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Pro-Lifers and the GOP, Again

02 Apr 2008 06:02 pm

Dan McCarthy has penned a long rejoinder to my post on abortion, Obama and the GOP, and I thought I’d respond to a few points. First, this one:

The GOP has had opportunities to overturn Roe before—at any point when Republicans controlled the House, Senate, and White House, Congress could have restricted the Supreme Court’s jurisdiction over abortion using the powers invested in the legislative branch by Article III of the Constitution, overturning Roe at a stroke. Perhaps they were right not to do so: the powers of Article III, Section 2 have rarely been used in such a manner, and the precedent could easily have boomeranged against conservatives once the Democrats took Congress. Nevertheless, if the GOP were as adamantly pro-life as pro-lifers are encouraged to believe it is, the Republican Congress could have voided Roe any time between 2003 and 2007.

I am certainly not encouraging pro-lifers to believe that the GOP is adamantly pro-life; I'm just suggesting that given the political landscape on abortion over the last few decades, Republican Presidents have done better by the pro-life movement than many disgruntled abortion foes would have you believe. And McCarthy's example of what the GOP "could" have done if it were only more serious strikes me as pure fantasy. If this is what he expects an "adamantly pro-life" Republican Party to do for the anti-abortion movement, then of course he's going to be disappointed, in the same way that many left-wingers are no doubt disappointed that the Democratic Congress hasn't yet impeached George W. Bush. Like impeachment, overturning Roe via court-stripping would be a ticket to political suicide - and a pro-life movement that expects the GOP to commit political suicide on its behalf is setting itself for disillusionment.

McCarthy goes on:

Douthat predicts that “to vote for Barack Obama in 2008 is to give up on overturning Roe for at least a decade, probably for two, and possibly for all time.” This is histrionic. As the first comment posted in response to Douthat’s blog pointed out, the four presumably anti-Roe justices on the court are all young enough that one can expect them to be around in a decade’s time. Scalia is the oldest of the four at 72; liberal Justice John Paul Stevens is still on the court at 87. If Republicans can purge themselves of the taint of the Iraq War and clean up the party by 2012 or 2016, an opportunity to create an anti-Roe majority may arise again.

It's true that the four (presumably) anti-Roe justices will probably still be on the Court for the election of 2016. But right now, we're headed into a period when the next few retirees will most likely be pro-Roe votes, whereas a decade from now, we'll be entering a period when the most likely retirees will be first Scalia and then Thomas. This means that pro-lifers enjoy an opportunity now, however limited, that they probably won't have again for years to come. And ceding the Presidency to the Democrats for the next decade will enable a President Obama to restock the bench with young, pro-Roe votes, which in turn will force the next conservative President into appointments that merely sustain the current balance, rather than shifting it to the right. The "opportunity to create an anti-Roe majority may arise again," sure - but it could be a longer time coming that McCarthy's analysis suggests.

Moreover, with each passing year the argument from stare decisis grows stronger, tilting conservative jurists who might otherwise be inclined to overrule Roe and Casey toward upholding those rulings instead. And I don't think pro-lifers should count on being nearly as potent a force in American politics in the 2020s as they are today if there isn't any movement on the issue in the interim. (Especially since social conservatives can expect to find themselves on the defensive on a host of other fronts in the intervening years, as the biotech revolution picks up speed.) It's been hard enough to sustain the anti-abortion movement across thirty-five years and counting of disappointment, and telling pro-lifers that they need to set their sights on the Supreme Court battles of 2023 or so seems like an effective way to encourage a lot of them to give up on overturning Roe entirely.

And yes, I understand that overturning Roe won't end abortion in America, a point that the second half of McCarthy's piece is devoted to hammering home, and I completely agree with his claim that "to reduce the abortion rate in the U.S. dramatically will take a long time and will require much more than the reversal of Roe." But the reversal of Roe is a necessary pre-condition for all the hard and heavy work that he discusses, and to accept that Roe won't be reversed for twenty years or more is to push that hard and heavy work post-Roe work into a future so distant as to be essentially imaginary.

McCarthy also makes the point that the presence of a Democratic Senate, and McCain's own accommodationist instincts, will make it difficult for an anti-Roe justice to be confirmed. (Though not impossible, I would submit, for reasons that I'll happily elaborate in a later post.) But the argument from political reality cuts both ways, since McCarthy's case for why anti-war pro-lifers should vote against the Arizona Senator hinges on the claim that McCain "will perpetuate one unjust and disastrous war and probably start a few more." Given the constraints a McCain Presidency will face both overseas and in the domestic arena, the latter prediction strikes me as wildly implausible. As for the former prediction, I'm more inclined than McCarthy to sympathize with arguments for perpetuating our presence in Iraq, but even if I weren't I think its important to recognize that voting for Obama in the hopes - harbored by Bacevich, among others - that he'll follow through on his promise to "end the U.S. combat role in Iraq" is to grasp at a very thin reed indeed.

It's true that pro-lifers who vote for McCain in the hopes that he'll shift the Court decisively in our direction may end up disappointed. But I think that anti-war conservatives who vote against McCain in the hopes that a President Obama will extricate us from Iraq - or "implicitly call into question the habits and expectations that propelled the United States into that war in the first place," as Bacevich hopefully puts it - are setting themselves up for an even greater disappointment.

Comments (27)

We're headed into a period when the next few retirees will most likely be pro-Roe votes, whereas a decade from now, we'll be entering a period when the most likely retirees will be first Scalia and then Thomas.

First of all, you're stacking the deck by assuming the Democrats would have the White House for a decade. I believe Presidential terms are 4 years long.

Second, we should look at the ages of the Justices in question:

Pro-Roe:
Stevens - 87
Ginsburg - 75
Kennedy - 71
Breyer - 69
Souter - 68

Anti-Roe:
Scalia - 72
Thomas - 59
Alito - 58
Roberts - 54

Clarence Thomas is a long, long way from retirement. Now, is it possible that three Pro-Roe justices retire in an Obama administration and are replaced by like-minded 45-year-olds? Of course. Is it likely? Certainly not. And 2012 isn't all that far away.

So when Alito and Roberts both said that they would respect stare decisus and the precedent that had been set by Roe, were they lying?

Freddie asks: "So when Alito and Roberts both said that they would respect stare decisus and the precedent that had been set by Roe, were they lying?"

1. They're Republicans.
2. Their lips were moving.

What are the odds that they were telling the truth?

I am certainly not encouraging pro-lifers to believe that the GOP is adamantly pro-life; I'm just suggesting that given the political landscape on abortion over the last few decades, Republican Presidents have done better by the pro-life movement than many disgruntled abortion foes would have you believe.


Talk about moving the goal posts. Ross is almost as bad as Hillary Clinton in that regard. Given the lack of spine the Democrats showed during most of Bush's presidency, why couldn't they have passed a law outlawing abortion? Sounds like Ross forgets rule # 1 of politics.

The GOP has had opportunities to overturn Roe before—at any point when Republicans controlled the House, Senate, and White House, Congress could have restricted the Supreme Court’s jurisdiction over abortion using the powers invested in the legislative branch by Article III of the Constitution, overturning Roe at a stroke.

This is a pro-life fantasy, along the lines of using the "nuclear option" to steamroll over Democratic objections to judicial nominees. Rather than getting the votes you need to use an orderly process, you try to circumvent the process.

In truth, while it is true that Article III permits "exceptions" to Supreme Court jurisdiction, that would NOT "overturn Roe", at a stroke or otherwise. You see, the power to confer exceptions to jurisdiction is limited to FEDERAL COURTS; the state courts would still be permitted to hear abortion challenges AND WOULD STILL BE BOUND TO FOLLOW ROE AND CASEY, because Supreme Court interpretations of the Constitution are binding on the state courts under Martin v. Hunter's Lessee.

Further, a lot of scholars and judges believe that to use the "exceptions" clause to carve out a particular case outcome that the Supreme Court isn't allowed to reach is unconstitutional; that the "exceptions" contemplated are things like "the Supreme Court shall not hear an appeal or petition in any divorce case with original jurisdiction in a state court", i.e., carve-outs of TYPES of cases that the Court can't hear. Thus, there's a big chance that a pro-Roe court would just find the act of Congress creating the exception unconstitutional.

There's some indication of this in the Court's recent immigration and habeas cases. Congress purported to prohibit any review by federal courts in certain instances, and the Court implied a form of federal court review to "save" the statute's constitutionality. That indicates they don't take kindly to conservative fantasies about the "exceptions" clause.

"Repeal Roe" seems to me as much a leftover as the waning of the passionate dis-embrace of it that Ross laments (or notices) on the Right. Why? Because "Roe" isn't the current state of the law.

In the event that Roe is "overturned", there is no justice coming from the States that is better than O'Connor's balance-of-freedoms formulation, in a pluralistic, Democratic Republic.

In fact, it might do for Americans to find *new* ways to curtail the need for abortions in the USA, working together from the Left and the Right on that topic, a goal on which both sides are largely agreed. With luck, these new ideas would extend beyond new and creative, but largely inert, restrictions in law, such as the partial birth ban that was embraced as the pro-life litmus test during the Bush-II era...

Dan McCarthy is nuts. There is no way even with a Republican Senate in 2003-2007 that they would have gotten a majority to strip the Courts of reproductive rights jurisdiction, even with a substantial number of them wanting Roe reversed. Stripping the Court of areas of jurisdiction would be a radical action. Good luck getting folks like Chaffee, Collins, Snowe, Spector, Gregg, Hagle, Coleman, Dole, McCain, Smith, Warner to strip the Court of an area of authority or assembling any Democrats for a vote the RTL Fundies want. Or blocking a guranteed Filibuster. Or voting to end Roe and the Filibuster by the Nuclear Option.
McCarthy should know his vapid proposal didn't have a snowball's chance in hell.

Douthat - Moreover, with each passing year the argument from stare decisis grows stronger, tilting conservative jurists who might otherwise be inclined to overrule Roe and Casey toward upholding those rulings instead.

Wrong. Or we would still have blind "veneration" of stare decisis in Plessy v Ferguson.
As the years pass, more and more legal scholars, even on the liberal side of constitutional scholars have decided Roe was bad law that the Court had no legitimacy from the Consitution or past precedent to decide, and their meddling has poisoned the ability of government to get almost anything done after society, Congress, and judicial selection methods was rivened apart by Roe.

Esper - In truth, while it is true that Article III permits "exceptions" to Supreme Court jurisdiction, that would NOT "overturn Roe", at a stroke or otherwise. You see, the power to confer exceptions to jurisdiction is limited to FEDERAL COURTS; the state courts would still be permitted to hear abortion challenges AND WOULD STILL BE BOUND TO FOLLOW ROE AND CASEY, because Supreme Court interpretations of the Constitution are binding on the state courts under Martin v. Hunter's Lessee.

Garbage. If Congress stips jurisdiction if they decide SCOTUS usurped power from Congress, the Executive or the States, the rulings passed that unConstitutionally, in Congress's eyes - usurped power are negated - not kept on the books, NOT requiring the States to blindly comply forever more (See Dred Scott and the Civil War pre-13th Amendment).


Roe remains the showcase example of vast judicial arrogance and over reach. Even if you don't care about abortion as a big issue personally, you can favor it being overturned and sent to State Legislatures on the simple fact that in no other democracy did the Courts usurp the role of the People. From East Asia to Europe, excepting only Communist states and basic dictatorships like in Arab lands and Latin America - abortion law was created with the advice and consent of the People.
Worse, the usurpation was done in the US WHILE state legislatures were making considerable progress enacting liberalized abortion laws. Even worse, as even some very liberal judges have conceeded - they did this without the legitimacy of a shred of backing in the Constitution. Most States had abortion laws prior to the 14th, and there was absolutely no debate at the time the 14th was passed about retroactive applicability of it or the presumed "due process provacy right" of Griswald to existing state statutes framed by the People through their Reps on abortion.

And knowledge of this has been the cancer that has poisoned US politics and judicial nominations for 35 years.

In Europe and in other democracies, the populations all have passed laws LESS LIBERAL than the one the SCOTUS shoved down American's throats. Other democracies voters barred partial birth abortion, late-term abortion at the whim of the mother. All require a minor to have parental consent or court consent if parents refuse. The vast majority require the woman wishing abortion take counseling on alternatives like adoption, and learn first what state resources are available to help the woman carry to term and not disrupt her career or education that the woman may not know about. They maintain neutrality in counseling so it is not feminists paid by the abortion referral by for-profit centers, nor Fundie counselors saying they will roast in hell if they "murder". 12 weeks is the normal cutoff.

It stands to reason that is Roe is not overturned, the cancer it is to politics and blocking efficient governance will continue another 30-50 years. If turned over to the States for decision, the matter will be resolved by legislatures and alignment of Reps by voters within 5 years. With a result very close to what exists in Europe. Some countries in the EU have liberal laws, some have more restrictive ones..people can travel to obtain abortions if they live in afew restrictive places, but their citizens think their rights are protected, and the matter voted on and given legitimacy US laws on abortion lack.

I feel as a non American it must be said that all this bother about something as trival as abortion is unmanly and creepy

I feel as a non American it must be said that all this bother about something as trival as abortion is unmanly and creepy

You know what is creepy - 40,000,000 abortions in the last 35 years

you know what is even more creepy - a people who do not care to protect their posterity.

Chris makes a number of excellent points.
McCarthy fails to realize that even though there were Republicans in power, not all Republicans are pro-life. Unfortunate but true. (Although I wish there were some some pro-life democrats with some guts to stand up for innocent children and vulnerable women).

As for stare decisis - say Plessy v. Ferguson.

Bad case law is still bad case law. In actually it is not just Roe that must go. The whole Casey configuratiuon is plainly unworkable as a legal concept. It also was a poorly reasoned decision.

John Jakubczyk:
Are you for the Iraq war? If you are, you have no leg to stand on.

The right loves to champion the unborn; it's the born that they can't stand.

Ross, do you really believe that "the reversal of Roe is a necessary pre-condition for all the hard and heavy work" of reducing the abortion rate? Why not preaching the Gospel of life, baptizing those who believe in the name of the Triune God, and then teaching them to obey all that our Lord Jesus Christ has commanded?

This seems to me a much better strategy in a country like ours, where (i) close to one-fourth of pregnancies end in abortion, (ii) something like 85% of mothers carrying down syndrom children abort them, and (iii) 43% of women obtaining abortions identify themselves as Protestant, 27% as Catholic. (Source: http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html). Add the last two figures up and you account for 70% of abortions.

Then again, perhaps the key would be some sort of economic redistribution (either by the government as proposed by Obama/Clinton or by the church as proposed by our Lord). After all, the abortion rate among women living below the federal poverty level is more than four times that of women above 300% of the poverty level, a statistic that strongly suggests most abortion in the US is a reflection of economic desperation.

Mark H. - the abortion rate among women living below the federal poverty level is more than four times that of women above 300% of the poverty level, a statistic that strongly suggests most abortion in the US is a reflection of economic desperation.

Or it could be the inability of poor dumb black women, barrio and white trailer park trash to:

a. Figure out there is this thing called birth control pills.

b. Figure out how to keep their legs closed.

You know what is creepy - 40,000,000 abortions in the last 35 years

I made one of those!

Stay classy, chris ford. Stay classy.

Garbage. If Congress stips jurisdiction if they decide SCOTUS usurped power from Congress, the Executive or the States, the rulings passed that unConstitutionally, in Congress's eyes - usurped power are negated - not kept on the books, NOT requiring the States to blindly comply forever more (See Dred Scott and the Civil War pre-13th Amendment).

Um, Chris, there's a big difference between a constitutional amendment and an act of Congress. I agree that if a constitutional amendment passed overturning Roe, the courts would be bound to follow it. But a statute saying "there is no more federal court jurisdiction to hear cases challenging the constitutionality of abortion restrictions" is not a constitutional amendment. It doesn't do anything to Roe, it doesn't change the rule of Martin v. Hunter's Lessee, and thus, even if the statute's constitutionality is upheld, the state courts will still follow Roe and protect the right to abortion. Indeed, it might have the effect of locking Roe in, because even if you got a Supreme Court majority that wished to overturn it, it would have no jurisdiction to do it.

As I said, this is conservative fantasyland concocted by people who don't have the votes to amend the Constitution and haven't been able to get 5 anti-Roe votes on the Supreme Court.

Or it could be the inability of poor dumb black women, barrio and white trailer park trash to: a. Figure out there is this thing called birth control pills. b. Figure out how to keep their legs closed.

And to think that pro-lifers on these threads are SHOCKED when pro-choicers claim that a lot of opposition to abortion has to do with antifeminist beliefs about female sexuality!

If ending abortion is so important, shouldn't the effort be to change people's minds first, and then the law will follow?

Because I have to say that this line: We might well be able to reduce the rates of abortion among the very poorest American women, who couldn’t afford a regional airfare—which would be a very good thing. from McCarthy's article is one of the most contemptible things I've read in a long time. Rich people can ignore the law, but poor people get screwed.

Thanks for reminding me why I'm a Democrat.

Chris - You do not serve the cause by the sarcasm. Charity, seasoned in truth must always be our offering to those who do not understand. Calling people names or stereotyping the poor does not prove any point.

Marcus - Since you have no idea what I do to assist and aid women with unplanned pregnancies, I suggest that you refrain from the old canard that those of us who wish to end child killing, are only concerned about the born. In fact we are the ones who, without the billions of dollars that Planned Parenthood makes each year, offer real practical help to pregnant women and women in need.

Joe Klein's Conscience - Let's not confuse the issue. Regardless of one's opinion on the hostilities in Iraq, the loss of life is always a tragedy. So if we are opposed to the killing of innocent people, we must also include the unborn child in that group. Therefore those who oppose the fighting in Iraq should be the most vocal against the child killing going on in the abortion mills. Those who oppose the war should be out protesting the killing of these little ones. Are you doing that Joe? Saved any lives today Joe?

Mark H. and Francis - Poor people do not WANT abortion. They generally feel they have no choice but abortion because of economic conditions and circumstances. It also has to do with behavior and our own inability to master our behavior or address another person's behavior. After all we all know how babies are made. Perhaps if our culture was more respectful of life and the women who carry the life within them, we could find practical solutions for the unintended pregnancies many women face on a daily basis. perhaps if we supported the maternity homes and crisis pregnancy centers with the money we spend on entertainment and self indulgence, we could help our sisters in need. Perhaps if we really cared about the least of our brothers and sisters, we would never condone killing them.

Although the law must be changed, it does not mean we do not try to offer help and hope and healing to abortion minded women or women who have had abortions. Our role is not to condemn but to offer life affirming options.

This is not rocket science, Folks. Abortion kills an innocent human being. Why do we allow it? Why is killing a born human being wrong? Should not the killing of an unborn human being also be wrong?

Shouldn't we be offering to help the woman carrying a baby in here womb? Should we not respect the bond that exists between that mother and her child?

Isn't that what caring is all about.

There is never a good reason to kill an innocent person.

Lets stop the killing.

Poor people do not WANT abortion. They generally feel they have no choice but abortion because of economic conditions and circumstances.

That's rather reductive, and ignores the fact that many poor women, like many middle class and wealthier women, want to be able to have sex without the risk of pregnancy. That doesn't mean they WANT to have abortions as a first option, but it does mean many women want it as a last resort.

That's rather reductive,

Reductive? No. A generalization? Yes, and he admitted as much. So how many is many, in order for the generalization to be valid? It's easy for all kinds of generalizations to be made, based on our own presuppositions of reality, without having sufficient data upon which they can be grounded.

Dilan,

Many people also want to be able to live securely in their homes without the threat of burglary. That doesn't mean that we are allowed to hire death squads to visit the orphanages and pre-emptively kill all the putative future criminals, like we do in Brazil.

I'm sure you recognize the difference between approving of the end that someone is pursuing and disapproving of the means to get there.

Women seek abortions for many reasons. None of them is a good justification for abortion except when her own health is seriously at risk.

Women seek abortions for many reasons. None of them is a good justification for abortion except when her own health is seriously at risk.

Nice job of missing the point, Hector. I was responding to someone who had a very reductive attitude as to why poor women get abortions. I wasn't discussing the morality of the issue, which has been argued to death around here.

John Jakubczyk:

Yes, I was making that very point: the fact that poor women have abortions at a much higher rate than wealthy women suggests that their decision really isn't a product of "choice," but rather of negative forces and pressures beyond their control related to poverty, lack of access to healthcare, etc. And my other point was that we can (and already are) reducing abortion significantly by helping to alleviate some of these negative pressures.

The question is whether we should do more along these lines, or whether instead we should put our hope in the Supreme Court to resolve the problem as Ross suggets. You seem to agree as you write that the law "must" be changed.

But why? Jesus did not go about lobbying for reformation of the Roman legal code. Instead he founded a church, a body that was distinct from the state, and commanded its members to live together as he had taught them. Only much later, with the conversion of the Emperor Constantine and the eventual establishment of Christianity as the state religion of Rome, did some within the church start to think of their Christian mission as a matter of reforming the state.

But we all know how that project ended up: centuries of dirty, unholy alliances that led to the church's participation in untold evils in which innocent like was taken (e.g., Inquisition, wars, Crusades, etc.). Even worse, it was most often the church that suffered from this alliance with Ceasar as the state demonstrated time and time again that its ability to use the church to effect its own ends.

But the call of Jesus to Christians is -- and always has been -- something very different. It is, very simply, for us to be his people, his church, and it does not require us to support, oppose or become involved in any way with the state. See, e.g., Acts 4:34-35 ("Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, and laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.").

"Rich people can ignore the law, but poor people get screwed."

This was, if you read some of the history, the case before Roe. A lot of legal abortions were performed in hospitals under medical exception clauses; a lot of them were performed without a medical reason to, but because of rich people with connections and so forth, doctors would declare them medically necessary. Rich women were not really any more restricted in getting abortions than they are now; it was the poor women who ended up in back alleys with coat hangers.

In any case, we're talking about the Republicans having had the ability to overturn Roe in the past few years; nonsense, they could have overturned it long before then. Souter, Kennedy, O'Connor...if the Reagan Revolution had really been interested in this, the court would already have tipped over.

Mark H. - It is not a mater of "either/or" but "both/and" when it comes to making a difference in our world. Jesus said to be a light to the nations and "salt to the earth. WE must be actively involved in the temporal order in order to set an example of the spiritual order. All of the virtues that we ask of our leaders we must live ourselves. The law must reflect that as well to the extent that law is a reflection of the natural order.

Laws against abortion reflect the natural law and we must strive to be in harmony with this natural law. When humankind is not in harmony or in balance with the natural law, we see the consequences in destructive behavior that destroys order and harmony.

one more thing - the past failures of men to take advantage of the opportunities that they were given to do justice and right, must not prompt us to fear to act for the betterment of our brother. None of us is perfect. Neither can we sit idly by and not be called to account for our failure to do our duty.

So we cannot ignore the fact that the law is a teacher and helps people to modify their behavior and their base instincts.

As Martin Luther King, Jr. said, ( and I paraphrase, The law may not change the heart, but it will restrain the heartless."

In order to stop the child killing, we must change the law.


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