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Doubting the Barr Factor

21 May 2008 03:13 pm

The argument about whether Bob Barr would take more votes from Obama or from McCain is an interesting academic exercise, and I agree with Noah Millman that one can imagine all sorts of interesting ways that a Barr bid could affect the election. But even if Barr gets the Libertarian nomination - by no means a sure thing - I'm distinctly unpersuaded that he'll get enough media coverage or raise enough money to be more than a very, very minor factor in November. I have a few reasons for thinking this, but the biggest one is that nobody likes Bob Barr.

Well, fine, "nobody" is a little strong - the guy won four House elections, after all. But Barr is neither a political icon for a generation of true believers (see Nader, Ralph) nor a natural rallying point for a resentful identity politics (see Thurmond, Strom and Wallace, George) nor a massively wealthy, massively entertaining, essentially sui generis figure like Ross Perot. If there's a promising parallel for Barr in the annals of third-party politics, the closest one would be John Anderson, who did manage to swipe seven percent of the vote in 1980. But for Barr to run as a Libertarian in 2008 isn't really like Anderson's Rockefeller-Republican campaign in '80; it's more like if Anderson had left Congress in the early '80s and then changed his ideological colors sufficiently to mount an independent bid from George H.W. Bush's right in 1988. Okay, that's an imperfect analogy, but hopefully you take my point: There's space for a spoiler candidate in this race, but Barr isn't the right person to fill it. He's too uncharismatic and too unknown, and to the extent he is known it isn't for the sort of politics he's lately adopted - rather, it's for impeaching Bill Clinton, which doesn't seem like a particularly useful calling card in the '08 election.

My bold prediction: Barr will do roughly as well as Pat Buchanan did in 2000, benefiting from the more favorable landscape for a right-of-center protest candidate but suffering from a lack of the charisma, celebrity and committed followers that Pitchfork Pat brought to the '00 race. He won't be included in the debates, the media will largely ignore him, and he'll end up being a factor only if the election comes down to some butterfly ballots in South Florida. There is an anti-war, anti-immigration libertarian who could have had at least a Nader-style impact on the general election - but his name is Ron Paul, and he isn't running.

Comments (19)

There is an anti-war, anti-immigration libertarian who could have had at least a Nader-style impact on the general election...

No. There's no such thing as an anti-immigration libertarian. You can be an an anti-immigration traditionalist conservative, or (maybe) even an anti-immigration free market conservative. But among libertarianism's fundamental tenants are the right of free association and the right to hire/fire/train/recruit/marry/shack up with anybody you want, without Big Brother looking over your shoulder to determine where a person's passport comes from.

32087,

So ALL libertarians refuse to recognize the legitimacy of the international state-system? All libertarians would (by definition) deny the state a right to control who are to be let into the country?

You do, I hope, realize that given open borders, several hundred million people would arrive in America within a few months? Which would, of course, lead to complete societal breakdown, anarchy and chaos (Iraq-style), at which pointimmigration would stop.

Try running for president on that platform.

Ross,

A counterpoint:

You're presuming that there isn't a large segment of the population that is so fed up, angry or dissatisfied that they *don't care* if they 'waste' their vote on a third party. There are a lot of people who want to 'make a point' and stick it to the major parties, particularly the Republicans.

Barr has a chance to sweep up a lot of people who can live with his right leaning libertarian style who either would hold their nose for McCain, or simply stay at home. Does this mean Barr has a significant chance to win? No, But it does mean that there is a reasonable chance for him to get into the mid single digits nationally.

Of course, if he doesn't get the nomination, then all bets are off and you'll have a lot of people staying home I suspect.

Let things sort out before proclaiming irrelevance.

I find this post rather persuasive, though it all does depend on whether the media counts Barr a viable candidate. Who would he pick for VP?

I don't find it persuasive, because the election will probably come down to who wins the southwestern states, and since they're all very close and the population of all three is very small, even a couple thousand votes could swing the election.

Thanks for the story. As a Green Party conservative, this year's libertarian candidates provide an excellent growth opportunity for U.S. democratic process.

A Barr/Mike Gravel or Gravel/Barr ticket is the strongest ticket available to come out of this convention of those offered....

Unless...the candidates get outside the box...

Say Gravel get's the nomination reaches out to Michael Bloomberg...or former Senator Lowell Weichert...or Kinky Freidman..or Mark Cuban...

"No. There's no such thing as an anti-immigration libertarian."

Well I guess Ron Paul's not a Libertarian then, really. Because last time I checked he was pretty strongly opposed to illegal immigration.

Is there any ONE person more identified with that lable today than Congressman Paul???

Don't really think so. But thanks for once again showing how Libertarian extremism gets in the way of Libertarian progress through the exclusion and/or denial of any MODERATE Libertarian positions.

Who really knew who Ron Paul was prior to the Iowa primary campaign getting under way? I'm a libertarian, and while I'd heard the name before, I knew absolutely nothing about him until about nine months ago.

Sure, Barr may have to convince people of his libertarian credentials, but it seems to me that Paul did the hard work of mobilizing and galvanizing a base of support. It's not clear to me why Barr won't be able to co-opt that support if he keeps saying the right things. Paul was/is hardly a charismatic man, either.

Please vote for Bob Barr the only sensible politician left running. Please be so kind to see what all the noise is about at www.bobbarr2008.com and donate $25 if you like what you read

Jeff,

What you fail to realize is that a LARGE part of Ron Paul's appeal is that you can trust him. He has a 20+ year voting record in congress that is solidly in line with his presidential campaign platform. You could trust him to stand for the things he has been talking about because he has been standing up for those prinicples for a LONG time.

Bob Barr does not have the same kind of voting record and does not garner the same kind of trust that Ron Paul does. That's why people are not excited about him.

We are happy that he has changed his mind on issues. But if you look at his record, whether its on the Patriot Act, DOMA, drug war, or his personal life, you come away wondering if you can trust him to make every effort to stand up for the ideas in the platform he is running on.

I guess, in this case, you could say that running on these ideals is standing up for them, but I would be a lot more excited to have a candidate like Ron Paul to vote for.

mike,

That's true. I heard Barr was on Fox news recently, and he hemmed and hawed and ultimately ducked a question Hannity asked him about drug legalization, so it's questionable whether he's going to be an adequate standard bearer for libertarian principles.

But at the end of the day, he's not going to win, and Paul (who, like you, I find more agreeable) isn't running, so I would wager that he (Barr) just needs to say the right things in order to garner support, which, for a politician, shouldn't be that tough.

Ha ha ha.........the NeoCons are scared this year and you can see it with Bob Barr and the impact of Ron Paul. Heres a fact, the Ron Paul people will not vote for McCain (who voted for Gore/Lieberman in 2000) in a million years and forget Obama.

But obviously they have to vote for someone to keep the movement going. Won't be Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party because he is a complete unknown. So they can write Ron Paul in which can only occur in those states that do not have sore loser laws, or they could vote for Barr.

But to get back to Bob Barr - there is much disinformation and propaganda being thrown around about him, and for good reason he is already at 6% or 7% in the polls. That is the highest percentage for a third party candidate that just announced a run for President. You have to go back to Teddy Roosevelt and the BullMoose Party to find better. For example, when Ross Perot ran in '92 he was at 5% and did not hit 7% until early September, 12% by early October and then finally 20% on election day, and thats after he quit.

What you have here is the making of a huge upset, because McCain has no backing from the grassroots and Obama and his racist diatribe in the books he wrote have lost the white vote in the rust belt.

I have been scanning the Christian blogs and Bob Barr is who they are going to vote for, being a Ron Paul campaign organizer, I can tell you we are already shadow campaigning for Bob Barr.

I can already see it starting to take off and it will only get bigger. Today, McCain's Campaign Manager (A Democrat) quit because he did not want to hurt Obama's chances. The more people learn about McCain the more they leave him and will be looking to Barr.

Look out it will be interesting

Bad journalism. Not able to differentiate between anti-illegal immigration and anti-immigration. Now that is a HUGE difference, just like between a non-interventionist and an isolationist foreign policy. Paul, Barr and every constitutional politician from whichever party should be for abiding by the law. Illegal is illegal!
Neither Paul nor Barr is the extreme anti-immigration, wall-building type like Tom Tancredo.
Also: very sweeping statements about Barr, that nobody would like him. Yes he is not the most charismatic person, and far from being a perfect person, but enjoys a lot of respect and name recogition. The ACU chariman, David Keene, for one has indicated he will vote for him. As you say, it is by far not certain whether Barr will get the nomination. There will be a strong discussion and they may change the platform to drive away the "rightwing" and moderate libertarians. In that case, most Ron Paul supporters would support Baldwin and Barr should IMHO make an Indy or third party run at a congressional or senatorial seat that he can win. This way he can help the Ron Paul revolution and be an extra voice in congress of support and sanity and remain political relevant and active.

So ALL libertarians refuse to recognize the legitimacy of the international state-system?

Er, no. That would, I think, make one an anarchist. Or very close to one.

All libertarians would (by definition) deny the state a right to control who are to be let into the country?

Not at all. A libertarian can reasonably hold that government should hold the power to provide for safety and security, and this would entail, for example, screening out criminals and terrorists who wish to immigrate. It might also include reasonable rules and regulations to insure that immigration is orderly, say, or that immigrants don't carry deadly pathogens, and that they're capable of supporting themselves. But the libertarian stops far short of erecting unnecessary barriers preventing one free man from hiring another simply because the latter hails from another land. The libertarian also refrains from calling on the government to engineer particular demographic outcomes via immigration policy. The ethnic composition of the nation might well be a concern for the Burkean, but certainly not the libertarian.

If there was a Christian conservative running, I could see them being a major spoiler for McCain, but Barr really won't make a big impact.

Barr has a couple of good choices for VP. Andrew Napolitano has been an outspoken critic of growing executive power and civil rights abuses. Karen Kwiatkowski was an Air Force officer who exposed a lot of the neo-con shenanigans at the Pentagon. However, the LP is divided between their own left-wing and right-wing, so they may wind up picking a left-libertarian (probably Mary Ruwart) as VP.

Ron Paul is NOT anti-immigration and the other commentor is correct...you can't be a libertarian big or little "l" BUT, you can be anti-ILLEGAL immigration.

"If there was a Christian conservative running, I could see them being a major spoiler for McCain, but Barr really won't make a big impact."

THAT WOULD BE CHUCK BALDWIN OF THE CONSTITUTION PARTY.

As someone who campaigned actively for Ron Paul I can say that a large number of his supporters plan on voting for the LP candidate no matter who it is. John McCain is the exact opposite of what a libertarian-leaning Republican could have hoped for out of the Republican nomination process. So Barr (or Ruwart or even maybe Gravel who's not even really libertarian) stands a decent chance of getting a large number of votes. Especially if the candidate picked someone like Andrew Napolitano for VP, as jwpegler suggested. Napolitano is very well-liked among Ron Paul Republican circles.

Of course, I'm only speaking for those who were RP supporters, and only the most dedicated. Maybe the LP won't draw anyone but them, which could be a big boost from the party's usual draw, but still not significant nationally...