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A Romney Comeback?

03 Feb 2008 03:33 pm

Not likely. But neither is Hugh Hewitt being delusional when he throws out Rasmussen numbers showing Romney gaining in places like Tennessee and Missouri, California and Georgia. So far, the Republican primary campaign has demonstrated fairly emphatically that the movement conservative establishment, from Rush and Hannity to the Club For Growth, isn't nearly as powerful as many observers assumed it to be. But now I think the pendulum has swung too far in the opposite direction, and many commentators are underestimating the impact that a movement establishment united behind Romney could have on the outcome of the race - or could have had, that is, given world enough and time. Except that there isn't time; the movement has rallied to him too late. Hewitt invokes the Feiler Faster Thesis, and notes how swiftly conservative activists derailed the Harriet Miers nomination and the "comprehensive" immigration package. But Patrick Ruffini, writing on the same blog, makes the key distinction:

... Hugh equates the current struggle against McCain with Harriet Miers and the 2007 McCain-Kennedy bill. But there seems to be a misapprehension here about how information moves from opinion leaders to the base, and who the target audience is.

In the Miers case, it was a fight amongst legal elites. Having no dog in the fight, the general Republican electorate eventually fell in line with the anti-Miers forces. Likewise, immigration was a tiff between party activists and Congress; our levers of influence were clear.

Changing the trajectory of this primary is a lot trickier. Like Miers and immigration, the argument has been won amongst the activist class (this is why establishment conservatives are finally falling in line, and why Romney wins caucus votes everywhere but the South). The problem is that we also have to convince a plurality of 15-20 million primary voters with countervailing interests, starting in 22 states, not just that McCain is wrong but that Romney is the answer. And the lines of influence aren’t always clear. Do radio hosts based in DC, New York, and Palm Beach matter as much in places like Huntsville, Alabama and Murfreesboro, Tennessee — where McCain is good enough for many war-minded, loosely attached conservatives?

Ruffini, who's backing Romney, adds that "this is not a call to despair. It’s a call to get to work." And if the activist class had a month to work with - and Huckabee had a month to keep fading, and McCain had a month to wear out his welcome as the front-runner - I think Hewitt, Rush, NR and Co. might be able to pull it off. But my bet is that even with a last-minute surge, Super Tuesday will leave the Romney campaign in too deep a hole to scramble out of, no matter how many activists, pundits, and radio hosts are giving them a leg up.

Comments (52)

Sigh.

As a liberal from Old Europe, I hope Hewitt is right and you're wrong about this, Ross. I'd very much like to see a Democrat win in November, and it seems obvious to any thinking person that Romney would be a *much* easier opponent than McCain.

Do you conservatives want to lose the election, or what? Mitt has been running a lousy campaign so far -- what on Earth makes Hewitt & co. think Romney would be more successful against e.g. Barack Obama?!?! Romney's image as a self-made business millionaire might seem attractive to GOP elites, but his relative lack of success with actual GOP voters suggest he is a weak politician.

MARCU$

Forget about Talk Radio if you want the GOP to grow and prosper. Rush Limbaugh is the Parmenides of the Far Right. Parmenides was the Greek philosopher who believed nothing actually moved, and that all apparent motion was an illusion.
Obama = Change. Limbaugh = Standing Still.
Too bad they didn't have radio in ancient Greece, he'd have had a large following of oliveheads.
Limbaugh is the Wizard of Oz of Talk Radio, the great and all-powerful voice of the Far Right, commanding an army of angry listeners - who don't vote. He's omnipotent on the radio, impotent at the polls.
On Meet the Press this morning, Mary Matalin says McCain has to kowtow to the base or he has no hope in November. If McCain kowtows to the base, it will be the largest Democrat landslide in history. For McCain to win, Limbaugh has to lose.

Hewitt and Rush are still bellowing for Romney - Dan Quayle with 30 extra IQ points - and people like Kevin Drum on the left are still wistful for the spavined old nag he'd like to run instead of the thoroughbred his party has available. What is it with these people?

Nah, this is a done deal-- Romney just didn't resonate with voters, and if he stays in after Tuesday, he will look ridiculous.

The only question now is who should McCain pick for Veep. I had been thinking Romney would be the best running mate to mobilize the base, but now I'm thinking it would be so easy for the Dems to demonize him as the embodiment of "evil" corporate culture...

Any close observer Of Mitt Romneys tenure as Gov.will tell you that the pro-abortion and pro-homosexual forces never lost any battles under his tenure and that in fact, they grew in power and influence. Romney did nothing to restrain the groups who have launched a jihad on America’s Judeo-Christian culture.

On so many occasions, the liberal agenda could have been slowed down or even defeated with the smallest internal regulatory decision or executive order and yet he never used the power he had to do that. He gave up the battlefield to our enemies over and over again.

This is why every conservative in America needs to question his overly hyped conversion to conservatism. How can we trust a man who has done so much damage to causes dear to our hearts who has suddenly become a conservative only after deciding to run for President?

Fourteen years ago the country was duped by a charming, smooth talking “moderate” Democrat named Bill Clinton who used the power of the Presidency to inflict great damage to America’s military, to our intelligence agencies, and to our culture. The gap between how Clinton appeared to most Americans and how he really governed was huge. We cannot afford another President like that.

On Tuesday night they will be calling Mike Huckabee the comeback kid and Romney the drop-out!

And Rush (though not necessarily Hannity and High Hewitt) is still definitely very relevant-- McCain would be crazy not to try to mkake some amends with Rush. Going to CPAC is critical here and will help. I don't think the media will turn, guns blazing on him for this-- they'll just see it as something he had to do to get elected.

McCain must 'kow-tow' to the base? McCain is famed for his independence from the Republican base. Romney is just as famous for his liberal brand of conservatism, another 'base'-baiter.

The Republican 'base' has already lost; a clear favorite will emerge this week, and neither major candidate remaining has any deep political debt to the base for their victory. Either the base will stay home and not vote in November, or they'll vote Republican while holding their nose because they perceive that the Democratic alternative is so much worse. The 'true-believers' of the Republican base are still influential, but no longer dominant.

The only way to stop McCain is with a McCain-Romney Debate on the economy. McCain loses if he debates and loses if he doesn't.

The Republican base agrees that the bush tax cuts were not for them but for Romney and his ilk. Mccain voted against them. He was right and now he will be rewarded. Thank you bush. Because of you America is now ready for change. Go war!

"This is why every conservative in America needs to question his overly hyped conversion to conservatism. How can we trust a man who has done so much damage to causes dear to our hearts who has suddenly become a conservative only after deciding to run for President?"

Fred, are you talking about Romney here, or McVain?

In fairness to McVain, he barely pretends to care about the right even now.

"The gap between how Clinton appeared to most Americans and how he really governed was huge. We cannot afford another President like that."


Again, it is Mcvain who is pulling the wool over peoples eyes. He is identical to Clinton and Obama is all significant respects.

"The Republican base agrees that the bush tax cuts were not for them but for Romney and his ilk. Mccain voted against them."


I can tell that you are a member in good standing of the Democratic Party base.

In my view the nation is on a collision course with reality for the next five years no matter who is in office. We're actually going to have to grapple with our huge budget and trade deficits, soaring entitlements, shrinking quality of life, a declining school system (which, of course, has absolutely nothing to do with the huge uneducated populations swarming across our borders (LA schools do so well!)), and the withdrawal from Iraq. No one, no matter their political affiliation, will have an easy time of it, and the country isn't yet ready to make the real, hard choices to deal with it. Just look at their support for the so-called "stimulus package," which is little more than a bipartisan effort to move the recession down the road past the next election.

So it's probably best to give the liberals McCain, Clinton or Obama a shot at dealing with it and let the country see just how incompetent they are. Then conservatives can come in and clean up in 2010 and/or 2012.

Again, it is Mcvain who is pulling the wool over peoples eyes. He is identical to Clinton and Obama is all significant respects.

He may or may not be, but in the end the differences will matter little. The real point is that his immigration policies would transform the country so thoroughly politically that in the end all of his conservative positions would be wiped away.

Mass immigration has meant the death of any sort of a common culture in America and, what flows from that, has been the death of conservatism. Conservatism - the real kind, not the Wall Street Journal kind - was all about culture.

In the mid-1980s the United States, population 238 million, had little trouble maintaining a high-quality full-time military of 2.2 million (mostly) men. Over 20 years later the US, a few short years after one of the most devastating attacks in US history, and with a population now 304 million, is struggling to keep 1.4 million men in arms, even after lowering the qualifications dramatically (the Army now allows 30% of recruits to be high school dropouts) and after opening up large numbers of positions to women.

America as we knew it is dead, killed by the grand idiotic experiment known as multiculturalism - and conservatism is dead with it.

"So it's probably best to give the liberals McCain, Clinton or Obama a shot at dealing with it and let the country see just how incompetent they are. Then conservatives can come in and clean up in 2010 and/or 2012."


In the eyes of the public, McCain is and will be presented as a conservative. Better to let the Democrats win than to further tarnish the Republican label.

"America as we knew it is dead, killed by the grand idiotic experiment known as multiculturalism "


Substitute liberalism for multiculturalism and I can't argue with that. All that's left is to start speculating at what will come after.

"So it's probably best to give the liberals McCain, Clinton or Obama a shot at dealing with it and let the country see just how incompetent they are. Then conservatives can come in and clean up in 2010 and/or 2012"

The statement above is pretty amazing. What planet are you from? Conservatives were in power for the last six years, huge majorities. Conservatives were in charge of every House and Senate Committee. The legislative agenda was set by conservatives. The problems that face this country now are of conservative making, not Democrat. And no, a year with a close majority does not place the recent financial difficulties on the Democrats. Conservatives were the ones proved incompetent, hence 2006 Democrat victories and the transfer of Congressional power. What is difficult for me to understand, and maybe I don't need to understand, is how could a conservative right here and now, say with a straight face that conservatives will clean up the mess of incompetents? Was Bush competence made flesh to you? Do you repress the fact that your party and movement were in charge for so long and failed so totally. The dollar is weak, terrorist on the rise in Afganistan, a three trillon dollar deficit, a looming recession. Do you think that conservatives had no hand in this mess? Where is the threshold where you being to accept or at the very least acknowledge that one lesson of this administration is that conservatisim is great on rhetoric but cannot govern to save their lives.

But judging from the quote it seems that winning is more important than making sure America stays the leader of the world. So, in 2010 or 2012 when the conservatives win back the presidency, and America's problems still have not been fixed, I will be so happy for you.

Do you repress the fact that your party and movement were in charge for so long and failed so totally.

My party was in charge, my movement was not. I don't think that any sane person out there can say with a straight face that Bush was a conservative in any real sense.

No, the problems America faces now are not all products of the conservative movement, because they existed long before and continued to exist long after.

I will give members of my party and movement some share of the blame, but certainly not all. Democrats support open borders and soaring entitlements to a man. To the extent that America ever manages to get control of these and other problems, it is too often over the heads of leftists, not with their support.

In the eyes of the public, McCain is and will be presented as a conservative. Better to let the Democrats win than to further tarnish the Republican label.

Not much argument there, but McCain is such a darling of the media that I certainly won't forget the fact that he is not a conservative, nor will most conservatives.

I intend to be voting for a third party candidate if McCain is the GOP nominee come November.

Substitute liberalism for multiculturalism and I can't argue with that. All that's left is to start speculating at what will come after.

Liberalism AND multiculturalism. In spite of liberal harangues, the result of their social policy has been to turn what was once a nation into little more than a foreign bazaar. No one cares much for it except to the degree they can profit from it.

Liberalism today is void of any ideas which don't involve taking yet more freedom away from indivduals and giving them up to the state. Government has become nothing more than a tool for stealing wealth from one group and reassigning it to another.

But judging from the quote it seems that winning is more important than making sure America stays the leader of the world. So, in 2010 or 2012 when the conservatives win back the presidency, and America's problems still have not been fixed, I will be so happy for you.

WTF? Where did I imply that I didn't want our problems fixed? My view, as I pretty clearly pointed out, is that we don't have the will to fix them and that, to the extent we do, most of the proposed solutions of leftists are not the answer. (I do agree with the left, however, on letting the Bush tax cuts expire).

Sometimes you have to try all the proposed easy fixes before voters come to the realization that only the hard solution will work - if they ever come to that conclusion.

And since when did leftists really care about keeping America on top? Their whole rhetoric these days is about how evil and greedy Americans are and that morally we aren't entitled to be on top. They seem to think that we should send all our wealth to the world or else bring the entire world here because an American is no more entitled to the fruits of our nation anymore than someone from Guadalajara or Beijing.

"I don't think that any sane person out there can say with a straight face that Bush was a conservative in any real sense."

You can't claim that he is not a conservative when after 9/11 the midterm, and the 2004 election he was the darling of the conservative movement.


"My party was in charge, my movement was not"

This is a bunch of crap. You had conservative think tankers crafting policy on all levels, from torture to tax cuts. You had NR editors in the oval office having chats with the president. Second, with the defeat of amnesty and Miers both of which were movement issues, the very fact that they were defeated proves the conservative movement was in control. Also the nominations of Alito and Roberts which were movement choices

"most of the proposed solutions of leftists are not the answer"

This is a statement that I always find interesting. We have seen the conservative answer to questions and they have not worked. Tax cuts do not equal revenues. A sprawling war in Iraq without a clear goal for victory with an unlimited budge has not worked. So, how in the world do you know Democratic answers (spare me the leftists, and other vaguely Marxist terminology) will not work. Do you know for a fact that they will not? Or do you just presume they won't because for some bizarre reason you think Democrats are trying to destroy America or some such nonsense. If you are really interested in fixing America's problems, can't we as a country try another approach to see if it produces desired results?

"Sometimes you have to try all the proposed easy fixes before voters come to the realization that only the hard solution will work - if they ever come to that conclusion"

Once again why do you presume that these solutions only come from the right? Name me one hard solution proposed by the right to fix anything during the past seven years. And no, mass deportation of all illegals does not count because it will never happen, both parties need the Latino vote to survive.

"And since when did leftists really care about keeping America on top? Their whole rhetoric these days is about how evil and greedy Americans are and that morally we aren't entitled to be on top. They seem to think that we should send all our wealth to the world or else bring the entire world here because an American is no more entitled to the fruits of our nation anymore than someone from Guadalajara or Beijing"

Really? You are telling me that you cannot concieve of a person with left of center politics actively trying to seek the sustain America's place in the world. Our image around the world has taken a hit over during this administration. We cannot be leaders of the world, and at the same time say the opinion of the world does not matter. As for immigration, are you kidding me? That mass amnesty bill that was signed in the 80s what was that president's name, that conservative one, you know the president that all conservatives hold up as the standard . . .oh yeah Ronald Reagan. As for your last statement, if you really believe that about people, hard working decent Americans who have just as much stake in America as you do, then you are really lost to a form of partisanship that has no end, and all your politics are a strange amalgam of whatever stuff you hear from Rush, Sean, or whoever. There is a difference between the "leftist" in your head and the Democrat that votes with their conscience (just like you do).

Second, with the defeat of amnesty and Miers both of which were movement issues, the very fact that they were defeated proves the conservative movement was in control.

Once again, WTF? And who, exactly, were conservatives fighting on Miers and amnesty? W himself - which is to say that Bush has serious difficulties claiming to be a conservative.

Yes, conservatives did rally to him after 9/11, because it's in the nature of conservatives to rally to their country's defense. So sue us.

We cannot be leaders of the world, and at the same time say the opinion of the world does not matter.

I don't care to be a leader of the world. The rest of the world can do as it pleases.

We can argue back and forth all day about whose at fault for what. I'm sure you will continue to blame Republicans for everything and assert that the solution lies with electing Democrats....which, as I recall, is just the solution I myself suggested to begin with.

Not because I think the Democrats will actually solve the problems, but because we'll get to see that they're as incompetent, and their "solutions" as boneheaded, as the alleged conservative George W Bush.

If Mitt Romney was a halfway decent conservative candidate, the current "we must stop McCain before it is too late" movement would have been moot because Romney would have stopped McCain already. The reason that McCain has risen again is because there is no true conservative candidate out there that ran anything resembling a competent campaign.

"He is identical to Clinton and Obama is all significant respects."

No he's not. Despite some quotes you may be able to find he is certainly not identical on abortion, North Korea, or government waste.

http://councilfor.cagw.org/site/VoteCenter?location=S&page=congScorecard
http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/#

In addition the "Secular Coalition of America" gives him a 20, but gives those two 90 or above.

http://votesmart.org/issue_rating_detail.php?r_id=3433

The Club for Growth certainly indicates there's a difference

http://www.clubforgrowth.org/

What it all comes down to is the Huckabee and Paul voters. If even 10-20% of them smarten up and vote for Romney as the viable McCain alternative, Romney wins. If not, McCain will clean up with plurality in the low-30's.

"What it all comes down to is the Huckabee and Paul voters. If even 10-20% of them smarten up and vote for Romney as the viable McCain alternative, Romney wins. If not, McCain will clean up with plurality in the low-30's."

Paul voters never expected Paul to win, and are not likely to abandon him now. As for Huckabee voters, they would probably vote for McCain before Romney--and not just because Romney is a Mormon, though in some cases that does play a role. Rather, the Huckabee voters are just not standard conservatives--certainly not supply side/Club for Growth types. They are evangelicals who are often on the "Left" on economic issues. And on abortion McCain can claim to have been pro-life long before Romney.

That's probably true of Paul, but also probably doesn't matter. He really touted his hope of winning Maine, even if it's non-binding, as I guess it gave more hopes of him playing a role in brokered convention. However he was third again. His second place showing in Nevada seems to be the best he can manage and I doubt he'll be much of a player if there is any deal. As I expected he's sort of the political version of "Snakes on a Plane." (An Internet phenomenon with vociferous supporters, that ends up with respectable yet basically disappointing returns)

I could see Huckabee's people going McCain. The social conservative element of the party is often more middle-class and includes some actual poor people. Well-groomed tycoons from the Northeast or Utah is not exactly what they like. Although I have a feeling some Huckabee supporters might be tempted to stay home because McCain is not exactly a perfect fit for them either. (Even if he is now a Baptist.)

Well to have some actual stats to back it the latest Pew Survey shows Huckabee voters view McCain a good deal more positively than Romney.

http://people-press.org/reports/display.php3?ReportID=392

McCain is now ahead in all Republican sub-groups except Evangelical Protestants who are split between him and Huckabee. In this poll Romney is closest with those who make $40,000-79,000 where he is just 8 percent behind. Among conservatives, in this poll, Romney is only nine points behind McCain.

"We can argue back and forth all day about whose at fault for what. I'm sure you will continue to blame Republicans for everything and assert that the solution lies with electing Democrats....which, as I recall, is just the solution I myself suggested to begin with"

I still do not understand this statement. Blame Republicans for everything? Who was in charge of the US government for six years of clear majorities in the House, Senate, not to mention most state governments as well. Conservatives were in charge for 2002-2006, with huge majorities which allowed for the passing of any legislative bill they wanted. You might disagree with Democrats, Harry Reid, but their ideas were not made into actual policy. Conservatives saw massive tax cuts, huge defense spending, muscular foreign policy, you name it.

I cannot understand how anyone could emerge out of the Bush years and not see how conservatism failed. Immigration and Miers, or spending (which many conservatives did give a hoot about for a long time) erase all of the conservative policies implemented by Bush that did not work.

Check my Top Ten Reasons for "supporting" that big phony, McCain:

1. He promises to catch Osama Bin Laden. Question is, if he does catch him, will he then fine him $3000, grant him amnesty, and give him a lifetime Z-Visa? Probably, but only if Ted Kennedy agrees to it.

2. McCain claims that he is the only real conservative because when he participated in a spelling bee in grade school, he was asked to spell that very word. McCain proudly remembers yelling out: “conservative, L-I-B-E-R-A-L “

3. He claims to know everything about the economy but won’t respond to any questions about it. That’s OK because he says that he can always hire managers.

4. The answer to every question he is asked in a debate, regardless of the topic, is “I’m strong on Iraq.” He says this simplifies things and then proudly claims that he is above answering any of these questions anyway because he (and any legislation he would propose) is the only answer to any problem that could ever arise in America.

5. The word Amnesty doesn’t exist in his vocabulary. Therefore, there can be no such thing as granting amnesty to anyone.

6. He claims that Ronald Reagan would strongly support him because, just as Al Gore invented the internet, McCain invented the conservative movement.

7. If he is elected, McCain promises to finally stop saying “listen, my friends” before responding to any question.

8. McCain acknowledges that he is no Jack LaLane, but states that his age shouldn’t matter because he will promise to get brain scans once a week, if elected.

9. McCain promises that he will continue to “reach out” to the most extreme liberal Democrats, like Feingold and Kennedy, so he doesn’t appear to be too conservative.

10. Finally, my favorite. Bill Clinton says that a Hillary/McCain contest would be the most civil in the history of the US. To prove Bill correct, McCain promises to hold hands with Hillary across the podiums every time they debate. Bill says that’s OK with him because he can go out and chase another fat chick while they’re debating.

Had enough?? Then vote for Romney!!!! Go MITT!!!!

I hear that the former president of Mexico, Vicente Fox, just endorsed his amigo, Juan McCain. McCain stated that he is very grateful for the endorsement and will show his appreciation by allowing another 20 million illegals into the country, if elected.

Had enough?? Then vote for Romney!!
Go MITT!!!!

"Had enough?? Then vote for Romney!!"

Why? Because Republicans need to not merely lose the Presidency, but lose in Goldwater '64 level proportions?

Whether it's right or wrong people do not like Romney. In a general election he'd be pounded by even Hillary. As for your list it's mostly bad-jokes you invented.

And why is Romney some conservative hero? Besides immigration can you name some great conservative thing he did? (Running against Ted Kennedy isn't enough)

"few short years after one of the most devastating attacks in US history, and with a population now 304 million, is struggling to keep 1.4 million men in arms"

Of course this has nothing to do with an unending war ran by incompetents. It's not that recruiting is falling short, it's that the men and women in the military are leaving in huge numbers. Too much has been asked of them.

Secondly, after the cold war was over the sensible thing to do was reduce defense spending. The Republicans in charge of Congress at the time (who are responsible for giving the military money) agreed. Even with a huge defense budget, what would the military have done to prevent the 9/11 attacks?

Go back and read the post by Pixie about John McCain. I cracked up at her ten reasons but then I realized that they are all true. Nothing is funnier than the truth!

Kick butt tomorrow and vote for anyone but McCain. I think Romney has the best chance. He has widened his lead in California despite the endorsements of Schwarzenegger and Giuliani (and Vicente Fox as Pixie reported). Romney won Maine by a landslide despite some hard campaigning by the two republican Senators there for McCain. Even in Georgia, McCain is slipping despite support from its two republican Senators.

Let's send McCain out to pasture one final time. I'll even buy him a few bails of hay!

I agree with Pixie and Dolly about Mccain. The only way I could ever see McCain in the White House is if someone let him in to wash the cars. Maybe he could even bring a few illegals along to help. Don't forget to check the air in the tires, John.

My decision has now been made. I'm abandoning Huckabee and voting for Romney.

Here's the hard truth that conservatives have to realize:

The reason there is no true conservative candidate is that in the eyes of most Americans the conservative ideology has failed. A true conservative is unelectable.

I understand why conservatives would be dissatisfied with John McCain, but it's hard to see how Mitt Romney represents an improvement.

The choice is between a guy who's usually been pretty conservative but who keeps trying to signal liberals that he's "really" one of them, or a guy who's usually been pretty liberal but is now trying to send signals to ocnservatives that he's "really" one of them.

Too much poor immigration and the resultant demographic changes and erosion of social science variables are the biggest problems facing america. All other problems combined are utterly dwarfed in comparison, and increasingly so the longer out out view things. Therefore, the key measure of how good politicians are for americans is how much of a restrictionist of poor immigrants they are, both legal and illegal. On this most important measure, Romney clearly and completely outclasses Bush, McCain, Clinton, and Obama.

"So it's probably best to give the liberals McCain, Clinton or Obama a shot at dealing with it and let the country see just how incompetent they are. Then conservatives can come in and clean up in 2010 and/or 2012".


Posted by Bubba | February 3, 2008 8:02 PM

You mean clean up the mess that they, the conservatives, created in the first place? That's basically what you are admitting to, whether you realize it or not.

"So it's probably best to give the liberals McCain, Clinton or Obama a shot at dealing with it and let the country see just how incompetent they are. Then conservatives can come in and clean up in 2010 and/or 2012".


Posted by Bubba | February 3, 2008 8:02 PM

You mean clean up the mess that they, the conservatives, created in the first place? That's basically what you are admitting to, whether you realize it or not.

"So it's probably best to give the liberals McCain, Clinton or Obama a shot at dealing with it and let the country see just how incompetent they are. Then conservatives can come in and clean up in 2010 and/or 2012".


Posted by Bubba | February 3, 2008 8:02 PM

You mean clean up the mess that they, the conservatives, created in the first place? That's basically what you are admitting to, whether you realize it or not.

"So it's probably best to give the liberals McCain, Clinton or Obama a shot at dealing with it and let the country see just how incompetent they are. Then conservatives can come in and clean up in 2010 and/or 2012".


Posted by Bubba | February 3, 2008 8:02 PM

You mean clean up the mess that they, the conservatives, created in the first place? That's basically what you are admitting to, whether you realize it or not.

There is one point that I think the pundits and the political junkies are missing about Mitt Romney ... the guy just doesn't come off as all that likeable.

He reminds me of the old story about the dog food company that spent millions and millions on research and development to create the greatest dog food of all time. It was well marketed, made dogs healthy and reasonably price. Yet nobody would buy it.

Why? Dogs didn't like it.

For all you "men" out there who support that big liar McCain, maybe you should forget about your Viagra and try to find something that can grow some testicles instead. You have no balls!!!!! Wimps, all of you!!

Listen to me. I suggest you stand up straight, walk into that booth tomorrow, and vote for Romney. Be a man! Do something good for the US instead of Mexico.

Go MITT!!!!!!

Hawaii Five-O was my favorite TV show. If McGarrett were still around today, he would take one look at McCain and immediately say "Book him, Danno"

I don't think goading people on "being a man" or how Mexicans are ruining the country is all that persuasive an argument.

I'm not for illegal immigration, but realistically Latin American immigrants are a part of what's keeping us from having the kind of demographic implosion Europe has. When the elderly baby-boomers go to nursing homes would you honestly prefer we bet on their being "good American robots" available because having to be in the presence of Mexicans is so intolerable?

Thomas R, can you deny that the hispanic illegitimacy rate is 49.9%, that hispanics are incarcerated at 2.6 times the non-hispanic white rate, and that the mexican incarceration rate goes up 8-fold from the immigrant generation to native born generations? I don't see how anyone that takes a serious look at the socio-economic-status variables can think more hispanic immigration is a good thing. Even *if* (a big if) US racism is responsible for it all, wouldn't it be wise to stop hispanic immigration until we figure out how to fix this?

(cite for the data of mexican crime rates from 1st to native born generations: "Debunking the Myth of Immigrant Criminality" http://www.migrationinformation.org/Feature/display.cfm?id=403)

It's preposterous to think that conservatism is dead. All of the GOP candidates have had to do cartwheels to out-conservative each other. This is fantastic. They're all awesome candidates and we ought to be thrilled to have such strong choices.

That said, it is true that any conservative trying to run for president faces the increasingly glaring problem that we do have some internal inconsistency in the GOP-- as immigration, free trade, and the war have shown. You can make a conservative case on either side of these issues. Immigration and free trade help business and the economy; or they screw the working man. The war is in America's interest since we need stability in the Middle East to protect oil; or we're over-extending our military and becoming an empire when we ought to be focusing on self-sufficiency and our own serious social problems.

So any successful candidate somehow has to be able to appeal to many different parts of the GOP, without angering any one of them to the point of voter apathy. McCain's done a pretty good job of adapting, admitting he has learned some lessons, showing a willingness to shift rightward, and he has extended the olive branch in a subtle yet seemingly genuine way (unlike Romney).

"Even *if* (a big if) US racism is responsible for it all, wouldn't it be wise to stop hispanic immigration until we figure out how to fix this?"

Stop hispanic immigration, not just illegal immigration, outright? Along with being stupid this is also impossible. As far as I know we never managed to stop immigration from Mexico, not even during the 1920s when immigration laws were highly selective on race.

The percentage of legal Mexicans doing useful work in construction, agriculture, hotel industry, etc most likely outweighs the number in prison. In fact even with illegals that's likely true.

John Mccain is nothing but a Ted Kennedy KissÄss, phony republican. Send him out to pasture today!

This chick is for Romney!!

The percentage of legal Mexicans doing useful work in construction, agriculture, hotel industry, etc most likely outweighs the number in prison. In fact even with illegals that's likely true.

You have some strange criteria for success. Having more people working than in prison is a necessary, but not sufficient standard for me (to understate things a bit).

Stop hispanic immigration, not just illegal immigration, outright?

Ok, 100% stopping is impossible, as with most things in reality. But at least 95% of the flow is a result of our choices in legal immigration policies and non-border and interior enforcement policies.

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