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The Mitt and Mike Show

08 Feb 2008 10:57 am

In the wake of Super Tuesday, Ramesh made some good points about the Huckabee-Romney dynamic:

There has been a bit of a debate about whether Huckabee has been "taking votes away" from Romney. Yesterday, I posted a few links suggesting that this is not the case. Huckabee's voters told exit pollsters that they fairly strongly preferred McCain to Romney. I think that's right. But I think it's also true that Huckabee did more than anyone else to take out Romney. After Huckabee beat Romney in Iowa—something nobody else in the field could have done—almost everything else had to go Romney's way for him to win. The odds were against that happening, particularly given Romney's own weaknesses as a candidate ...

Try to picture the race if Huckabee hadn't taken off. Romney would have won Iowa and probably Michigan. There would have been no bitter Huckabee-Romney feud, so his voters might not have preferred McCain over Romney as strongly as they did yesterday. Romney might have done better in the south and might have emerged as the conservative alternative in the primary. Maybe he could even have competed in South Carolina. We'll never know.

If Romney had not been in the race, however, I'm not sure Huckabee would have done much better, given his inability to reach beyond evangelicals. Even in some of the Southern states Huckabee won last night, he might have lost a two-man race to McCain.

I would only add this, though - that once Huckabee did take off, the conservative hatefest that his candidacy summoned up almost certainly hurt Romney's chances, rather than McCain's. Joshua Trevino makes this point in the context of the current landscape, in which Huckabee is the only possible rallying point for anti-McCain sentiment:

... the decision of the Romney campaign and the conservative media establishment to go nuclear against Huckabee in late December and early January redounds to McCain’s benefit. Having demonized Huckabee as a wholesale traitor to conservatism and decency — remember George Will comparing him to anti-Semites? — it is now tremendously difficult to sell the opposite line. From conservatism’s death knell to the conservatives’ last chance is a long road. The pity for Mitt Romney is that had his surrogates not done this, he would have stood an outstanding chance in a brokered convention forced by a Huckabee surge. Conclaves of party activists and caucuses are the two arenas in which he won handily again and again: were he in play at a national convention, there is no reason his superior political operation would not have triumphed.

I don't think the dynamic Trevino is discussing redounds to McCain's benefit now - even had they responded less vituperatively to his initial success, I can't imagine the movement establishment ever rallying around Huckabee - so much as it redounded to his benefit in the weeks between Iowa and Florida. Particularly given the ample evidence that many voters, in the South especially, were torn between Huck and McCain, it seems clear that a stronger Huckabee candidacy would have meant a weaker McCain candidacy, and a better chance for Mitt. Thus the conservative movement's scorched-earth attacks on Huck probably cost him South Carolina, which in turn helped cost Romney Florida, which in turn probably doomed him on Super Tuesday. Whereas had Huck taken a little less fire from the Right, we might still have a real three-way race on our hands, one that Romney could have plausibly won - either at the convention or before.

But instead, poor Ann Coulter is stuck rooting for Hillary.

Comments (23)

the conservative hatefest that his candidacy summoned up

I'd say "attracted". Conservatives (by which I mean the Red State/Limbaugh/Dobson axis, not people living in the real world) are always in mid-hatefest.

"Poor Ann Coulter" is only "rooting for Hillary" so she can crank out annual bile-brimming bitch-books for the next 4-8 years. With Coulter it's party before country, always, but it's also always pocket before party.

She's the essence of Repiglicanism.

Ross,
I could not agree with you more. I’m a Huckabee supporter who is totally frustrated with the marginalization by debate sponsors and the drive by media’s Neanderthal portrail of a good man because of his religious beliefs. Fred Thompson, Rush and Hannity’s endless attacks on Huckabee cost him South Carolina which intern spurred the establishment Republicans to gravitate towards McCain. Though Huckabee is my first choice, Romney would have been someone I could vote for. Now, unless David can beat Goliath, it looks like were once again stuck voting against someone instead of for someone. Now it looks like arch conservatives may have to lay in the bed they made for all of us.

Huckabee doomed the GOP by not bowing out after Florida and loosing in S. Carolina. Huck's greed for power, his stubbornness, and his disdain for Romney fueled is illogical campaign, which will certainly doom the nation for years to come.

Huck is an unpolished politician that has little true patriotism. Meanwhile, I believe Romney is an unpolished statesman that will save the nation (2012) from the liberal minded government that will come upon us in November.

Thank you Huck Mikeabee for killing conservative principles (and unborn children because certainly supreme court justices will be nominated in the next four years).

ChubbieTim writes: "I believe Romney is an unpolished statesman that will save the nation (2012) from the liberal minded government that will come upon us in November."

Yeah, because we were in such tough shape after the last "liberal minded government" left office.

This country has been dragged into the shitter in oh so many ways by the Bushpigs that I can't count them all. January 20, 2009 will be a day of tremendous relief.

Bush won't be as bad (he's still is bad don't get me wrong) when he's compared with Obama.

The free enterprise system works and the more you ask government to do the exponential less of it you'll get (think multiplier principle from micro econ). Obama needs to visit the Kennedy mantra of "ask not what your country can do...", because in his mind, the Fed should do everything, which will tank the nation in the spirit of Jimmy Carter.

...Bush has been a fiscal liberal and a social conservative; what the nation needs is a fiscal conservative and a moderate social conservative.

That was Mittski.

I'm guessing you weren't predicting Bush would suck when you voted for him in 2000, Clubbie, so I'll ignore your prediction about Obama. What the nation needs is a fiscal moderate and a social libertarian, and that describes Obama a whole lot more than it describes just about any living Republican. Mostly we need someone who isn't a delusional warmongering fool - that's been the lesson of the Bushpig Era.

I agree that it was in fact the Huckabee campaign that doomed Romney, as it turns out, but I still don't think that means that without Huck's rise, Romney would have won the nomination. Because before he doomed Romney, he sucked the air out of Fred Thompson, who might well have come in second to Romney in Iowa, then done better in New Hampshire (he couldn't have done worse ...), and then had a legitimate shot in South Carolina in a three-way race with Romney and McCain. If Thompson had won South Carolina, Romney would have been just as doomed.

To win the nomination, Romney probably had to run the table (maybe dropping New Hampshire) out of the chute and kill the campaigns of Huckabee and Thompson to get into a two person race with the survivor of McCain and Giuliani before Super Tuesday.

When it comes down to it, I think the main reason Romney didn't have a great shot is that the rules of the game were switched to give a moderate a huge advantage by Giuliani's cherry picking of states to winner take all primaries. That and he changed his mind on every issue critical to success in a Republican primary.

You know I was fine with Huck BEFORE he started saying derogatory and half truths about the LSD Faith. He lost the respect of an enormous amount of voters both LDS and non LDS voters.
I know the real Mitt Romney - Patriotic, Educated, Intelligent, Articulate, Principled, Diplomatic, Hard Working, Savvy, Polished, Honorable, Faithful, Successful, Conservative, Family Man, Informed, Energetic, Fair, Capable, Talented, Open Minded, Experienced, Strong, Courageous, Charitable, Selfless, Respected … For every one of these attributes there is a true life story of the real Mitt Romney. I wish everyone could know the real Mitt Romney. Our country could only be well served by this man.

You know I was fine with Huck BEFORE he started saying derogatory and half truths about the LSD Faith. He lost the respect of an enormous amount of voters both LDS and non LDS voters.
I know the real Mitt Romney - Patriotic, Educated, Intelligent, Articulate, Principled, Diplomatic, Hard Working, Savvy, Polished, Honorable, Faithful, Successful, Conservative, Family Man, Informed, Energetic, Fair, Capable, Talented, Open Minded, Experienced, Strong, Courageous, Charitable, Selfless, Respected … For every one of these attributes there is a true life story of the real Mitt Romney. I wish everyone could know the real Mitt Romney. Our country could only be well served by this man.

You know I was fine with Huck BEFORE he started saying derogatory and half truths about the LSD Faith. He lost the respect of an enormous amount of voters both LDS and non LDS voters.
I know the real Mitt Romney - Patriotic, Educated, Intelligent, Articulate, Principled, Diplomatic, Hard Working, Savvy, Polished, Honorable, Faithful, Successful, Conservative, Family Man, Informed, Energetic, Fair, Capable, Talented, Open Minded, Experienced, Strong, Courageous, Charitable, Selfless, Respected … For every one of these attributes there is a true life story of the real Mitt Romney. I wish everyone could know the real Mitt Romney. Our country could only be well served by this man.

You know I was fine with Huck BEFORE he started saying derogatory and half truths about the LSD Faith. He lost the respect of an enormous amount of voters both LDS and non LDS voters.
I know the real Mitt Romney - Patriotic, Educated, Intelligent, Articulate, Principled, Diplomatic, Hard Working, Savvy, Polished, Honorable, Faithful, Successful, Conservative, Family Man, Informed, Energetic, Fair, Capable, Talented, Open Minded, Experienced, Strong, Courageous, Charitable, Selfless, Respected … For every one of these attributes there is a true life story of the real Mitt Romney. I wish everyone could know the real Mitt Romney. Our country could only be well served by this man.

ClubbieTim writes:Huckabee doomed the GOP by not bowing out after Florida and loosing in S. Carolina. Huck's greed for power, his stubbornness, and his disdain for Romney fueled is illogical campaign, which will certainly doom the nation for years to come.

Real conservatives (Pro-Life, Pro Marriage Ammendment, Pro 2nd Ammendment) believe that MItt doomed the GOP by not bowing out after South Carolina. Mitt clearly could not win in the South and did nothing but muddy the waters on Super Tuesday with his Don Quixote campaign. He spent $50 million to end up with the same market share as someone who spent $5 million. And he's supposed to be a great business mind?

Thanks Mitt for dooming the Republican Party!

I can cut through all the smoke and mirrors with one sentence. This alone explains the failure of the Romney Campaign:

"If Mitt Romney was a Southern Baptist, he would now be the Nominee of the Republican Party."

That's it. Having been raised Southern Baptist, I know for a fact how most feel about Mormonism - it is a cult. Most of us who are open-minded can get beyond that and support Romney, but those in the more rural areas with less education (Huckabee's base) simply cannot.

The fact that Romney is a Mormon split the base for him and provided too much of a headwind.

Gail posts and posts and posts: "I know the real Mitt Romney - Patriotic, Educated, Intelligent, Articulate, Principled, Diplomatic, Hard Working, Savvy, Polished, Honorable, Faithful, Successful, Conservative, Family Man, Informed, Energetic, Fair, Capable, Talented, Open Minded, Experienced, Strong, Courageous, Charitable, Selfless, Respected …"

And He Really Really Likes Capital Letters!

Plus He Can't Stand Driving With A Dog In The Car, And That's Why The Roof Rack Was Invented!

The problem is that even after Romney spent probably close to $100 mill campaigning for Prez since the second half of his gubernatorial term, Gail is the ONLY one who knows the real Mitt... It wasn't Huck, nor even Mormonism that did him in, but his overly disciplined, overly managed PR image and attempt to re-make himself after every primary. If he'd been more relaxed, open and honest, and run as the moderate that he truly is, instead of sounding manufactured and contrived at every turn, he might have at least lasted until the convention.

MD writes: "If he'd been more relaxed, open and honest, and run as the moderate that he truly is, instead of sounding manufactured and contrived at every turn, he might have at least lasted until the convention."

Why isn't it possible that we have seen the real Mitt and he's every bit the empty ambition-driven suit we concluded he was?

I think that's far more likely than the alternatives. He let his ambition turn him into a robot long ago and it's too late to reverse the process. It's like the Vonnegut line from "Mother Night" - "We must be careful about what we pretend to be, because one day we wake up and find out that's what we have become." (From memory, forgive any inaccuracy.)

You all are overlooking a major part in this. Thompson. If Thompson never had jumped in, Huckabee would have clobbered everyone in South Carolina. Thanks to Thompson, Huck stalled a bit and McCain had a big win in SC, which he used to slingshot to Florida and Super Tuesday.

When it`s all said and done, thank conservative Fred Thompson supporters for creating John McCain.

An intriguing post, but I think profbacon is right on the money. My own reflections are similar.

It's really sad that many Baptists don't do their homework on other religions and assume that because their preachers tell them that a particular religion is a "cult", then it must be true. I believe that this is the reason Mitt didn't get more of the evangelical vote. Maybe now, when it's obvious that Mitt was the true Reagan conservative for the GOP, maybe people will smarten up and find out why the LDS church is the fastest growing CHRISTIAN religion in the world. Dr. Dobson showed his cowardice by waiting until Mitt was out of the race. He feared the loss of his flock more than following his conscience.

Let's note four things.

1. The firestorm against Huckabee began with John Fund' WSJ attack on Huckabee's record in Arkansas. For all the talk of Rush and the rest, all these guys were simply following Fund's lead. And of course, the effort of the WSJ from the beginning has been to put McCain in the White House, mostly because they like his stand on immigration.

2. Huckabee deserved everything he got for implying that folks should not vote for Romney because Romney was the equivalent of a devil worshiper.

3. Huckabee's real weakness was with the neo-cons and the Iraq & Iran war supporters. In this regard, Huckabee didn't help himself with his Foreign Affairs article. The issue then wasn't so much that Huckabee wasn't a "conservative", it was that Huckabee wasn't a neo-con or a strong supporter of U.S. military involvement in the Middle East. Lot of real conservatives aren't. So in point of fact, Rush and many of the folks who influence him most went after Huckabee hardest on foreign policy, no on conservative grounds, but on neo-con grounds and "support Bush and his war" grounds.

4. Lots of the strong talk against Huckabee was cover for the fact that people like Rush simply didn't think Huckabee had a chance of winning either the Presidency or the Republican nomination. They may have been wrong, but all the could see was Huckabee blocking other conservatives in a spoilers effort.

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