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Don't Do It, Bobby

05 May 2008 10:25 am

Perhaps the most prescient piece I've ever written (it's a short list) was a column for the Wall Street Journal in June of '06, which urged Barack Obama to run for President - because, I argued, "in presidential politics, it's usually better to run too early than to wait, and wait, for a perfect moment that may not come." Now the talk of McCain-Jindal raises the question of whether the same dictum should be applied to accepting a vice-presidential slot when you might be too young and green for it.

I tend to think the answer is no: The downside is too far down, and the upside doesn't have enough up to it. If you run for president and lose in the primaries, you can come back and run again: Just ask Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, Al Gore and John McCain. If you run for president and lose in the general election, well, at least you've lost pursuing an office that's worth having in and of itself. But if you run for vice president and lose - as is more likely than not for any GOP ticket this time around - the odds are your national ambitions are finished, since no losing veep since FDR has come back and taken the Oval Office. And if you run for vice president and win - well, in some cases you've taken an important step toward the Presidency, but in others you've consigned yourself to losing four-to-eight years that might have been spent more profitably elsewhere. Somewhere like, say, the Louisiana statehouse.

Now obviously the powers of the Vice Presidency have increased considerably during the last two administrations, and just as obviously being veep in a McCain presidency is a special case, since the heir-apparent aspect of the office will be magnified by McCain's age, his disinterest in vast swathes of policymaking, and the possibility that he would only serve one term. The question, though, is whether a young and promising governor like Jindal would want to be dubbed the heir-apparent to a President who would have won the White House in spite of his party's deep unpopularity, and whose administration would be almost certainly defined as the last gasp of Reagan-era Republicanism, rather than the first step into whatever's next for the GOP. Which is to say, even if a veep slot led to a Presidential campaign further down the road, by hitching his ambitions to a McCain Administration, Jindal might be signing up to play Walter Mondale, rather than the Bill Clinton he could hope to be instead.

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Ross, I have to say I find it almost touching that you are so concerned for Bobby Jindal's personal welfare. Another reason for Jindal to stay is that he's only been in office for a brief time, and he could go on to be one of Louisiana's most effective Governors (and I say that as a liberal Democrat who would never vote for him).

That said, if McCain really does offer, there's no way an ambitious young pol like Jindal turns it down. In fact, the more I think about it, the more McCain-Jindal makes sense. Jindal would appease social conservatives, as he's fairly militant on those issues (opposed to abortion even in cases of rape, incest, etc.) and they like the fact he's a convert to Christianity, although they'd doubtlessly prefer he converted to Southern Baptist or Assemblies of God rather than the Roman Catholic Church.

To me Romney makes no sense; Mormons already vote heavily and heavily Republican and he doesn't bring Massachusetts. Pawlenty might not put Minnesota in the GOP column (Cf. John Edwards 1.0, 2004). Although Jindal is very young, he's already been a Congressman, Governor, and a skilled domestic policy bureaucrat on health care, an issue likely to be one of McCain's main weaknesses come fall. Other than perhaps Rob Portman of Ohio, who would undoubtedly help win the Buckeye State, Jindal might be the GOP's best choice.

The most obvious reason it's a bad idea: it comes from Bill Kristol. The guy's wrong about absolutely everything.

Touche, Dave, although even a stopped clock is right twice a day, as they say...

Jindal would appease social conservatives, as he's fairly militant on those issues (opposed to abortion even in cases of rape, incest, etc.)

This to me is the big mistake.

The #1 quality you're looking for in a VP is not having a bunch of really embarrassing policy positions. The extreme pro-lifing described here fits there pretty well.

If McCain wants to shore up his social-conservative base, he needs to do so with a VP whom they like, but who has been smart enough not to sign on to their more extreme, and extremely unpopular, policy measures.

I think Dick Cheney should be the pick. And every campaign appearance for the Warmongering Old Bastards '08 tour should feature the music of Ted Nugent.

If Cheney won't take it, there's always the option of putting a cowboy hat on a 200 pound bag of horse manure - it will make the remaining Bush supporters feel right at home.

What it won't be is Jindal, because that would distract from the central Repiglican message against Obama, which will be "he's too swarthy and he has a funny name." They have absolutely nothing else to run on, so that will be it.

So what's OK for Obama isn't good enough for Bobby Jindal???

I smell the stink of hypocrisy here. In any case, McCain is going to make up his own mind. He's met Jindal several times and already, according to what I hear from local gossip, recognized Jindal's RFK-like qualities--charisma, intellect, dynamism--and has been further impressed with his personal loyalty and impeccable private behavior. Something Repubs have had little to brag about lately. If McCain does choose him Jindal will provide the skin-color and youth that supposedly are so good for this nation when Obama flaunts them. Plus the conservative credentials that the GOP base claims it's hungering for. So why the lack of enthusiasm for him here and in similar quarters? Could it be..? Oh no, perish the thought.

Jindal won't take the VP job at all, through having his name put out there is great for his national reputation. He has a great job to turn around LA and in eight years (because I'm fairly ceartin with Iraq this will be a democratic year) or four if the democrats screw it all up; he can run for President and be the Barack Obama of 2016 (or 2012 if the democrats screw it up).

He's sitting pretty and smart enough to know it.

As someone actually from Louisiana, I can definitely say that Kristol et al. obviously hasn't looked at Jindal's previous campaigns. Yes, he won easily here against a laughable opponent, but he's had some SERIOUS controversies regarding Protestant voters: some editorials, et al in his own words that would doom him in larger, more national settings. As a Democrat, I would welcome him as the Veep pick, he'd get ripped to shreads and would drive a lot of (especially Southern) Baptists away from the polls, exactly what McCain doesn't need.

As someone actually from Louisiana, I can definitely say that Kristol et al. obviously hasn't looked at Jindal's previous campaigns. Yes, he won easily here against a laughable opponent, but he's had some SERIOUS controversies regarding Protestant voters: some editorials, et al in his own words that would doom him in larger, more national settings. As a Democrat, I would welcome him as the Veep pick, he'd get ripped to shreads and would drive a lot of (especially Southern) Baptists away from the polls, exactly what McCain doesn't need.

The #1 quality you're looking for in a VP is not having a bunch of really embarrassing policy positions. The extreme pro-lifing described here fits there pretty well.

The reality is that McCain is sucking up to conservatives (when he should be moving to the left, a la Nixon, and daring them to vote against him), so any nominee he picks is going to be pretty extreme on the social issues.

But given that, I think that Jindal actually makes sense from McCain's perspective, because, when running against a youngish black man with a Kenyan father and an exotic name, an young Indian-American who also has an exotic name might be a good way to blunt those who might want to use their vote to "make history". It would allow voters to "make history" by voting for either ticket.

Jindal is also very charismatic, perhaps the most charismatic politician to come out of Louisiana since the days of the Long brothers.

So why the lack of enthusiasm for him here and in similar quarters?

I don't think there is a lack of enthusiasm. Quite the opposite. Many of us have such high hopes for Jindal that we don't want his potential ruined by getting involved in a national election too soon.

Hope Muntz writes: "In any case, McCain is going to make up his own mind. He's met Jindal several times and already, according to what I hear from local gossip, recognized Jindal's RFK-like qualities--charisma, intellect, dynamism--and has been further impressed with his personal loyalty and impeccable private behavior."

If all of that is true it's even more reason why Jindal won't be the pick. His presence would just underline the fact that McCain is a broken down old man running his last campaign - and that he has a history of adultery and shady dealings.

And did I mention that his wife is a HOMEWRECKING WHORE?

As for those thinking Jindal may be future GOP royalty, I suspect not. I think I have a handle on who and what GOP primary voters are, and they're not looking for tawny candidates. He'd have a better shot in a general election than he would in GOP primaries.

even a stopped clock is right twice a day, as they say...

But a clock that's five hours slow stays five hours slow.

I think I have a handle on who and what GOP primary voters are, and they're not looking for tawny candidates. He'd have a better shot in a general election than he would in GOP primaries.

ML&J, I don't know why you keep saying this. Jindal is clearly quite popular with the base. Look at the praise he gets here or from people like Limbaugh.

If his skin color were such a drawback with conservatives then Louisiana would be the last place you would expect him to do well and yet he's the governor there.

The idea that he struggles with the base is contradicted by his performance in Louisiana's 1st CD. There are no primaries in Louisiana but the first time he ran for LA-1 he beat 4 Democrats and 1 other Republican in the first round of voting by getting 78% of the vote. The next time he ran, in 2006, he got 88% of the vote. This is in a district that is 82% white and a gave Bush 71% of its vote in 2004. I think it's fair to say that your typical Republican voter doesn't have a problem with him.

And when he first ran for governor in 2003, he received 32% of the vote in the first round. The next closest Republican, a white male, got 6%. So either all the Louisiana Republicans that voted in that election voted for Democrats (and it was Democrats and independents that voted for Jindal) or Jindal received the overwhelming support of Republican voters in that election.

Mark Adams replies: "ML&J, I don't know why you keep saying this. Jindal is clearly quite popular with the base. Look at the praise he gets here or from people like Limbaugh.

If his skin color were such a drawback with conservatives then Louisiana would be the last place you would expect him to do well and yet he's the governor there. "

Well, I think he pulls a different vote in Louisiana than most Republicans do, if you look at the numbers. He would have won in 2003 if he got the "normal" percentage of the white vote a GOP candidate does, but he didn't. That he improved in 2007 is partly a result of post-Katrina politics there. And he has a history in Louisiana, people know him there - that wouldn't be the case nationally. (Louisiana is a very strange place - remember that David Duke got the majority of the white vote, state-wide, during one of his campaigns.)

I'm not disparaging his skills or his ability, long-term, to win over people, but I'm skeptical of his chances in a GOP primary chase. As for what Limbaugh and other scumbags say about him, take it with a grain of salt. They also praised Alan Keyes and it never translated to votes. Of course Keyes is evidently insane and Jindal is not, so that may not be a fair comparison.

The Catholic thing won't help him in the GOP primaries, either - look how Sam Brownback sank without a trace - the fundies just wouldn't break his way. Imagine how Jindal would go over at Bob Jones University, the traditional splash-off point these days for Repiglicans.

Doesn't picking Jindal ruin one of McCain's best attack lines vs. Obama. Kind of hard to say a one term senator is not ready to be prez when your VP pick is 10 years younger and has barely warmed the chair in the governor's office.

Blue Moon writes: "Kind of hard to say a one term senator is not ready to be prez when your VP pick is 10 years younger and has barely warmed the chair in the governor's office."

It becomes especially important when your leading candidate would be the oldest elected president ever and when he appeared with Nancy Reagan it was unclear which one of them would have a tougher time jumping over a sheet of paper.

I'm not sure the party that gave us Dumbya will be able to use the "not ready" line this time around, though. Hes been in the office for 7+ years and he's still not ready.

Jindal would be interesting as a way to quiet any concerns Catholics have on Hagee. Jindal's statements on Protestantism really weren't as bad as Laura implies, but he was clear that from a Catholic historical perspective Protestantism is a heresy and the Reformation a troubled time. However it would really make no sense for a conservative Catholic to say Protestantism is no different than Catholicism. And for some with any education in history it's difficult to argue the Reformation was not a troubled time. Even on the Protestant side you had Lutherans against Anabaptists, Calvinists versus Anglicans, and so forth.

However he is too new and the Republicans will probably get the South anyway.

i have to say, I don't much care for Jindal's policies, at all (I'm very much on the left on most issues.) However it would see someone who looks like me in the vice presidency seat. Jindal is, like me, a South Asian American and convert to Christianity. Identity politics counts for something. I wouldn't vote for McCain under any circumstances but under the right circumstances I might be tempted to sit out the election. For what it's worth I currently live in a 'swing' state.

I would hope that modern Catholics would not say 'Protestants are going to hell' but I would equally hope that they not say that Protestantism is equally valid. If you believe that then why be a Catholic at all (I'm not Catholic btw). There are good and great people of all religions or none, but I do think that indifferentism is much too common today abong American Christians. Jindal's statements are what one would expect any Christian to say about their own confession.

Jindal needs to spend more time as Governor of Louisiana. He's a bright prospect and there's no reason to waste him as a VP. The Veep just doesn't matter that much and, really, all McCain has to do is avoid a monumental screw-up (which for him might actually be difficult).

McCain should either pick another solid young Governor, e.g., Pawlenty or Sanford, or maybe an 'economy' Veep to balance out McCain's foreign policy focus, e.g., Chris Cox.

McCain should either pick another solid young Governor, e.g., Pawlenty or Sanford, or maybe an 'economy' Veep to balance out McCain's foreign policy focus, e.g., Chris Cox.

Neither Pawlenty nor Sanford would be a good pick. Pawlenty's only worth it if he puts Minnesota in the Republican column, and that seems unlikely. The Democrats will also undoubtedly highlight South Carolina's lackluster economy under Sanford if he's on the ticket. If McCain wants someone from the Bible Belt with solid conservative credentials, then he should pick AL Gov. Bob Riley. If he wants someone who will bring youth to the ticket and win him Ohio, then he should go with former U.S. Rep. John Kasich. If he wants to win back all the conservatives he pissed off with his 11th-hour (albeit successful) attempt to win Florida, then he should team with Mitt Romney.

McCain should either pick another solid young Governor, e.g., Pawlenty or Sanford, or maybe an 'economy' Veep to balance out McCain's foreign policy focus, e.g., Chris Cox.

Neither Pawlenty nor Sanford would be a good pick. Pawlenty's only worth it if he puts Minnesota in the Republican column, and that seems unlikely. The Democrats will also undoubtedly highlight South Carolina's lackluster economy under Sanford if he's on the ticket. If McCain wants someone from the Bible Belt with solid conservative credentials, then he should pick AL Gov. Bob Riley. If he wants someone who will bring youth to the ticket and win him Ohio, then he should go with former U.S. Rep. John Kasich. If he wants to win back all the conservatives he pissed off with his 11th-hour (albeit successful) attempt to win Florida, then he should team with Mitt Romney.

There are several very simple reasons that it should not be Bobby Jindal. Follow along.

1) John McCain will be 72 years old on inauguration day and has already had cancer.
2) Bobby Jindal is 36 years old.
3) You cannot sufficiently convince the public in two or three months that a 36 year old is ready to take over the presidency in a time of war, if necessary.
4) You cannot portray your opponent as inexperienced when you yourself have put a 36 year old with less than a year of governing experience one 72-year-old heartbeat away from being a wartime commande-in-chief.

That's it. And that doesn't even mention the substantive wisdom of putting such a young man in such a tough position at such a tough time. I mean, what happens if McCain suffers a fatal heart attack on Jan. 29, 2009?

Look at the two men over 70 years old who have run for the presidency - Reagan and Dole. Both of them took known quantities on the national stage. By doing so, they neutralized any concerns about their age. If McCain doesn't do so, there will be questions and Democratic attacks. And rightly so.

Frankly, I think it's questionable that any of the usual-suspect governors are going to be the choice, with the possible exception of Romney (although I hope not). My guess? Some establishment Washington figure, likely in their fifties in whom the public will have strong confidence in their ability to get us through to the next election. It probably won't be an exciting name. Try Newt Gingrich, Bill Frist, Kay Bailey Hutchison.

Condi Rice, although it might pain conservatives, fits the bill pretty well, inoculates McCain on race in what might become a racially heated election, and would be able to say things (for instance, about Jeremiah Wright) that a 60-year-old white man might not have the same authority to say.

Ross Douthat is right but for the wrong reasons. McCain needs to take votes away from Barack Obama (or HRC) much more than he needs to shore up his right-wing credentials. (Despite the conservative movement being all in a row about him, McCain has an American Conservative Union rating of 82.)

What McCain needs is a running mate who can credibly step into the Presidency on day one. McCain could also use some help with economic issues, although if he just read Reagan's speeches he might learn enough to make passable arguments for free markets and limited government.

So if I were him I'd choose Mitt Romney. (So what if he's a Mormon. Race, sex, and religion don't matter. Only ability does.)

Ross Douthat is right but for the wrong reasons. McCain needs to take votes away from Barack Obama (or HRC) much more than he needs to shore up his right-wing credentials. (Despite the conservative movement being all in a row about him, McCain has an American Conservative Union rating of 82.)

What McCain needs is a running mate who can credibly step into the Presidency on day one. McCain could also use some help with economic issues, although if he just read Reagan's speeches he might learn enough to make passable arguments for free markets and limited government.

So if I were him I'd choose Mitt Romney. (So what if he's a Mormon. Race, sex, and religion don't matter. Only ability does.)

Larry Siegel says: "So what if he's a Mormon. Race, sex, and religion don't matter. Only ability does."

Did you just land on this planet?

And what sort of "ability" matters? Romney was already rejected by the voters - and he was a negligible presence as governor of Massachusetts. And McCain despises him. It won't be Romney.

The more I think about it the more the 200 pound sack of horse shit in a cowboy hat makes sense. Give the base what they want. McCain will get his ass handed to him in November anyway, so why not make us laugh?

Maybe he'll pick George Allen and the slogan can be "Macaca And McCain And Pray For Pain."

Frankly, I think it's questionable that any of the usual-suspect governors are going to be the choice, with the possible exception of Romney (although I hope not). My guess? Some establishment Washington figure, likely in their fifties in whom the public will have strong confidence in their ability to get us through to the next election. It probably won't be an exciting name. Try Newt Gingrich, Bill Frist, Kay Bailey Hutchison.


Are you serious? Newt? How many divorces would Newt and McCain have between them? Frist? Two words. Terri Schiavo. I won't even start on Frist and animals. KBH? Can McBush afford another Senator on the ticket? And how can Portman help deliver Ohio for the Republicans? When did he last run for office? Does anyone in Ohio even remember Portman used to live there? How will the Republicans win Ohio now that Ken Blackwell can't fix the election?

Joe Klein's conscience wonders: "Are you serious? Newt? How many divorces would Newt and McCain have between them? Frist? Two words. Terri Schiavo. I won't even start on Frist and animals. KBH? Can McBush afford another Senator on the ticket? And how can Portman help deliver Ohio for the Republicans? When did he last run for office? Does anyone in Ohio even remember Portman used to live there?"

These are Repiglicans speculating, and they seriously think that their party has no image problem. They still LOVE all of the degenerate morons responsible for the Bushpig debacle.

I'm just surprised none of them have suggested Dan Quayle or his repugnant wife - or the true embodiment of Repiglicanism, Rush Limbaugh.

I would quite happily shave 30 days off of the end of my life - maybe more - just for the sheer joy that would follow if McCain picked Rush Limbaugh.

"So if I were him I'd choose Mitt Romney." LS

TR: This choice does not logically follow from the sentences before it. The only reason to pick Romney would be to get the "National Review" crowd back, but you say that's not important. Romney does not seem to get McCain anything. The "Mormon Belt" (Utah, Idaho, and to a lesser extent Wyoming) are solidly Republican already. The "self-made millionaire vote" is important to fundraising, but will probably help McCain regardless. Romney could be useful in a few red-leaning purple states of the Rocky Mountain, like Colorado or Nevada, but is equally a turn-off in many other swing states. His being Mormon, rich, and android-like is a big turn-off for many voters.

Demographically it'd make sense to pick someone in their early 50s, Catholic, and if possible a woman. You don't want someone too young because then it makes him look even older. Catholics don't seem to like Obama, and Obama's still the Democrats likely nominee, so that helps that. Likewise a woman VP could get some disaffected white women. I don't think anyone fits that description though.

However Governor John Hoeven is 51, Catholic, and a popular governor for his state. He's the US's most senior governor, but he's kind of unknown and maybe not ready for the Presidency. If you want to distance from Bush a little you could try Butch Otter who criticized some things about the President when he was in the House. He's also Catholic and got his first marriage annulled so he could marry a former Miss Idaho 25 years his junior. That gives him some things in common with McCain. I'm not being too serious with these though.

Running for VP and losing isn't entirely a political black hole. Bob Dole ran as Ford's running mate in '76, stayed in the Senate for 20 years, and won the nomination in '96. And Mondale--not a perfect analogy, obviously--won the nomination four years after he lost on the ticket as vice president. If Jindal can stay in the governor's mansion in Louisiana while he's running with McCain, and acquits himself reasonably well during the campaign, I don't see why his career would have to be over if he lost.

Yes, seriously. Admittedly, it's not the most appealing list. Newt obviously comes with baggage. Frist with less so, but with less of Newt's dynamism and base appeal. But show me a credible vice presidential candidate that doesn't come with baggage. (Kasich, maybe. He might be a good choice.)

Whatever their shortcomings, both could be presented credibly to the American people as men who could guide the country to the next election, if that becomes necessary. That's something many of the supposed candidates do not have. If you told the American people that a year from now somebody named Rob Portman could be their president, would they reply, "Oh, good news. Rob Portman is there if we need him"? He could be the best public servant in the history of public servants, but he doesn't pass that test.

Rice is the best candidate, IMO. She brings the Bush baggage, but she's the only star to emerge from the administration. If Cheney just decided not to show up for work tomorrow, she would presumably be the nominee to replace him, and she would pass fairly easily. She inoculates Senator I-Didn't-Vote-for-the-King-Holiday on race, and can speak from authority if the Jeremiah-Wright-a-thon turns bloody. And she gives the ticket a strong, relatively conservative alternative to Obama in terms of race or Clinton in terms of gender. She has drawbacks, also, but she fits the bill well.

I don't understand the Mitt Romney infatuation among some conservatives, as if he had been leading the movement through the wilderness for 15 years. He'll never have an easier path, and he couldn't deliver. Next time, you can substitute McCain and Huckabee with Petraeus and Jindal. It ain't gettin' easier.

If you were to take everything that people dislike about Republicans and convert it to visual form, you would get Mitt Romney. He's Alex P. Keaton's wet dream. The only constituencies that he brings are Mormons, Hugh Hewitt, and National Review Online writers. If Republicans don't have those, it's over anyway.

K Bowen thinks: "Rice is the best candidate, IMO. She brings the Bush baggage, but she's the only star to emerge from the administration. If Cheney just decided not to show up for work tomorrow, she would presumably be the nominee to replace him, and she would pass fairly easily. She inoculates Senator I-Didn't-Vote-for-the-King-Holiday on race, and can speak from authority if the Jeremiah-Wright-a-thon turns bloody. And she gives the ticket a strong, relatively conservative alternative to Obama in terms of race or Clinton in terms of gender. She has drawbacks, also, but she fits the bill well."

She's a proven liar who is inextricably linked to the failed war policies of Dumbya Bush. She's also never run a race, and her preachy, squeaky voice is grating - especially when combined with her "having a bad period or perhaps endometriosis" facial expressions. Plus she's a 53 year old woman who last dated a man in the '70s - unless, of course, the rumors that she's sleeping with Dumbya are true.

And she claims to be pro-choice. Yeah, that'll go over well with the base.

As a liberal Democrat, I've been concerned about Jindal, who seems to be everything the Republican party isn't these days -- fresh and honest, to begin with. I had no idea he was just 36. Yeah, that's a bit young for the job. If he were even 40 or 42, I think it would be a no-brainer. I also think that losing on a McCain ticket would in no way ruin what is shaping up to be an extremely promising political career for Jindal, who -- from a distance at least -- appears to be a powerfully attractive politician.

I could only HOPE McCain would pick Romney, but I don't think McCain can stand him on a personal basis, and McCain doesn't strike me as the type of guy who -- finally given the chance after all these years -- would pick a VP he can't personally stomach. I also don't see what Romney would buy him, as other commenters have said: those votes are ultimately in his pocket already. Romney would be a '76 Dole-style attack dog, but I'm not sure that's as much in style as it used to be -- especially against an Obama ticket if it turns out that way. McCain isn't the only person in America who won't be able to warm up to that guy.

As for Rice, picking her would be an endorsement of her catastrophic record as Bush's National Security Advisor, and by extension, Bush's entire performance on Iraq. McCain knows perfectly well that, while he supports the war as a matter of principle, he needs as much distance from that crew as he can humanly achieve.

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