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McCain And Immigration

06 Feb 2008 12:31 pm

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As John Judis says, it's his biggest problem with the conservative base; indeed, it may be his only big one. Right-wingers aren't going to sit at home in a McCain-Hillary race because of the Gang of 14 or waterboarding or McCain-Feingold, but some of them might just stay home if they think there isn't a dime's worth of difference between the candidates on immigration. With this in mind, John O'Sullivan argues that he needs to take a pledge to never support anything like the comprehensive reform he backed last year; meanwhile, Peter Robinson suggests that he promise to sign an executive order to build fences along the border the day he takes office.

Knowing McCain, the former seems to me unlikely to happen, while the latter pledge doesn't seem like it would go nearly far enough. So if I were advising his campaign, I'd tell him to wait till he has the nomination sewn up - so he can't be accused of pandering to primary voters - and then roll out, as part of a broader domestic-policy agenda, a "comprehensive" (yes, that word) border security proposal, one that not only boosts spending for fence-building, agent-hiring, and new technologies along the U.S.-Mexico line, but swipes a bunch of Fred Thompson's proposals on beefing up interior enforcement as well. And he should pledge, on his honor, to make the plan a top priority for his first one hundred days in office - for instance, by promising not to sign any spending bill that Congress sends him until they deal with border security in the manner he suggests. This is already effectively his message: He's said that the lesson of last year is that voters want enforcement first. But by putting real meat on the bones of that "enforcement first" promise, he can convince at least some conservatives that he really has learned his lesson - while simultaneously leaving the door open, as he seems determined to do, to supporting some sort of earned-legalization program well down the road.

This is, not coincidentally, roughly my own position on immigration - serious enforcement today, some form of amnesty if and when we manage to reduce the rate of illegal entry. But I happen to think it's a winning political message as well, particularly for a candidate trying to manage the difficult feat of simultaneously staying true to his own reputation for principle, placating the Republican base, and winning a general election.

Photo by Flickr user MarcN used under a Creative Commons license.

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Comments (35)

Right-wingers aren't going to sit at home in a McCain-Hillary race because of the Gang of 14 or waterboarding or McCain-Feingold, but some of them might just stay home if they think there isn't a dime's worth of difference between the candidates on immigration.

This is truly nuts. John McCain has the same position on immigration as George W. Bush! Clearly the proportion of Republican voters who think immigration is the be-all and end-all of national politics is quite small (as Romney's vote totals speak to).

I'm not sure there really are that many voters whose top issue is immigration among states that are in play. Even in the FL GOP primary, only 16% of voters listed it as their top issue, and 25% of them (in a divided field) voted for McCain! Even among voters for whom immigration is the top issue, it's not clear that they would refuse to vote on that basis. Plus McCain's emphasis on these topics could alienate hispanic voters (who basically handed him the nomination in FL where Romney won the white vote, but lost 54-14 among latinos according to the CNN exits).

My own views undoubtedly color my appreciation here, but I think the esteemed, mysterious Richelieu was right when he said
'I've never seen an issue with so much perceived heat, yet such short legs on Election Day.'

right, things are different now. Politics change. Between the previous comprehensive reform attempts and the multiple 500,000 strong pro-legalization marches, anti-illegal immigration sentiment has vaulted to prominence among conservatives.

McCain like Bush is a realist on immigration. He understands the economic need for immigrant labor as well as the imperative need to find a strict legal structure to accommodate Latino immigration.

Politically, the moralistic and short-sighted conservatives who oppose realistic immigration policy will for the most part, after much whining, vote for McCain; many Latinos, hardly enamored of liberal social pieties will, also, vote for him.

Romney has in fact rather lost it on this issue by appealing to the wingnuts in the party on this issue.

right, things are different now. Politics change. Between the previous comprehensive reform attempts and the multiple 500,000 strong pro-legalization marches, anti-illegal immigration sentiment has vaulted to prominence among conservatives.

Fine, but now would be the time to have that impact and they haven't. It seems pretty ridiculous that all these conservatives would sit out an election because of one issue where the two candidates agreed, if the conservatives agreed with one candidate on basically every other issue.

Illegal Aliens and Immigration is NOT the same thing. Immigrant is a legal status granted by a sovereign country. We have to many folks who do not know and are ignorant or outright deceivers, confusing illegal alien workers calling them illegal immigrants with immigrants. Criminals did NOT build America; Citizens and LEGAL immigrants built it. American’s want an end to anarchy! This is NOT a Democrat, Republican, Independent issue. It's an American Issue.

Illegal aliens are criminals, those who hire them are criminals and those who aid-and-abet them are criminals.

Illegal aliens in America have NO rights. We are required by law to arrest and prosecute, deport them. (Title 8 U.S. Code) To report illegal aliens call the DHS National Hotline 1 866 DHS 2ICE. (1-866-347-2523)

No, matter your political party affiliation, and setting aside your thoughts on issues. We all need to remember what it is to be an American Citizen. We need to make sure our elected representatives obey their Oath of Office and keep their Oath of Allegiance. See http://tinyurl.com/2znnvl Know whom you are voting for.

McCain is a tool of big business. He needs big business money to compete in politics. McCain, like George Bush, will allow big business and the cheap labor of illegal immigrants to destroy the lives of middle class and working class Americans.

I support legal immigration, but am staunchly opposed to illegal immigration.

People should not be rewarded for breaking the law.

Hundreds of thousands of foreigners want to emigrate to this country, and many do, but to do so they must go through our nation's immigration process and be vetted, checked and effectively "wait in line."

Illegal immigrants skip the process, flagrantly violating the law and come to the country without authorization.

Amnesty would only reward them for their law-breaking, while effectively telling all the legal immigrants, who have followed the law and gone through the process to secure admittance to this nation, that they're chumps for trying to follow the law and that in America, if you want to get ahead, you should break the law, because we'll give you amnesty for it later.

That is not what America stands for.

Say yes to legal immigration, say no to illegal immigration and amnesty.

Isn't it just as likely that McCain sees his imminent nomination as vindication of his immigration stance and that, given his generally vindictive, aggressive character, he will be even less willing to make any concessions, or even gestures, to restrictionists?

In what sort of country does a war criminal like Senator John McCain who flew napalm-laden A-4’s during the “Rolling Thunder” carpet bombing of North Vietnam ~ a conflict entered into under the same subterfuge as the one used to justify a more recent American aggression and one involving the indiscriminate slaughter of millions of innocent Vietnamese “gooks” who had no WMD nor ties to Al Qaeda nor had ever attacked McCain’s homeland ~ end up as the presumptive nominee of a political party bidding to install him as his country’s next President?

And doesn’t the veneration of such a bigoted scoundrel have as much nobility as the deifying of Aryan aviators of the German Luftwaffe whose Messershmitt and Stuka dive-bombing blitzkrieg against "sub-humans" across Europe delivered their architect, Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring, before a war crimes tribunal at Nuremberg?

Ross, what do you think of Gary Becker's proposed plan? See http://www.becker-posner-blog.com/archives/2008/02/selling_illegal.html

It makes a ton more sense to me than anything being proposed by anyone on either side of the aisle.

I'm not sure what the right plan is for him. This certainly sounds like a good plan for boosting his numbers with self-identified conservatives and amongst the talking head conservatives. But, his appeal, in Florida for instance, was because he wasn't as hardcore as Romney or Huckabee on immigration. And, again, the majority of people who vote for him don't do so because of his policies, but because of his character. So any policy change will have to be a delicate balance.

If McCain did what Ross suggests, then he would reveal himself to independents and wavering Democrats as just another Republican who makes pandering to the radical conservative base his highest priority. That would undercut the only reason those kinds of voters would even consider voting for him.

The Irony of immigration & McCain is that he was being what he truly is.

A loyal republican, supporting his Presidents plan and trying to bring the two sides parties together on a comprehensive package.

I agree with Peter Leavitt that alienating Latinos is bad long term republican strategy. A growing economy needs…well…growth, and we Americans are not producing children for the future.

McCain’s success with Latinos mirrors Bush’s great achievement in winning them to the republican coalition. Even the wingnuts know that we won’t deport 12 million people. Ross’s purposed strategy of convincing the electorate that we will get a handle on the border & internal enforcement while moving toward a citizenship route is the obvious and winning solution.

In the unlikely event McCain signed on to something be probably wouldn't mean it and it would definitely be full of holes.

Here's Exhibit #1 in his current thinking on this issue. One of his staff members used to be a cabinet-level official in the Mexican government. (BTW: Ambinder recently had a chance to ask him about that, but did not).

I am a republican. I will not stay home in November. what i will do is vote for any canidate other than John McCain or Mike Huckabee. If it means voting for Hillary or Obama, oh well. 4 years of that trash in office and maybe the republican party will decide to give us some good canidats in the next election. McCain will not even answer questions that need to be answered, he is a liar and a pos.

You guys are right (sorry, Ross)-- the GOP NEEDS the Hispanic vote (which means, McCain needs to stay virtually silent about building fences). Doesn't anyone remember Dubya speaking in Spanish to Latino voters? Winning among that minority was part of Rove's strategery, and the only thing that has changed is that Hillary's likely to do better among Latinos than Gore and Kerry did.

The GOP and talk radio really need to stifle it. We could very well end up with President Hillary, who could conceivably nominate as many as 6 SCOTUS justices.

I say we need to organize a boycott against Rush and shut him right down. I don't know if this is a personal vendetta he's got with McCain or what, but he's not helping the cause here, and neither is NR, Kathryn Lopez, et al. Anyone who votes for Hillary (or doesn't vote, which is the same thing) cannot possibly claim to care about the sanctity of life. Immigration is just NOT as important as this consideration, and if we have to trade one issue off for the other, as politics so often requires, let's choose the issue that I would hope everyone can see is so much more significant than immigration.

We live in a society where women feel like they can't afford to give birth anymore-- they feel like their economic stability (childcare and so many other associated costs) requires them to murder their unborn babies. We need to put the social supports in place to help them, and we need to overturn Roe v. Wade so that there is no such choice. Forget about rounding up illegals-- we need to stop abortion right NOW.

Rush, Ingraham, NR, et al. are not helping us conservatives with McCain. If McCain does win, why should he care what we think or try to appease us with rightward policy proposals, when everybody's pointing out that conservatives are NOT the ones voting for him?

Will the last Repiglican to leave the party please turn off the light?

I am enjoying this more than a Repiglican enjoys watching an execution or the massive bombing of a city filled with foreigners. Call it the Twilight of the Pigs.

"I am a republican. I will not stay home in November. what i will do is vote for any canidate other than John McCain or Mike Huckabee. If it means voting for Hillary or Obama, oh well. 4 years of that trash in office and maybe the republican party will decide to give us some good canidats in the next election. McCain will not even answer questions that need to be answered, he is a liar and a pos."

They are calling it McCaiin derangment syndrome. It is truley strange. McCain has a 82% conservative rating.

He just as "conservative" as either Bush.

Turn off your talk radio!

Romney has in fact rather lost it on this issue by appealing to the wingnuts in the party on this issue.

I agree. But it is a trait of the "wingnuts" that, even after their ideas have been repeatedly rejected by actual voters, to threaten to withhold their support unless the candidate they didn't support swears fealty to their position. Thus, the folks at NRO presume to dictate to the candidate they despise.

Tonight on NPR a GOP consultant was listing the three things that McCain must do to shore up his support among conservatives. In truth, all he needs to do is pray that Senator Clinton is the Democratic nominee -- that will "fire up the base."

Silly Moe, the most ruthless American bombing of foreigners took place under Truman, who was hardly a Repiglican, nor even a Republican!

Anyone who uses "strategery" is probably too drunk on Koolaid to even be on the internet in the first place. In any case, Rove's "outreach" to Hispanics included appearing at an NCLR conference. The NCLR's name is literally racist, they fund extremists, and they gave this guy their "Chicano Hero Award":

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jose_Angel_Gutierrez

Scroll down to the Criticisms section to read some of quotes, which were made *before* he was given the award.

As for Roberto's "thoughts", there's a huge difference between immigration as an issue in itself, and immigration as presented to the vast majority of Americans by the MSM.

If the MSM would stop lying, the vast majority of Americans would realize how much trouble we're in.

This is truly nuts. John McCain has the same position on immigration as George W. Bush! Clearly the proportion of Republican voters who think immigration is the be-all and end-all of national politics is quite small (as Romney's vote totals speak to).
Posted by right

I guess you were in a coma last spring. That was when Senators were complaining that the anti-Amnesty calls and letters had to stop, they were stressing staff out and there were too many to read and respond to.

Yes McCain has the same position as Teddy Kennedy and Presidente` Jorje Arbusto. None are loved by conservatives. IMO, Bush is the biggest POS to be President since Harding. Carter can go safe to his grave knowing he was a fuck-up, but he was not as bad as Arbusto, because he didn't destroy his own Party in the process.

That Romney got less votes says more about Romney than his rivals. He had all the promise of being a great Republican candidate - then he got diverted from his competencies and tried running on values and never did serious campaigning to show he had a great national security team and military advisors and would effectively manage the military and conflict as other great "non-combat, non-war hero" Presidents like FDR and Reagan did. He and Huckabee left the Commander in CHief role unchallenged - and handed to to McCain, who I judge as an ex-military officer would be the worse CiC because he manages like Bush as a "my way or the highway" "on my gut, I decide better than experts do" fighter jock...

McCain like Bush is a realist on immigration. He understands the economic need for immigrant labor as well as the imperative need to find a strict legal structure to accommodate Latino immigration.

Amazing how, crippled by the lack of millions of illegals pouring in, or any significant legal immigration - the prosperous economies of countries like Germany, Ireland, Singapore, Japan, Australia, Chile, Poland even survive another day...hobbling along with higher productivity and mechanization and robots doing menial tasks.
And without 40-50% of their inner city youth jobless and displaced by illegals.

And when did rewarding lawbreakers become an "imperative need"?

And this is not so much about getting the cheapest possible maid, mason, and sweatshop illegal for a wealthy person of the American Ruling Elites eager to privatize the profit and savings of employing a retinue of illegals serving his household and his businesses - while socializing all the immigrant costs on the overall population getting no comparable economic boost from the illegals. Or even the mass layoff of unskilled young black workers from "step-up" jobs which has caused exploding pathologies in the black communities of 40% or more of young blacks idle and told they are unemployable compared to the "better" illegal worker...

No, it is really about the future and if America remains America or becomes a hybrid culture and a divided nation. 66% of schoolkids in California are now legal or illegal Hispanic origin kids...

These immigration/illegal alien "fundamentalists" in the GOP would be hilarious if they weren't so fundamentally clueless. Maybe they should stop a second stocking up on Chinese-made goods at the local Walmart are realize that illegal aliens wouldn't come here if REAL Americans weren't hiring them. If they want to go after someone maybe they should look at the "demand side," all those stalwart growers and builders (probably good Republicans all) using cheap and exploited Latino labor. Let's really criminalize using "illegal" labor and throw all of those employers in the slammer and see if that works. May need the cheap workers to build the white-collar prisoners for all these guys.

But the great GOP death wish of royally pissing off future generations of Latino voters - an excellent example of closing the barn door after the horse (doubtless an illegal Spanish Mustang) has bolted - does have its amusing dimensions. Poor McCain, who is so crazy and spooky when it comes to threatening eternal wars, tries to find some sort of reasonable solution on immigration, doesn't like people being tortured, and is pilloried by the Repuglican stallwarts as a heretic to the "true faith."

Ridiculous! Regardless of how much conservatives and independents fear another Clinton administration, better to spend 4 years limiting the damage Hilary will do, than suffer the self inflicted wounds of a McCain administration! Only an idiot would suggest that conservatives or independents "will fall in line" if McCain wins the primary. Plain and simple, McCain winning the primary will assure Democrats win the White House. Conservatives are tired of being taken for granted, something the RNC and GOP leaders are not aware of, or have simply ignored. 8 contenders, early primaries, and the RNC's ambivalence to the will of the people are responsible for McCain's lead, certainly the majority of Republicans wish they had another choice. The best candidates dropped out for lack of funds and media exposure. "It'll be a cold day in hell before I'll vote for McCain". Perhaps if bloggers and forum respondents simply add this simple statement to their comments, we might actually get a clear picture of how little "rank and file" support there is for a McCain Presidency. Personally, I plan on attaching this statement to all future comments and to all my e-mails. A McCain Presidency would be no different than that of either Democrat, they are all tools of the liberal elitists!

"But the great GOP death wish of royally pissing off future generations of Latino voters - an excellent example of closing the barn door after the horse (doubtless an illegal Spanish Mustang) has bolted - does have its amusing dimensions."

There is still wide latitude in the possible future size of the US latino population. The 25% figure for 2050 assumes current immigration laws stay the same. The past amnesty bills ratcheted up immigration by a large extent, making that 2050 latin percentage even larger. There is gigantic difference between a 50% hispanic country and a 25% hispanic country. You are just conflating it all together.

MD writes: "Silly Moe, the most ruthless American bombing of foreigners took place under Truman, who was hardly a Repiglican, nor even a Republican!"

Sure, at the end of a real war that had cost close to half a million American lives. I don't justify Hiroshima or Nagasaki and I think less brutal alternative "demonstrations" would have worked as well.

Today's Repiglicans have that example to look back on, as well as the horrific Vietnam one, but they don't give a shit. I don't think you do, either. Then there's the assholish glee factor of naming a bombing campaign "Shock and Awe" and putting it on TV - but I guess Repiglicans don't know how callous they appear to actual human beings.

I think immigration is under-rated as an issue that offers an opportunity to candidates of either party who get it right. None of the candidates have done so yet, which is why it seems to have had little impact on the voting so far.

On "amnesty": it's inaccurate to describe McCain's, or most anyone else's current position on a path to citizenship as such. They all involve some kind of penalty, and prevent lawbreakers from gaining an advantage, which doesn't fit any reasonable definition of amnesty-- getting off scot free. That's what Ronald Reagan approved.

Powell, Ronald Reagan and many other people called the 1986 legalization "amnesty". And it had fee's, requirements, and wasn't instant citizenship either.

An Amnesty by Any Other Name ...
excerpt:"The difference is that President Reagan called this what it was: amnesty. Indeed, look up the term "amnesty" in Black's Law Dictionary, and you'll find it says, "the 1986 Immigration Reform and Control Act provided amnesty for undocumented aliens already in the country.""
By Edwin Meese III,
New York Times Op-Ed
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/24/opinion/24meese.html

The main reason proponents don't call it amnesty anymore (including McCain who explicitly advocated "amnesty" as late as 2003) is that the word doesn't poll well.

No one who has to pay a fine is getting "amnesty", whether it's for crossing the border illegally, speeding, or any other law violation.

If the word doesn't poll well, changing it is a perfectly logical move. It's probably easier than getting people to use a dictionary.

So for any crime, no matter how serious, it isn't amnesty as long as you pay a fine, however small that fine is?

goober, "amnesty" means "free pass", like, "no penalty". A fine is a penalty which goes with a conviction or a guilty plea, which is in and of itself something of a penalty. We can discuss endlessly, and I'm sure people will, what the amount of the fine should be--Scooter Libby-like, or maybe just what you'd pay for going 85 in a 55 zone while drunk. But whatever the likely conclusion of that discussion, it won't be amnesty.

If Reagan's 1986 bill was "amnesty" as everyone, including President Reagan, seemed to agree, then the plan in the McCain-Kennedy bill, which is essentially the same, should also be called amnesty.

I just checked my Black's, and Attorney General Meese is correct, the '86 bill is used as an example of amnesty.

If we must quibble, I think "paid amnesty" is probably a more descriptive term. One pays a sum and the offense and its far harsher punishment (deportation) are forgotten.

anon4rp you are clueless of what is going on with imigration. I use to live in Hazleton, Pennsylvania, but me and my brother, sister, and mother left because the house value went so low after the ignorant mayor (Lou Barletta) called imigration into the city. These imigrants without even wanting to help were helping the house value rise and economy in Hazleton but now check the prices please? they have severly gone down. Also, most of the jobs these imigrants do are not wanted by U.s citizens because they are too exhausting to doo. One american farmer cannot remove all the watermelons from his feild alone and since nobody else wanted to help him imigrants came to accomplish them. It also makes me sad that African americans are getting invovled in this when after slavery was over and they were getting salries for there farm services most were already packing up there stuff to come to the promise land. wait in line you said i say why should they die waiting in that long and depressing line when they already have family and freinds coming to join the U.S army? I do believe in overcrowding but we should help those who havent commited a crime who are already here, achieve the American dream!

anon4rp you are clueless of what is going on with imigration. I use to live in Hazleton, Pennsylvania, but me and my brother, sister, and mother left because the house value went so low after the ignorant mayor (Lou Barletta) called imigration into the city. These imigrants without even wanting to help were helping the house value rise and economy in Hazleton but now check the prices please? they have severly gone down. Also, most of the jobs these imigrants do are not wanted by U.s citizens because they are too exhausting to doo. One american farmer cannot remove all the watermelons from his feild alone and since nobody else wanted to help him imigrants came to accomplish them. It also makes me sad that African americans are getting invovled in this when after slavery was over and they were getting salries for there farm services most were already packing up there stuff to come to the promise land. wait in line you said i say why should they die waiting in that long and depressing line when they already have family and freinds coming to join the U.S army? I do believe in overcrowding but we should help those who havent commited a crime who are already here, achieve the American dream!

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