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Mr. Webb Goes To Washington

13 Apr 2008 08:27 pm

Jim Antle has an interesting piece on the disappointment many paleocons and other anti-Bush conservatives feel over Jim Webb's voting record in the Senate. They were hoping for a Pat Buchanan in Democratic clothing; what they ended up with, so far at least, is a reliably party-line liberal. I think Antle takes the piece in the right directions, raising the parallel to Daniel Patrick Moynihan's career, as well as the plausible possibility that paleocons were deceived from the beginning, and that "Webb's cultural conservatism never had any policy or ideological content, but was simply a manifestation of his personal loyalties and affections." But while considering Webb's fate and future, it's also worth noting just how hard it's become for any Senator or Representative to play a truly independent role these days, now that the parties have sorted ideologically and the whole legislative system has begun to function more like a parliamentary system than the Congress of mid-century. This change is, to my mind, one of the strongest case for third (or fourth, or fifth) parties going - not that they'd be good for Presidential politics, but that they'd bring some much-needed diversity to Congress. I tend to agree with Matt's argument that there are real advantages to a more polarized political system, with the biggest one being that voters know what they're getting when they pull the lever for a party. But polarization and parliamentarization makes it awfully hard for constituencies that find themselves at odds with both party lines to find effective representation. If Webb were one of seven Senators in a "Populist Party," say, which aligned sometimes with the GOP and sometimes with the Democrats, it would be an awful lot easier for him to make a distinctive contribution to the Senate than it is when you're one of the fifty-five Democratic Senators being herded around by Harry Reid.

Meanwhile, the disappointment paleos feel over Webb doesn't change the fact that the case for making him Barack Obama's running mate seems to grow stronger with every new controversy the Democratic frontrunner stumbles into.

Comments (32)

At this point, I think it'd be a mistake for Obama to pick anyone other than Webb. I don't see anyone else who could help with Obama's weaknesses except possibly Ed Rendell. Hopefully, Obama will learn from Webb that people in "flyover country" don't fit his simplistic view of them.

I really don't see a third party coming into being. As much as we think americans will flock to it I think they have enough digesting two parties and often that is all they want to deal with.

At least as to the conservative side of the spectrum , I have heard the thrid party mantra for some time. You know "I am not Republican but a a True conservative". Problems is by the time these people purge out their version of the non true "conservatives" you can fit the party in a phone booth.

COuld it happen? Perhaps. But in the end I think the COuntry is pretty Center Right and they like the current system just fine.

Where was the evidence that he was going to be Pat Buchanan with a (D) next to his name? He was pretty forthrightly economically populist during the campaign, and not in a "tax cuts and deregulation" kind of way.

I assume that if Republicans were forcing a bunch of votes on affirmative action or gun control or whatnot, he might end up looking somewhat more independent. And he did vote against many of the immigration bills.

DW-NOMINATE says Webb is the tenth most conservative Democrat, near people like Kent Conrade, Blanche Lincoln, and Jay Rockefeller. Among incoming freshmen, only Jon Tester is more conservative.

That, to me, is the real dissapointment. I was under the impression that by electing Tester and not Morrison, Democrats would get a real gift, somebody more liberal than you might otherwise think the state's electorate would tolerate, thanks to the fact that he gets credit for conviction (similar to Paul Wellstone or Russ Feingold, who by all rights should never be elected in their purplish states). But he's basically voted with Max Baucus, who's a total sellout.

I honestly don't see how Obama could nominate Webb for vice president without reinforcing McCain's inevitable campaign theme of service and seniority. If Obama nominates an older war hero like Webb he would just unfavorably heighten the contrast between him and McCain (and look more like an elitist dilettante).

Doesn't Senator Obama(if he is the nominee) really need a non Senator? Why is not Governor Kane from VA so much more attractive on many levels

Kaine is nowhere near as popular as his predecessor, Mark Warner. Kaine is more liberal than Warner and has had setbacks on his watch such as transportation funding (abusive driver fees, regional authorities' taxing ruled unconstitutional), the Dulles Metrorail debacle, and now controversy over the death penalty moratorium. If Mark Warner were not running for Senate, he'd be a solid choice for Obama's VP. However, I've long thought the ideal combination of the Virginia Democrats would be to have Mark Warner's relative moderation combined with Tim Kaine's comfort in his own skin.

VA Democrats seem to be doing just fine without following your advice, VaGuy. Perhaps you should offer your extremely cogent counsel to the morons who continue to insist that a racist idiot like George Allen was actually a decent human being.

Atta boy MoeLarryAndJesus. You truly know how to win friends and influence people.

I kinda think it's high time someone did not pick a VP based on transparent political calculation, otherwise known as fear. "Webb will 'balance out' my inexperience, lack of war-heroness and perceived elitism! Oooh. It's foolproof. Folks will eat it up." Not to mention Webb's a loose cannon. There certainly are worse choices, but if possible Obama should pick someone who reinforces his own persona and message, rather than someone who provides "compelling contrast."

I got nothing, though.

Virginia Democrats are doing just fine, I agree. The way things stand now, though, I don't see Kaine holding statewide office again much less being a serious contender for President or Vice President.

One other person who'd be a very solid pick for Obama, who is a little under the radar as evidenced by my not remembering him, would be Tennessee Governor Phil Bredesen. He won reelection with nearly 70% of the vote in an increasingly red state. He cleaned up a financial crisis left behind by his Republican predecessor without raising taxes. He has a professional background in health care and has focused on the issue as governor.

C'mon, Ross, don't pass along this nonsense about how "the parties have sorted ideologically." Movement conservatives have purged everyone they can from the Republican Party. Nothing at all similar has happened in the Democratic Party. What the "sorting" you're talking about looks like is this: ideologically acceptable conservatives on one side, everyone else on the other.

Asgh,

Oh, I don't know. The Democrats have a fair variety of opinions on economics and foreign policy, but they don't tolerate much heterodoxy when it comes to social issues like abortion. It is true that there are many Democratic Congressmen who are pro-life, -including ironically people like Stephen Lynch (MA) and James Langevin (RI) who represent very liberal states. However, neither Lynch nor Langevin nor anyone like them is going to be allowed to run for president. Hell, Harry Reid had to agree to suppress his pro-life opinions to get the House Majority Leader spot. The Democratic Party used to actually be more pro-life than the Republicans, if you can believe that. What have we come to?

"He has a professional background in health care and has focused on the issue as governor."

By scrapping his state's experiment in universal health care because it turned out to be unaffordable?

Third party? Ross, you should know better. It would take one of the other parties dissolving a-la Federalists or Whigs to make a viable 3rd party in America. We do have, electorally speaking, a 2 party system.

Maybe this will teach paleos not to jump on a pro-abortion bandwagon.

The prize for clever pseudonyn goes to "Achilles" (although I'm pretty sure Hector is his real name).

James,

Are you talking about me?

Achilles is someone else. And "Hector" is very definitely not my real name- not even the same ethnicity.

And "Hector" is very definitely not my real name- not even the same ethnicity.

You're not really a Trojan?

Correction, I should have said 'not even the same language'. I'm not a native Hispanophone.

No, I meant that Achilles had adopted his pseudonym on purpose to poke fun at you, and it was kind of funny, but less funny because I though Hector was your real name. (Didn't you use to sign your posts with a last name, or was that a different Hector?) I can see how my sloppy use of pronouns caused confusion. Anyway, I will take your word for it that Hector is also a pseudonym.

If Mark Warner were not running for Senate, he'd be a solid choice for Obama's VP.

I came to the conclusion some time ago that Warner would be an absolutely ideal running mate for Obama. Their strengths and weaknesses complement each other perfectly. I wonder if anybody has any insight into the political and (Virgina) constitutional aspects of Warner's being Obama's running mate. IIRC Lieberman ran for both VP and the Senate in 2000. Anybody know if this is feasible in 2008 for Mark Warner?

I'm not sure of the Virginia constitutional aspects, but only an incumbent could pull off running for two seats at once by saying they want their present seat to fall back on. With a non-incumbent like Warner, the voters and opponent would legitimately ask which job Warner really wants. And, if Warner got elected to both offices, then a person who didn't even run gets appointed to the seat and/or there's an expensive special election. There's no way a non-incumbent could campaign effectively for both offices.

I think Warner would prefer to be VP or a Cabinet official, but he was persuaded to run for Senate out of party loyalty. And, he can live at his home in Alexandria which I'm sure his wife, who's never been too thrilled about his political career, finds appealing.

If you look at states like California, the U.S. will not even be a two party state for very long. With black and Hispanic populations growing faster than whites and with the increase in public sector employment, the Republican party will not be relevant for much longer.

Instead of thinking about three or more parties, pudnits should be thinking about how the U.S. will function as a one party state where the Democratic Primary will be the only relevant election.

sen. Webb is the most thin-skinned man I've ever met. He is uncomfortable in his own skin to an amazing degree, and doesn't like the "middle class" any better than Obama and Clinton do.

Mr. James Kabala,

Yeah I did used to use a 'last name'. That was a pseudonym also that i've written under before. I suppose I could use my real name but it seems kind of unwise. One of my best friends is pretty radical in politics and has gotten death threats for his writings before (from a US soldier, no less).

Speaking of names, there was a Mr. Kabala in Cabot House around the time I was there. I don't think I knew him personally though but we had mutual friends. Is he any relation of yours?

I've encountered that guy's name on the Internet before, but he is no relation.

WHO is behind the Barack Obama for President
"moo-vement"?

.................. GE ......................

and a gaggle of other corporate elitists.

Are a lot of working class Americans Bitter?

Well, they SHOULD be: Another GE candidate for President SOLD to the public by the Corporate-Controlled "Mainstream MEDIA ... Ronald Reagan ... began the MASSIVE Robbery of the American people that has continued to this day.

About every day,& sometimes several times a day, the TV Talking heads say: "The Rich are getting richer and everybody else is getting poorer"

... & You'd Think ... after nearly 30 years they would FINALLY ASK: ( & Answer) WHY?

The answer is simple: Reagan cut the top tax rate down from the 70%'s to the low 30%'s.

(If you made $100 million & your tax rate was 70% you would pay $70 million to Uncle Sam & keep $30 million ... earning interest, or dividends THE NEXT YEAR on that $30 million. If, instead, you paid $30 million in taxes and KEPT $70 million --- You'd make a lot MORE money the next year on that $70 million - in interest, or dividends)

Simple, tax the rich a lot less AND they damn sure WILL get a whole lot richer a whole lot faster.

There was 2 PARTS to Reaganomics tho. The second part was: The Two-Tier Wage Structure"

i.e. Pay the Top level "executives" a Whole LOT MORE; Pay everybody else a Whole LOT LESS. (Newspapers & TV in the early 80's had articles & coverage of the "Two-Tier Wage Structure" that CORPORATE America trotted out IN CONCERT with Reagan's election & tax cuts.)

IF its CORPORATE POLICY to PAY Everybody else a WHOLE LOT LESS ... everybody else is going to get ... a whole lot poorer ... huh.

a. It was deliberate. b. Its been going on for nearly 30 years.

Next Question: Is Obama likely to fix it?

Answer: Hell No. Because THE SAME PEOPLE are running him for President - The SAME WAY they got Reagan/ Bush1 / Bush2 elected: MEDIA PROPAGANDA.

GE owns MSNBC & NBC. AOL Time Warner owns CNN. Westinghouse owns CBS.
(GE is the 2nd largest corporation on the planet).

They have interlocking directorships. THEY ARE the Corporate-Controllers of the Corporate-Controlled Media.

MSNBC/NBC have become the CHIEF propaganda mouthpiece of the Obama Pushers ... (BOPN - Barack Obama Propagands Networks) - just like FOX has been the the Bush Propaganda Network all these years.

There are no more Journalists, no more NEWS People. They have all become court jesters and clowns doing their bit to please their corporate masters ..Top Level PAID A WHOLE LOT MORE -----------Media whores.

Here's a glimpse of one of the $Billions of Dollar TAXPAYER RIPOFF Reasons GE wants to "elect" Obama President: GE & Westinghouse are in the business of building nuclear power plants.

The Cheney Energy Bill passed in 2005 - made it possible for the nuclear industry to begin planning to build 29 new nuclear power plants (licensing hearings are already scheduled for the first few of them).

No new nuke plants were built for 30 years because the banks wouldn't loan the money - too risky. The Cheney Energy Bill solved that problem for them by Guaranteeing TAXPAYER PAYBACK of any of the nuke building loans that default (The Congressional Budget Office rated the risk of default at 50% or greater".

Obama voted FOR the Cheney Energy Bill. Clinton voted against. Clinton says her Energy plan does not include nuclear & if they want to be considered in the future they will have to FIRST Make it Cheaper and find a safe way to dispose of the nuke waste.

McCain, this week on the Campaign trail said ... we just have to face it we need to start building new, "CLEAN", nuclear power plants.

i.e. The Corporate Elitists are running OBAMA AND McCain for President.

("Getting off coal to go to nuclear is like giving up cigarettes to take up smoking crack".)

Obama / Webb would be a good ticket. However, I see advantages to picking Bloomberg as well.

yeah, let's put up a ticket with a combined total of 6 years in the senate as their experience. And, let's make one an arrogant elitist and the other an arrogant dickhead.

That's the ticket for a 40 state loss.

I'd say Richardson if he didn't prove how gaffe-prone he was during his own campaign for President. (He has strong foreign policy experience, and I would think he'd help with the Latino vote.)

So far, the names being thrown out there seem to be Kaine, Warner, Webb, Sebelius, Napolitano (sp?), Richardson, Daschel, Sam Nunn... and the (to me) ridiculous ones like Gore and Colin Powell.

What you guys are missing is he was Reagan's Secretary of the Navy and spent almost a decade it the Marine Corps.

It's pretty hard to yell "inexperience" at someone who's already served as a secretary of an entire branch of the military.

Warner and Kaine would both be good, but what you're missing about Webb is that he balances Obama out. His total gun-nutness is okay, and even needed, after Obama's comments in San Francisco. You need a hot temper in a VP nominee (not necessarily a VP), but ask Joe Lieberman and John Edwards how it works trying to be a nice, little passive VP nominee.

This person's gotta be able to say things the candidate can't and win them bases the candidate otherwise couldn't get. Webb does this for Obama.

Sen. Webb is a Vietnam vet. Wasn't taken prisoner, but did serve as Secretary of the Navy (under Reagan). I think that might go toe-to-toe with McCain. They also share the same explosive temper :)

He, his dad, and his son are military. Charges of elitism will not stick.

Despite the lamentations of the paleos, a man who alternately endorses Republicans and Democrats is not a flaming liberal.

Methinks what the paleos dislike about him most is that they think he owes S.R. Sidarth and his brown-skinned ilk in northern VA for his narrow victory. Well, a) that doesn't matter in a national election, and b) South Asians are generally center-left, not hard left.

Obama-Webb sounds like a good ticket to me.