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Letting Webb Be Webb

29 May 2008 09:27 am

To my suggestion that an Obama-Webb ticket would widen the Democratic tent, Ramesh responds:

But since joining the Senate, on what issue has Webb himself been "something other than a party-line liberal"? Has he even said anything that marks him as a different kind of Democrat?

By and large, the answer is no - to the disappointment of his paleo admirers, among others. And there's no question that for the symbolism of an Obama-Webb ticket to work, it would have to be wedded to something more tangible than what Webb has brought to the table in the Senate - some specific policy proposals, for instance, that would allow Webb to act like a heterodox figure, rather than a guy with a history of interesting views who's sublimated them all in service to his party's orthodoxy. But taking some positions that clash with the Democratic establishment's views is something Obama ought to contemplate anyway - so why not pick Webb and then make him the point man for, say, an embrace of class-based rather than race-based affirmative action? (He sounds like he would be happy to oblige.)

Basically, if Obama thinks the country has shifted far enough to the left that he can run the way he's run to date - as the Democrats' Reagan, the most liberal major-party nominee in years - and win handily, then it might make sense to double down on that bet, pick a conventionally-liberal running mate, and try to win a sweeping mandate for a left-liberal revival. But if he thinks the race will be close, and that he'll need to tack toward the center to win it, then picking Webb and giving him something heterodox to say would be a pretty good way to go about it.

Comments (33)

This sounds like nonsense Ross. In a year of Democratic ascendancy -- of unprecedented liberal Democratic turnout -- you think the baggage Jim Webb brings is that he's not Conservative enough???

I think that's sheer idiocy. There are plenty of reasons to think Webb isn't an appropriate choice, but all of those critiques come from the left -- not the right. Having Jim Webb on the ticket isn't going to prevent anyone conservative enough to vote for McCain even in these times not to do so.

The idea that Democrats should compromise while they're ahead is pure silliness. And it's unwarranted optimism coming from you. I'm not saying we necessarily need to be confrontational about the ideological battles between liberalism and conservatism (like say, the obnoxious Ted Rall). I'm saying that right now, liberals has conservatism by the throat. And it's ludicrous to do anything other than squeeze as viciously as we can manage -- hopefully with a smile on the face and with rhetoric about us being a "single America" -- with the unstated qualification that this single America enacts almost entirely progressive public policy. And I'm ecstatic that this is a line Obama seems to dance on with aplomb.

how about mark warner...

there's been so much talk about webb... but i think his power is still in the senate.

i would like to hear arguments for and against mark warner.

i believe he would reinforce obama's strengths..

any input?

So, according to your last post, there's resistance on the left to Webb because he's "too anti-feminist, too pro-military, too skeptical about affirmative action and immigration, too hostile to Hollywood and academia"... and according to this post, he's a party-line liberal who could in theory advocate something that Democrats don't like.

I might be missing something here, but it appears to me that your views on Webb are still provisional at this time.

I don't know why GOP hacks think Democrats should have any interest in their "thoughts" on who the VP choice should be, so I don't see why Ross is bothering with these pointless posts. But I suppose it's just another way to avoid writing about the war and how badly the Bushpigs have served this country.

Also: Bushpigs! Dumbya! Repiglicans! My demented fantasies about getting blown by trannies! And so on!

In case you chuckleheads can't tell, neither of the previous two comments were posted by me. I'm still being impersonated by a Bushpig.

1. VP choices don't make much difference electorally.

2. Obama's gonna need as big a margin in the Senate as possible to pass his agenda. We need Webb there, not twiddling his thumbs at the Naval Observatory. That goes for Mark Warner too.

3. As for pivoting to the center, have you looked at the polls Ross? Obama's positions ARE the center. Why should he try to compensate for a problem that doesn't exist?

Obama should pick some capable, strong campaigner who can amplify his message and stengths. Anyone from Janet Napolitano to John Edwards to Ted Strickland (who, being from Ohio, is a choice I really like right now). Let Webb be Webb, and the Senate is the best place for him to do that.

Webb voted FOR telecom immunity in FISA. That was not the liberal position and counts as a negative mark for many in the VP race.

Anyone from Janet Napolitano to John Edwards to Ted Strickland (who, being from Ohio, is a choice I really like right now).

Ted Strickland is way off the reservation on cultural issues - he's pro-life. No chance Strickland gets the nod, and rightly so.

Sherrod Brown is my pick. From Ohio, excellent on labor and economics, solidly of the left of the party while being electable and popular in the rust belt.

As Ross says, if Obama sees the tide turning heavily in the Democrats' favor, there isn't much reason to throw concessions to the right that he wouldn't favor ideologically. I still think the best analysis of this election cycle is that such a reading is precisely right.

i would like to hear arguments for and against mark warner.

He's very conservative. And he's not conservative in interesting ways like Webb, but rather he's a pretty doctrinaire DLC business-handout throwback to the early 90s. If there's one set of issues on which the Democrats absolutely ought not tack to the center, it's economics.

The goal for the Democratic party should be to minimize the power and utility of Mark Warner Democrats. If we're going to bridge divides in this country, it should be to the cultural center/right, not the economic - that's where the votes are.

When discussing electability I cannot escape the comments given to print and electronic reporters from "regular folks" in Pennsylvania and West Virginia who came right out and said they wouldn't/couldn't vote for Obama because of his race and doubted whether the country as a whole would either. This is truly shocking stuff (maybe I've just been unaware of this country's true mettle) that was delivered in such a scarily matter-of-fact manner that it makes me ponder the depth to which the sentiment pervades the electorate.

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The person responsible for imitating MLaJ has been sacked.

The person responsible for imitating MLaJ complaining about imitators has also been sacked.

No, I think Obama needs to pick a faux centrist like Governor Kathleen Sebelius. She's somebody who is actually fairly left but she gets tons of centrist credo for picking two Republicans as her running mates. Sebelius is the tidebreaker that allows Obama to pivot hard-left without scaring the white people. As soon as he picks her, he should go all doctrinaire ala Reagan.

"There can be no liberty without the responsibility to protect that liberty. Safeguarding liberty, protecting the four freedoms Franklin Roosevelt spoke of--that is a basic premise that governs my politics and that is the basic function of government. Without government, there is no freedom, only varying forms of anarchy. We have seen such anarchy at work in our politics these last 8 years, pushed by a false ideology that views government as evil, that views selfish anarchy as a virtue. This ideology is unamerican. This ideology tells millions of Americans like you and I that we can enjoy the benefits of freedom without any responsibility to protect that freedom. This ideology is self-centered and self-defeating. This ideology is a lie--a malicious lie propagated by pseudo patriots who claim to love their country even as they dismantle it, economic royalists who claim to be tough against our enemies even as they make our soldiers sacrifice their lives in a mindless war while refusing to sacrifice by paying their taxes. My friends, this is an ideology whose resulting effect is that we are forced to subsidize the rich by propping them up on the backs of our children and grandchildren. This is an ideology that doesn't care about your children and grandchildren or mine; It disdains putting money into educating them, it cares not if it burdens them with debt, it poisons the atmosphere of the planet into which they shall be born. This ideology, the neo-con ideology--is intellectually and functionally bankrupt, and this November is the time for you and I both to band together and destroy it once and for all."

Adam Greenwood writes: "The person responsible for imitating MLaJ has been sacked.

The person responsible for imitating MLaJ complaining about imitators has also been sacked."

You mean I was being imitated by an Atlantic employee?

I'm honored. This is right up there with the death threats I've received.

You're honored?

No, you're fired.

I guess the Mark Warner commenters don't live in Virginia. The guy's running for a Senate seat this November and is a virtual lock. No need to pluck him from a "safe" Senate seat.

I can think of no one in public life less attuned to the VP's role than Jim Webb - the man is temprementally a twin of Ollie North, his old sparring partner at the Academy. If Obama wants a Virginian, he should pick Mark Warner, who could run for the Senate and VP on the same ballot as LBJ did. A more unconventional choice might be Lamar Alexander, who fulfills almost all of the same boxes as Webb or Warner, but would reduce the Repub Senate total and allow Bredensen to appoint Harold Ford, Jr.

Whoever is impersonating MoeLarryandJesus is doing a poor job of it. 'Bushpig' does not carry the same high comic impact as 'Repiglican' and you know it. All of you pale imitators should just go away and let the Master do his thing.

MuhammedLuLuandGaia is just another Bushpig trying to keep me from telling the truth about Repiglicans. Nice try, you Dumbya-loving chucklehead.

This is right up there with the death threats I've received.

I just want to apologize for that reference to the death threats. I have a lot of unresolved issues with my mother, but it's just not fair to use Ross' blog to publicize the many times she tried to drown me in the bathtub. To either of us, really. I feel really bad about bringing it up, and I hope you will all forgive me.

MuhammedLuLuandGaia is just another Bushpig trying to keep me from telling the truth about Repiglicans. Nice try, you Dumbya-loving chucklehead.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | May 29, 2008 8:44 PM

This is the thanks I get for telling your impersonators to go away so you can do your work unmolested by their petty nonsense?

For the record, I don't love 'Dumbya'; I am not a 'repiglican'; and I don't know the technical definition of 'Bushpig' but I doubt I qualify. I will cop to being a chucklehead,but only because Moe is so gosh darned funny.

Get us out of Iraq + eliminate racial preferences = President.

Obama is uniquely placed to do it. It would be like Welfare Reform II, the sequel that out-grosses the original. He alone among Democrats could do it and still hold most of the black vote. As a Democrat he can sugar-coat the bitter pill with non-racial prefences (low income, bad neighborhood, crummy school, parent in jail). He can (as a Democrat) expand Affrmative Action while (as a black) removing race.

A unique opportunity to re-position the Democrat as the party of the working class.

MuhammedLuLuandGaia is just another Bushpig trying to keep me from telling the truth about Repiglicans. Nice try, you Dumbya-loving chucklehead.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | May 29, 2008 8:44 PM

How am I, or anyone else, trying to keep you "from telling the truth about Repiglicans?" Busting your chops is not silencing you, but you keep telling yourself whatever you need to in order to keep that persecution complex alive.

MuhammedLuLuandGaia is just another Bushpig trying to keep me from telling the truth about Repiglicans. Nice try, you Dumbya-loving chucklehead.

Posted by MoeLarryAndJesus | May 29, 2008 8:44 PM

How am I, or anyone else, trying to keep you "from telling the truth about Repiglicans?" Busting your chops is not silencing you, but you keep telling yourself whatever you need to in order to keep that persecution complex alive.

I never use the term "chucklehead." I use "chuckles" frequently, and every once in a while I'll throw in a "muttonhead."

I hope you're taking notes, whoever you are.

It's unfortunate that Ross and the Atlantic have us sign in with user names and email addresses but still allow something like the post at 11:07 to occur. I didn't post that item. Someone is giving advice about how to impersonate me more effectively, and I don't appreciate it.

Go blow a tranny, chuckles.

I'm bigger than the Beatles. And they were bigger than Jesus.

The American Dream!

I love being gang-banged by the Utah National Guard.

Crap, I signed in under the wrong name. That comment at 3:00 about the Utah National Guard is a lot funnier if you imagine it was posted by Tagg Romney. You, know, Tagg Romney? The Repiglican?

What, we aren't making fun of Tagg Romney anymore? What are we, a bunch of Bushpig-fellating tranny-loving Repiglicans?

"What are we, a bunch of Bushpig-fellating tranny-loving Repiglicans?"

Is there any other kind of Repiglican?

What the heck are you still doing in here, Moe? Would you get out of this comments section so I can sweep up and go home? It's Friday, for Pete's sake.