Black men and women out of work.

Of course, I don't see Ron Paul complaining about that, because can't say anything bad about capitalism, now can we.

In an interview with Ron Paul a few weeks back, Tucker Carlson started out by noting that before his recent fundraising success, he was largely avoided by his fellow congresscritters; once the millions started rolling in, he began getting mobbed on the floor every time he showed up, with everyone wanting the know the secret to the "money bombs."

Ron Paul is like the loser kid in those cliche high school movies, who suddenly becomes popular, and is then expected to join the popular crowd in making fun of all the nerds he used to eat lunch with. That's a pretty low thing to ask a guy to do, even if his buddies are bigots.

Tommy quotes and replies: ""Ron Paul has a better chance of crawling up the bowels of a gnat and meeting the Buddha than he does of enacting his fantasies into law. That his followers are singularly unaware of this is very odd."

Ron's followers are singularly aware that nothing that can be thought of can be proven impossible. It's amazing what can happen when you refuse to lose."

Yes. For one thing, you can lose. That it's impossible for Paul to win the GOP nomination will be proven impossible in the next few weeks. After that his followers can continue to think that they'll find a bag of magical beans that will change that, but there are no such beans.

Maybe Paul can aim his sights at being the Emperor of Ice Cream instead.

Johny T,

Actually, most of history's most infamous racial oppressors talked quite a lot about liberty and freedom. From Aristotle who justified slavery, to Locke who invested in slave plantations, to Thomas Jefferson who raped his slaves, to Strom Thurmond who raped his sl- sorry i meant 'maid'- to the Apartheid South African government who spewed out gaseous nonsense about the Communist threat to Angola, to the Dutch- the most 'liberated' country in Europe- who made their mark in the 18th century slave trade. Usually when you hear someone of a certain stripe babble on about freedom and liberty, what they mean is the freedom to exploit other people.

I've always thought it apt and true what George III said, "How strange that we hear the loudest cries for liberty from the drivers of Negroes."

Do not fear to be eccentric in opinion, for every opinion now accepted was once eccentric.
- Bertrand Russell

MoeLarryAndJesus writes "That it's impossible for Paul to win the GOP nomination will be proven impossible in the next few weeks."

You wanna go back and read that again Moe?

Put the bottle down dude .. :-)

Tommy quotes and writes: ""That it's impossible for Paul to win the GOP nomination will be proven impossible in the next few weeks."

You wanna go back and read that again Moe?

Put the bottle down dude .. :-)"

I hate when that happens.

I know what you mean Moe ... been there :-)

""The Constitution, the whole Constitution, nothing but the Constitution"
Hmmm.... Constitution doesn't say that there should be nothing but the Constitution..."

Well actually, at the Federal level, it most precisely does. It might be time to reread it.

While you're fretting over bigotry, the concern of a truly leisured society, the American war machine is getting reading to take on the Iranian Speedboat Armada. So by all means, let's quibble over some mean words that Ron Paul might of said sorta twenty years ago. We must put an end to mean words at any cost, even if that cost is the continued bloodbath in the Middle East, and anywhere else this hydra of a nation has reached its tentacles.

Hmmm... "observing statistical differences between any two given races is not racism..."
Ranked: 1st- Asian, 2nd Caucasian,...(sounds good to you?)

Thomas Greene writes: "We must put an end to mean words at any cost, even if that cost is the continued bloodbath in the Middle East, and anywhere else this hydra of a nation has reached its tentacles."

The hydra of Greek myth didn't have tentacles. It was a serpent with multiple heads. And it's not like Ron Paul is going to win the nomination or the election, or that he is the only anti-war candidate, or that other questions about him can't be asked. That's simply a false premise.

What would really help African Americans in this country is to go after the Benedict Arnold corporations that send their factories overseas and throw Black men and women out of work.

Yes. Only Obama says this. Hoever, it's about the only position he has with which I agree.

Of course, I don't see Ron Paul complaining about that, because can't say anything bad about capitalism, now can we.

Hmmmm, yeah; I can see the logic in this objection. However, the idea of ending the Federal Reserve will do plenty to reign in the corporatocracy. When the billionares can no longer go to the Fed to get bailed out of the consequences of their selfish, usurious greed, but instead have to suffer the consequences of the business cycle like everyone else, the balance will tilt a good deal back toward equilibrium.

Believe me when I tell you, abolishing the Fed is Job #1 if this nation is to survive in anything resembling its original form.

Recently heard about these two books. They look worth investigating.

Is this the denseness of debate in a country which is floundering? Your money is no good, your neck deep in debt and this is it? Some guy wrote something some time ago and it's an item now? Grow up an look around. America, the Super Power that never bothered to have a civilization.

Lance, Canada


Respectable opinion, e.g. Naomi Wolf and Charlie Savage, support the idea that the US is inches from losing its constitution. We have a congress that does not execute the will of the people that voted them into power, instead giving Bush the right to torture any 'enemy combatant', which can include us. They gave him the power to declare an emergency and rule under martial law. They do not challenge his use of signing statements that reverse the intent of their laws.

We have vote fraud that no longer bothers to hide itself.

One presidential candidate opposes all of the above, sponsored the bill that reverses the Patriot act, etc. That man is Ron Paul, and his ideas were mainstream until very recently in US politics.

Minor minds in this forum spend their time parsing a smear, which no one believes is representative of the current man who is Ron Paul.

I will no doubt meet many of you useful idiots in the gulag.

Lew

You know, Thomas Greene, by your words you're not necessarily a traitor to the United States of America, not at all.

However, if you're not, you're a hypocritical chickenshit chickenJudas. Tentacles, blahblahblah...if you believe any of that, why the hell aren't you up in the hills with your gun and some beef jerky, instead of in your parents' basement with your PC and your gooey sock?

Face it, what you want is only achievable through the violent overthrow of the US Government.

So shit or get off the pot, whyncha? The worse the better, as Lenin said. So use those big brains of yours, smuggle a bomb and a boxcutter aboard an airliner, and make your own 9/11 type history. At least you could cut some fireman's throat, surely.

You're as fanatical, as impervious to reason as they are. There is no convincing you. No set of facts could change your mind. Therefore, there is really no reason to try. It's really more fun just prodding you at this point. But when you snap, it'll probably be at home or in your own community, so perhaps Darwin will have his way after all.

Then again, since you lack the guts, I guess everybody in Hickville can sleep tight.

PS If you are in fact Adam Gadahn, I apologize. You're right on target. Keep up the good work!

PPS All fucking Nazis must hang. And all their friends. Oh, commies too, don't get me wrong, but first things first.

But not your Islamofascist friends. Oh no. Better they should burn.

PPPS Moe, surely you don't think our doubting Thomas can read, do you?

PPPPS If any of you "nothing is impossible" types want to put your money where your mouth is, how much you wanna bet Paul wins it? Give you two to one. Ten to one? A hundred?

Your economy is floundering, tanking is a more appropriate word, your dollar is worth less then the Canadian dollar and losing ground against all major international currencies, gold is at an all time high, mortgage defaults and foreclosures at an all time high, credit card debt at an all time high, oil prices at all time high, inflation is on the move, recession is around the corner and what does the MSM media report on? Britney Spears.

Wake TF up America! Ron Paul is your ONLY HOPE! If the US economy tanks, so does Canada, as we are the world's largest trading partners. If we (Canada and the US) go, so goes the world. Forget dealing with climate change, the global energy crisis and global food crisis, because your dollar will be worth less then Weirmar Germany's.

When you default on your poorly built McHouse in your McSuburb and try to flee in your oversized SUV paying $50 dollars a gallon for gas because of inflation, don't bother coming to Canada, because if you don't vote Ron Paul, you won't have an excuse that we'll likely want to hear.

Get your collective heads out of your arses and educate yourself.

Change, change, change, change, change, change is the only thing ALL the other candidates are preaching, but no one is actually saying anything of REAL substance! Ron Paul HAS NEVER changed! He is the same man he was when he took office in the 70s. His ideas and values are solid!

For the sake of your country, Canada and the rest of the world, turn off "Dancing with the Stars" and educate yourself and get out and vote!

When you're filling your car with $3 gas and buying some $2.65 a dozen eggs, remember who is running on stopping deficit spending. The war for oil is what caused prices for anything that eats grain to skyrocket. When THOSE prices rise, the fresh fruit seller raises his prices again, now you have some nice $5 a pound grapes in the market. Laugh all you want, it's YOUR money being spent. YOU'RE the one going to pay $250 a week for groceries. Still think Ron Paul sounds like a bad idea? He's the ONLY candidate, Republican or Democrat that is running on reducing your cost of living. Maybe you have plenty money. Me, I'm not so rich.

Well, I really hate to use this as a defense, but as long as the gloves are off...

Even David Duke, "Chief of all Racists" states that Ron Paul is NOT a racist.

"I recognize that he does not share my view of the most important issue of all, the preservation the heritage and rights of the European American people."

http://www.davidduke.com/general/3339_3339.html#more-3339

There you have it, straight from the horse's mouth.
(or *** if you prefer)

If you understood how Ron Paul wants to eliminate your income taxes, you'd regret shoving your foot in your mouth.


If you vote for McCain, go to Iraq for 100 years yourself.

"I would add that there is too much Confederate nostalgia in paleoconservative and even paleolibertarian circles"

I've noticed this. And it's odd because the Confederacy really wasn't libertarian at all. It had a variety of restrictions on rights and not just on the rights of slaves. It was more plausible as conservative, but even then it was attempting what amounted to a radical and rapid change.

"Ron's followers are singularly aware that nothing that can be thought of can be proven impossible." Tommy

Umm maybe you're not aware that this sounds a tad New-Agey/unreal.

I'm sure I can think of things that can be proven impossible. I think I may have done so. I still like to think that we can have faster-than-light communication devices that let us talk to distand solar systems in an instant. However I recognize the idea will likely be proven impossible. (If it has not already proven impossible) If you've never thought of something that was proven impossible you either have no imagination or a naive belief that even the most outlandish things will be proven possible "someday."

Bigotry is more complicated than accretions of a few remarks society remembers is racially insensitive, infact this political race is hyper-sensitive and the dull blade of Paul's opponents cannot do much but a few blunt stabs in the dark. Bigotry is the typical ingsoc imputation to traduce your opponent, and this doesn't stem only from politics -- far older the academic tradition of baseless invective. Racism? Paul doesn't tacitly adhere to the idea that races exist and that one can even be racist, because that is illogical, and Paul tends to keep things on a reasonable plateau, not this Neoconservative optimism shielding the sheer terror and massive web of contradiction and absurdity and decadence that our contemporaries have weaved and hewed.

Don't you get it?

Not. Gonna. Happen.

Save your effing breath.

BTW, if Canucks are so smart, why don't YOU elect a Libertarian?

Thomas R wrote: I'm sure I can think of things that can be proven impossible. I think I may have done so. I still like to think that we can have faster-than-light communication devices that let us talk to distand solar systems in an instant. However I recognize the idea will likely be proven impossible. (If it has not already proven impossible) If you've never thought of something that was proven impossible you either have no imagination or a naive belief that even the most outlandish things will be proven possible "someday."

The most pathetic qualities of Ron Paul adversaries are the Ad Hominem attacks on a (perceived flaw) in Ron's character. A person who will resort to this kind of debate cares nothing for a quality life or a rational discussion, and in my opinion, is in the process of inner decay.

The obvious lack of a case against RP's campaign message or voting record is being replaced with "vitriolic make believe", by people afraid of losing their PORK.

This story is old news and has been rehashed for over a decade. It has once again been resurrected for obvious political reasons on the day of the New Hampshire primary, simply because Ron's message is frightening to people who live their lives knowing they have contributed nothing but deficit thinking to a world they have sucked dry.

I will be waiting for you to prove something impossible .. :-)

Anonymous types: "Bigotry is more complicated than accretions of a few remarks society remembers is racially insensitive, infact this political race is hyper-sensitive and the dull blade of Paul's opponents cannot do much but a few blunt stabs in the dark. Bigotry is the typical ingsoc imputation to traduce your opponent, and this doesn't stem only from politics -- far older the academic tradition of baseless invective. Racism? Paul doesn't tacitly adhere to the idea that races exist and that one can even be racist, because that is illogical, and Paul tends to keep things on a reasonable plateau, not this Neoconservative optimism shielding the sheer terror and massive web of contradiction and absurdity and decadence that our contemporaries have weaved and hewed."

Would you like some crackers with your gibberish?

I have probably read over 100 articles about Ron Paul in the last two months alone and it seems like deja vu when I read about and hear about these methodical and politically calculated attacks on Ron Paul about supposedly being a racist.

When I first got involved in politics in the early 1990's, I was a die hard supporter of Ross Perot and I voted for him in 1992 and 1996. I remember very clearly how the Media went out of its way to do the work of the RNC and the DNC to discredit that 3rd Party candidate. The Media made Perot out to look like he was crazy or a demagogue - and now most people realize that Perot was right about NAFTA and Free Trade deals with Communist China, etc.

When I supported Pat Buchanan during his campaigns in 1992, 1996, and 2000 - the Media did the same thing to him as they did to Perot. They attacked him for being crazy, extreme, a racist, an isolationist, etc. Buchanan did have some unorthodox views, but he brought very important issues to the races that he ran in - issues that the other establishment and Media-backed candidates (stooges) would have completely ignored otherwise.

Now it's Ron Paul's turn. He is the only non-establishment candidate in the race on the Republican side and he is not going to drop out before the Republican National Convention - and that scares people like Fox News and the writer that wrote this article. This may be the first time since 1928 that the Republicans are going to have to pick their nominee at their National Convention and Ron Paul will have lots of support and influence.

Of course, Ron Paul is NOT a racist - nor is he a racist because he associates with people that the Media or the politically-correct crowd consider racist. He has awesome ideas and his followers are so motivated that no amount of mud-slinging or character assassinating is going to slow him down or convince him to quit.

In fact, the more bad things you say about Ron Paul, the more it convinces the so-called voters on the Fringe that he's the right man for the job - since the Media and the establishment hate him so. You are giving him the credentials he needs and lots of voters are sick-and-tired of the self-righteous Media pundits trying to tell people who to vote for.

It's so ironic that the politically-correct zealots use hate speech to supposedly battle people who supposedly hate. Keep up the attacks, we need more support if we want to beat Giuliani or Thompson in another Caucus or Primary...

Fringe or no, some of these ideas should be part of the public discourse. I am not trying to defend Ron Paul, I am still learning about the guy myself, but I think it's important that all the voices that people worked hard to put on the ballot deserve to be heard, argued, discredited or whatever. People need to learn as much as they can about the person they are going to elect into this office. Education is key to making the best choice, and we shouldn't let networks decide who gets heard and who does not.

If you want the FCC to know that you feel the networks are marginalizing candidates that may have something important to contribute to the national discourse, go to the site myself and fill out the form we set up that goes to the FCC and FEC. We're hoping to do some good here, so I apologize if that pitch sounded too spammy. The site is here:

http://www.everybodyspeaks.com

"I will be waiting for you to prove something impossible" Tommy

I can do so pretty easily. I'd just need to get my Math or science books out, but it's certainly possible to prove that it's impossible to square the circle or make a perpetual motion machine.

And despite what you're saying I was not criticizing Paul in that post, I was criticizing something you said. I have no idea if Paul believes you can't "prove something's impossible." Considering his age and education I think he'd have more sense than that.

Apparently YOU didn't look beyond the links in Kirchick's diatribe either. Most of them are a crock, and they wouldn't be admissible in court, because they have no markings identifying who wrote them. The identifiable pieces are simply statements of fact and cannot in any way be construed as racist.

Please, get off the "Ron is a racist" bandwagon and do the research for yourself.