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What Obama Isn't

08 Jan 2008 06:11 pm

obamaspeech.jpg

I've followed with interest Andrew's explanations for how a libertarian conservative like himself can get behind Obama, and I think they make a good deal of sense: Given the issues that Andrew prioritizes, I think he ought to be supporting Obama in this race. (Though I also think he ought to support Hillary against a Republican, if it came to that, which I suspect he'd blanch at.) I do wish, though, that he'd acknowledge the sort of trade-offs he's accepting by backing a liberal Democrat, instead of letting his enthusiasm for Obama persuade him that all good things (from his libertarian point of view, at least) might go together. For instance, to a Bill Kristol remark about the liberal "nanny-state impulse," Andrew retorts:

From a conservative perspective, on spending, debt, big government, regulation, which Democrat could be worse [than Bush]?

As Reihan notes in response, it's very easy to imagine a "liberal Reagan," which is what Andrew has (not-unreasonably) argued Obama might turn out to be, being much "worse than Bush" - again, from a libertarian point of view - on most if not all of these fronts. Particularly given the kind of super-majorities that the Democrats might enjoy after an Obama landslide, and the party's leftward turn over the last few years. Nanny-state conservative though Bush may have been, there's still an enormous amount of space to his left on size-of-government issues - just ask the Europeans.

Similarly, I'm growing a little tired of the whole Obama-as-Burkean meme (which, to be fair, originated not with Andrew but with Larissa MacFarquhar). The fact that Obama is thoughtful enough to admit nuances and acknowledge trade-offs is a credit to him, but if being thoughtful and hardheaded is enough to make him a "conservative of doubt" then the word conservative has no meaning whatsoever. The brothers Kennedy, to whom Obama is frequently compared, had a similar capacity to sound more thoughtful and nuanced than the average politician; this does not make them anything other than the liberal Democrats that they were. Obama might turn out to be a liberal Reagan, who moves American politics leftward in a profound and enduring way, or he might be another JFK, better-remembered for his capacity to inspire (and his cult of personality) than for his actual accomplishments. Either way, he's very unlikely to be remembered as a Burkean.

Photo by Flickr user Allison Harger used under a Creative Commons license.

Comments (22)

Every four years, Andrew gets a man-crush on someone.

Actually, I think he may be right that Obama's liberal opinions are balanced by a very moderate temperament. We had that in Bill Clinton, and it gave us a booming economy and a balanced budget. Bush's conservative beliefs and rigid temperament gave us ....

I'm not sure I agree with that. To frame the terms: Burkean conservatism is a heavy bias toward tradition and habit, rather devoid of inherent, specific policies (except skepticism of all grand plans). All Burke insists upon is that any changes that occur have to be necessary and organic, i.e., natural from society's traditions and habits instead of some grandiose plot. Right?

Which of Obama's specific proposals, or which part of his rhetoric, or which part of his campaign, goes against that? He has spoken the language of someone who is willing to work with aristocrats rather than guillotining all of them. Through his grassroots field campaign, he's made an effort to ensure that the movement toward him is organic rather than a manufactured snooker of an unwary populace (see the record number of voters he's bringing.) Sure, sure; his policy proposals tilt to the left, but again: I don't think Burke would have a problem with left wing proposals so long as they are natural changes that come from a genuine and deeply felt need from, in America's case, the voting public. And the voters have wanted something to be done about health care, Iraq, etc. for a while now- it's pretty organic, if you ask me...

Also: George Will agrees with me. Quote from his column yesterday:

"Barack Obama, who might be mercifully closing the Clinton parenthesis, is refreshingly cerebral amid this recrudescence of the paranoid style in American politics. He is the un-Edwards and un-Huckabee - an adult aiming to reform the real world rather than an adolescent fantasizing mock-heroic "fights" against fictitious villains in a left-wing cartoon version of this country."

When George Will agrees, you win the Burkean Prize for the day.

Well, a lot of the Obama love seems rather crudely linked to Hillary hate, in Sullivan's case most obviously. I expect a sizable conservative cooling off towards Obama once (if) Hillary's out of the race and there's a single face in the Republican slot. Conservative cheering of Obama vs. Hillary really can't be extrapolated to conservative cheering of Obama vs. anyone else.

"Obama's legislative record, speeches, and the way he has run his campaign reveal, I think, a very even temperament, a very sound judgment, and an intelligent pragmatism. Prudence is a word that is not inappropriate to him."

I don't knw-- I think the "prudence" that Andrew sees is really a deliberate failure to communicate about substantive proposals at a time when such discussion would prove most helpful to voters, albeit possibly harmful to candidates. Is prudence merely calculated silence? If so, couldn't prudence be construed as deceitfulness for personal advantage and/or political expediency?

I wish it were more obvious what Obama stands for-- what proposals would he send Congress? At this stage in the game, it's not to his credit that anyone should have to ask this question, nor should he be lauded as prudent for his failure to clarify exactly how he would differ from his opponents, how he would execute some of these proposals. His ads are very moving-- the music, the appeal to people to make a difference, but where's the substance? I know more about Edwards than I do about the frontrunner.

I have to agree with Bill Clinton (for once) that the Media's giving Obama a free pass and that it does a disservice to us all.

If you think a guy who endorsed both Obama AND Ron Paul is motivated by any kind of coherent set of political beliefs, you're dumber than Andrew Sullivan. He's motivated by superficialities and the need to burnish his own "contrarian" brand. Nothing else.

So much about Obama. Usually 37% does not win anything. If there had been a runoff between Obama and either Clinton or Edwards, I am not at all sure Obama would have won. But in the news media rush to crown Obama King, that question was never asked. It should have been, and, if it had, Obama's victory would have been put in the proper perspective.

"Usually 37% does not win anything."

No, just solid and inspiring victories in Iowa. Unless, of course, you are just recycling the tired idea that 70 per cent of eligible voters did not vote for Hillary?

On the "Burkean" Obama. This strikes me as a conversation that might appeal to the odd political science wannabe, or perhaps an aspiring Little League philosopher, but I doubt that it has any significance in the 21st century. Burke hardly strikes me as a tremendously potent political force in our retail politician and media-driven times.

P -

I don't think George Will was arguing that Obama was a Burkean. That quote came at the end of an article that took shots at the tiresome populism of Hillary Clinton, Edwards, and Huckabee. Will has always been a sort of elitist conservative (not that there's anything wrong with that). I think that quoate refers more to Obama's cerebral style and rhetoric than any Burkean steak.

In the article, George Will took shots at the tiresome populism of Edwards and Huckabee, NOT Hillary Clinton. Arguably, Obama has more populism bent than Hillary during this campaign.

The key question for Andrew Sullivan re Obama is: cut or uncut.

Peel: Your lack of intelligence is deafening.

wph:

"...took shots at the tiresome populism of Hillary Clinton, Edwards, and Huckabee."

Quite right. But contrasting the cerebral, prudent style of Obama with the "grand vision" tilt of the populist Edwards (corporations are evil!) and Huckabee (win this nation for Christ) makes Obama a relatively Burkean type, does it not?

What Will or Burke loathe about populist demagoguery is that their story is a black-and-white narrative based on a grand worldview. Their policy prescriptions are thus based not on organic changes happening on the ground, but on fidelity to a quasi-socialist or Christian-reformist ideal. Both of those are anthema to Burke's caution and adherence to tradition and habit, wouldn't you say?

Nobody is whipped into a hysterical fervor about being cautious and practical in solving problems. I guess that's how I can't suss out Will's "elitism" from his Burke-ish bend. But you could see where despising the populism if Edwards and Huckabee could have a Burkean flavor to it...

I think Sullivan is largely motivated by emotion, but I don't think he's stupid.

I think his position is not so much supporting an ideology, but a desire to punish or obliterate ideologies he dislikes. For whatever reason he still feels Bush supporters have not been punished quite enough. Paul is about as far as you can go in wanting to hurt Bush and destroy everything his people believe in. Obama also does that by just being a Democrat and is a stick in the eye of the Clintons who he also dislikes.

So Paul being on record as opposing Lawrence vs Texas and same-sex marriage would not be an issue, because Sullivan's hostility to Bush or Christianists trump(ed) that. (He seems to be wavering at the moment. Possibly in a few weeks the feeling of "betrayal" will seep in and he'll treat Paul as he does Bush)

That said I can see a strategic reason for a Republican supporting Obama. The Congress is very important and an inexperienced Democratic Senator as President could conceivably lead it to be Republican again. Part of his idea is that, although he adds some pie-in-the-sky dream of Republicans becoming true-blue Thatcherites and that probably won't ever happen.

"So Paul being on record as opposing Lawrence vs Texas and same-sex marriage would not be an issue,"

Also this claim is not from a newsletter, this is from speeches he made in Congress.

I actually don't put much stock in the newsletter. I think he's kind of lackadaisical about some things and attracts racists, but I don't think it means that much about him.

first off we dont need the same type of government we have had for the last 7 1/2 years, which is what we would get again if a demo gets in office, because with the number of repubs not running again this surely will give more seat to the demos in the legitlature, and with the distrust of the republican party it surely will mean more seat for the dems,and if you think for one minute the retoric wont be the same your kidding yourself. Look at pelosi and her retoric and how things were going to be different,she have done NOTHING but argue with the exec branch and the repub legistlature. Its all ego nonsense and the american people are being suffocated by it. and furthermore Obama hasent even got his feet wet and you want him to run the country? Where ? He cant even give a straight answer to anything, the typical beat around the bush stuff. This is the same guy that was going to do so much for his state, and did nothing, he is power hungry, just like the rest of them.and we dont need our preacher boy in there either, we have one of those now, and see the mess we have.

In the past I, as I’m sure many of you , have felt as though when I voted for a presidential candidate; I was voting for the lesser of two evils. I have since realized that the lesser of two evils is still evil. This election I have looked at the issues and the candidates, researched their record and determined that congressman Ron Paul deserves my vote and
I think, the vote of every liberty loving person in America. Ron Paul has been in Congress almost 20 years and he has never voted for a tax increase, a congressional pay raise or anything that was not constitutional. He is a firm believer in the second amendment and has always voted for our right to bear arms. He stands four square behind our military, but believes the war in Iraq is unconstitutional and we should bring our troops hope to secure our borders from the illegals who are making a mockery of our system of laws. We presently have troops in over a hundred countries around the world. The money these people spend is propping up the economy of these countries. If these troops were brought home that money would be spent in the US. Think what a boost for our economy.
Congressman Paul believes that we are entitled to the fruits of our labor, not some bureaucrat in Washington on some dictator in a foreign country. He would abolish the
IRS and end our repressive income tax. If the American citizens retained the dollars that are taxed away by Washington we could have a better standard of living, create jobs and businesses and provide for our families
Ron Paul is an OB/GYN and as such has delivered over 4000 babies and believes in the sanctity of life. As a doctor he knows from first hand experience the increase in the cost of health care in this country caused by the bureaucracy in Washington and would work to provide affordable health care for all Americans.
All of the candidates are talking about change. We have changed over the years We started as a constitutional republic firmly rooted in our religious beliefs, our sense of fair play; our respect for laws and justice and our self reliance. We have let our religious beliefs be thrown on the trash heap of secularism our constitution has been perverted to mean whatever the party in power wants it to mean and our self reliance has given way to dependence on government
If we truly want change, if we want God in our country and the rule of laws of the constitution, if we want a sound monetary system and the respect of the rest of the world
We must have a leader who has a proven record of voting the Constitution.
Congressman Ron Paul

DID I HEAR RIGHT THAT OBAMA'S PARENTS WERE RADICAL MUSLIMS? HE WENT TO A MUSLIM SCHOOL AND REFUSES TO PUT HIS HAND OVER HIS HEART DURING THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE & HE TURNS HIS BACK ON THE FLAG DURING THE PLEDGE. IF HE IS CATHOLIC,AS-HE-SAYS; THEN WHY DID HE TAKE THE OATH ON THE KORAN? IF I AM WRONG, THEN I STAND AS CORRECTED.

Of course he isn't a liberal he was educated as a Muslim.

I can't believe that american citizens would even think of electing a man presitent that disgraces the flag like obama does.

DID I HEAR RIGHT THAT OBAMA'S PARENTS WERE RADICAL MUSLIMS? HE WENT TO A MUSLIM SCHOOL AND REFUSES TO PUT HIS HAND OVER HIS HEART DURING THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE & HE TURNS HIS BACK ON THE FLAG DURING THE PLEDGE. IF HE IS CATHOLIC,AS-HE-SAYS; THEN WHY DID HE TAKE THE OATH ON THE KORAN? IF I AM WRONG, THEN I STAND AS CORRECTED.


Posted by DON


Firstly, Barack is a Protestant (United Church of Christ, specifically), NOT a Catholic, nor has he ever claimed to be Catholic (not in the last two decades, anyway - see http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17701499/). Secondly, he has never refused to put his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance - this was a nasty chain-mail that was started by right-wing conservatives regarding a photo that appeared in Time Magazine that shows him without his hand over his heart during the NATIONAL ANTHEM - NOT the Pledge of Allegiance (http://www.time.com/time/photogallery/0,29307,1662530_1446035,00.html). I don't put my hand over my heart during the National Anthem either...I suppose this makes me Muslim too? Hardly.

In regards to the remark that he was sworn in on the Koran - this is FALSE. Only one member of Congress has ever been sworn in on the Koran, and that was Minnesota Representative Keith Ellison in 2007. Look it up.

Folks, this is 2008 - ELECTION YEAR. Anyone who takes any political rumors such as Don posted at face-value really shouldn't be voting. You HAVE to do the research on anything that sounds even remotely radical to find out if it's coming from a credible source, to find out if it's fact or fiction. While I am most certainly a liberal, this goes for ANYONE. If you hear something about a Democratic candidate you're not sure about - research it. If you hear something about a Republican candidate - research it. If I hear something about a Republican candidate, although liberal, I STILL do my research because I want to be able to separate fact from fiction - that's my duty as an educated voter - to know as much about every candidate as absolutely possible. Just some food for thought. Uneducated voters truly irk me. The welfare of our country is at stake here, people....so please, educate yourself on the candidates. I don't care what your political affiliation is - education is extremely important regardless of that.

THIS IS WHY I ASKED THE QUESTION ABOUT OBAMA'S PARENTS AND HIS REFUSAL TO PUT HIS HAND OVER HIS HEART DURING THE PLEDGE. I DIDN'T KNOW IF IT WAS A RUMOR OR NOT. I JUST WANTED AN ANSWER AND THE FACTS; I GOT IT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.