The wisdom of crowds just let me down: Though I'm pleased to see Dwight Eisenhower topping Alex Massie's blogosphere poll of underrated and overrated Presidents, the fact that Harry Truman reaped just five votes (one of them mine) in the "most overrated" category makes me despair for my country - or at least its bloggers. If you're curious why I think Truman's overrated, this Slate Explainer, which tackles the question of why he holds the record for the lowest approval rating enjoyed by any modern chief executive; provides a pretty good starting point. (A botched war - and if you don't think Korea was botched, imagine how we'd feel if in the course of liberating Kuwait, George H.W. Bush had landed the U.S. in a bloody land conflict with Soviet Russia - various ethics problems, price controls and inflation, the attempt to nationalize the steel industry ... yes, that and some other things besides is the Truman Administration nobody seems to remember any more.) And the point is not that Truman was a failure by any stretch - just that while his highs were high, his lows were very low indeed.
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Harry The Overrated
13 May 2008 07:39 pm
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South Korea remained independent and is today a democracy. China getting into the war was at least partly MacArthur's fault. If Iraq in 2053 is like South Korea of 2002 we should celebrate. There's also the Berlin Airlift and racially integrating the military.
Economically it seems he wasn't very good, but people don't remember that stuff in truth. If he's overrated it's only because he's now seen, by many, as among the greatest Presidents. Although even then I don't know if that's all that unfair.
Isn't Truman also the first President to have Federal government do anything positive in a major way on civil rights (integrating the army, etc.)? I seem to recall reading about a southern delegate in the 1948 convention being asked why he was so exercised by the pro-civil rights part of the Democratic party platform this year when the platform had said the exact same thing in 1944; his answer, "because Truman means it."
A man so hated by the segregationists that they formed their own party (the Dixiecrats) against him. Sure sounds overrated to me.
Sure, Truman has problems, but when discussing whether or not a president is overrated, isn't that essentially a discussion about he matches up to other presidents? Personally, I think Lincoln is our best president ever, but he ditched Hannibal Hamlin and made Andrew Johnson, whose lack of competence was well known, his running mate in 1864 despite declining health (he probably suffered two minor heart attacks in 1864) and many death threats. Johnson, of course, famously botched Reconstruction by generally adhering to planned policies of his predecessor. This of course led to all sorts of awful things. So if the standard for being overrated is "not perfect," then sure, Truman is overrated.
But Lincoln won the Civil War, which ended slavery and brought the country back together. He also signed the Morrill Land Grant Act, which is by and large responsible for me getting a quality and low-cost education at Ohio State (and given my obsession with the Buckeyes, I kind of owe much of who I am to Lincoln in a way). Stan points out a number of things that, on top of the Truman Doctrine and the Marshall Plan that Ross mentioned, were related to the initial Cold War strategy of containment -- containment, of course, essentially stopped the spread of communism to anywhere beyond the Iron Curtain and was therefore crucial to our victory in the Cold War. It also, uh, stopped the spread of communism to South Korea, which is fortunately not subject to the whims of an erratic communist dictator brat.
So, no, I don't think Truman is overrated.
A botched war - and if you don't think Korea was botched, imagine how we'd feel if in the course of liberating Kuwait, George H.W. Bush had landed the U.S. in a bloody land conflict with Soviet Russia
You mean when MacArthur decided that he didn't have to respond to the Commander-in-Chief and was looking for a war with China, expecting to be able to go into a full-blown war against them?
About ten years ago, I visited the Pentagon and saw their shrine to that arrogant fool. It seems to me that any military that cares about discipline would have erased his name from every record they have of him.
I think the fact that FDR, Jefferson and Lincoln top this list should give you reassurance that the survey sample is aweful. Even Reagan's spot, and I do think he is somewhat overrated, shows a bias in the sample or the idea of using underrated and overrated categories themselves.
As a President Jefferson was not that great. He wasn't as bad as I once though, but still most of what we admire about Jefferson came before (and maybe sometimes after) his Presidency.
With regards to the lows of the Truman administration, I think the reason why people are still unwilling to view Harry as overrated is because when Truman made his screw-ups they were over a genuine concern to do the right thing. Unlike our current disaster George W., who seems to go out of his way to be partisan, cronyist, criminal and incompetent.
You also blame him for China getting involved with the Korean conflict. Instead of blaming Truman, try blaming Stalin for tricking the Chinese into thinking the UN coalition was going to keep going past the Korean border. Try looking to what Truman did when the Chinese did intervene: he contained the conflict, refused to go nuclear, and even fired a popular war 'hero' like MacArthur who wanted to expand a fight the world didn't want.
Truman's post-Cold War reputation may look hagiographic to you, but it isn't. There's a reason why people still think fondly of him: he wasn't as big a hypocrite as the rest of the bastards that followed him (Ike excluded).
It should be mentioned that the foreign policy achievements of the US while Truman was president are to the credit of the Truman Administration, not Truman the man. Leffler's Preponderance of Power reads like a biography of Byrnes.
"Truman the man" picked George Marshall and Dean Acheson to lead his foreign policy team, and they together with Truman picked George Kennan, Chip Bohlen, Averell Harriman, John McCloy, and Robert Lovett as their principal subordinates. Compared with Bush's gang, it's enough to make one weep.
What about the founding of Israel?
What about the Berlin Airlift?
And what about the fact that he ended WWII? Agree or disagree, dropping the bomb on Japan ended the war and saved hundreds of thousands of American and Japanese lives.
What about the way that he stood up to racists, the Dixiecrats, in his own party and marginalized them?
He's no where near my favorite president, but Jesus tap dancing Christ, considering the fact that he ended the war against facism, turned right around and began the war against Communism, integrated the military, instituted the Marshall Plan, helped found the State of Israel...he screwed up some things no doubt, but considering all of the moment in history that he was thrust into, he did one hell of a job.
And Reagan, Lincoln, and Jefferson among the 10 most over-rated???
Jimmy Carter the 2nd most under-rated???? Apart from deregulating the airline industry and appointing Paul Volcker what did he do that wasn't a disaster???? Yes I understand that this is isn't a listing of best and worst, but bottom 6 sounds just about right to me.
How is FDR not the most overrated president in history? Other than prolonging the Depression, creating the welfare state, ignoring the rise of fascism for almost a decade, attempting to pack the SCOTUS and generally do little to help people while consolidating his own power...what did he do right that would justify his #3 ranking? WWII??? Oh, please. Does anyone remember how unready we were?
How does presidential power work during wartime? I find it curious that simply being in office during a successful war is considered a sign of greatness. It's the Senate that declares the wars and ratifies the peace treaties. It's the generals and soldiers who plan and do the fighting. Not to mention the Allied states who do lots of the work too.
It's possible to make the case that Ike is underrated and Truman is overrated, but I don't think you've made a very compelling case. As others have pointed out, China's entry into the Korean War was largely the result of MacArthur directly contradicting Truman's orders.
Furthermore, despite the perpetual efforts by the Right to blame Jimmy Carter for "losing Iran" (by failing to come to the aid of an oppressive and corrupt dictator against a populist uprising, mind you) I would argue that Eisenhower lost Iran. Ike also shares responsibility for the Bay of Pigs fiasco.
I came on here to smack down your very weak arguments against Truman and am pleasantly surprised to see so many people have already done just that.
Ross based on your original post it seems you have a real lack of knowledge of American history. I'm glad to see so many of your readers have decided to take the time to teach you.
The Slate piece on Truman is pretty good, except for the irritating note at the end that "presidential failures" like Harding pre-dated opinion polls and thus were spared anemic approval ratings.
By all the evidence we have, Harding was an immensely popular President, as well he should have been, given the way his Administration turned around the economic and foreign policy quagmires it inherited from the Wilson Administration. Harding was elected with one of the greatest landslides in history. Nationwide grieving followed his death in office. And his successor, Calvin Coolidge, was promptly elected to a full term by another massive landslide.
Yes, there was Teapot Dome to sully the Harding legacy. But that probably had no more impact on the public's general approval of his Administration than Iran-Contra had on Reagan's (virtually none).
I think the reason why people are still unwilling to view Harry as overrated is because when Truman made his screw-ups they were over a genuine concern to do the right thing.
Truman invoked his "Commander in Chief" authority to seize control of the steel industry at the behest of organized labor. Pure partisan politics, for which he was slapped down by a Supreme Court consisted entirely of his own and FDR's appointees.
If GW Bush tried anything like that outrageous, we'd never hear the end of the netroots yapping about how he'd "shredded the Constitution."
Simon, nationalizing the steel industry was good for the striking workers, but the main reason Truman nationalized steel was to get the workers back to work. While the measure was (correctly) ruled unconstitutional, the gambit worked, management increased the wages, and -- most importantly -- production resumed.
I'd need to know more Simon, but let's say that's bad. I don't think that's quite enough to make him overrated on balance. Unless it plunged millions into poverty or totalitarianism. Did it do that?
About ten years ago, I visited the Pentagon and saw their shrine to that arrogant fool. It seems to me that any military that cares about discipline would have erased his name from every record they have of him.
Well, he was great in World War II but lousy in Korea. So they have to fete the things that he did right, and his stupidity in Korea doesn't erase what he did in WWII.
You're misinterpreting overrated. I never hear anyone running around talking about Truman being the best president. You generally have to be RATED HIGHLY to be overrated.
If the best anyone can say about truman is, "he didn't suck so bad," then you're not going to ever call him overrated.
Posted by Mark B:
"How is FDR not the most overrated president in history? Other than prolonging the Depression, "
Lie.
"creating the welfare state, "
Another New Deal hater.
"ignoring the rise of fascism for almost a decade, "
Another lie - he was preparing the US and helping Great Britain when the right in the USA was more in favor of Hitler.
"attempting to pack the SCOTUS"
True - which is one minor point against him. I guess that you can tell the truth, probably by accident.
" and generally do little to help people"
Lie.
"WWII??? Oh, please. Does anyone remember how unready we were?"
Lend-Lease, the pre-war draft, work on advanced aviation, ....
The "botched war" was more MacArthur than Truman. It was MacArthur who left his army on the Yalu exposed to a massive Chinese assault. It had all happened before after Pearl Harbour when the Japanese were able to destoy the US Air Force in the Philippines on the ground, days after Dec. 8th.
Read a book like Max Hastings' excellent "Nemesis" to find out how low MacArthur's reputation has sunk in the eyes of military historians. He was more of a great ego than a great general. Ok, a reasonably good military dictator, if you were looking for one.
Truman could have fired him sooner, but the political risk was great. MacArthur was adored by the GOP who might have nominated him instead of Eisenhower until they found out in time he was a bungling egomaniac.
Truman and MacArthur was almost Lincoln and McClellan for modern times.
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You're right. Apart from the Truman doctrine, the formation of NATO, the Marshall Plan, the decision to fire MacArthur, and, most important in my opinion, the decision NOT to start a preventive war with the Soviet Union, HST didn't do a thing.
Posted by Stan | May 13, 2008 9:56 PM