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Classic Obama

11 Jun 2008 09:00 am

As evidence that on judicial appointments, his candidate isn't "quite the knee-jerk liberal base-pleaser some want us to believe," Andrew marshals this Daily Kos guest post from 2005, in which Obama defends Russell Feingold's and Pat Leahy's votes to confirm John Roberts to the Supreme Court. And Andrew's right, in a sense: The post is in many respects a brave and thoughtful rebuke to the Kossack, scorched-earth style of politics, and an eloquent defense of the tradition that gives Presidents the benefit of the doubt when they appoint obviously-qualified nominees to the high court.

The only thing undercutting all this bravery is the fact that Obama himself voted against John Roberts, because Obama himself actually agreed with the the liberal base that "too much is at stake here and now, in terms of privacy issues, civil rights, and civil liberties, to give ... Roberts the benefit of the doubt," all those high-minded thoughts notwithstanding. But he wanted the Kossacks - and us - to know that his decision wasn't a knee-jerk one, that it was made in a careful, contemplative fashion, and that he understands (as he always does) why someone else might have come to a different conclusion.

The results are the same, but the style is so much more thoughtful.

Comments (74)

See, on The Next Right, I would read this as a cynical jab at Obama. Here, on an Atlantic blog, even knowing you're a conservative I don't know what to think. Do you legitimately value that he is "so much more thoughtful," or are you implying that it's of no real importance?

No need to tag a post-destroying update, but I'd appreciate it if you could clarify this in a later post.

But he wanted the Kossacks - and us - to know that his decision wasn't a knee-jerk one, that it was made in a careful, contemplative fashion

You say this like it's a bad thing.

No,

The results aren't the same beyond the arithmetic of the vote, and you know that.

If words have no impact or meaning on political discourse, then Republicans would not be desperate to attack Obama as an 'empty suit', since they can't come close to matching him with McCain's oratory skills.

And you wouldn't be trying another snide commentary, though with far less linguistic grace than Obama.

'knee-jerk' - from a man who would vote Vitter as Preisdent because of the (R) next to his name.

Joke.

Right on Ross. I prefer unthoughtful and immature--frat-boyish if you will--presidents.

Obama said the following (edited) on Roberts:

"in those 5 percent of hard cases, the constitutional text will not be directly on point. The language of the statute will not be perfectly clear. Legal process alone will not lead you to a rule of decision...

...in those difficult cases, the critical ingredient is supplied by what is in the judge's heart."

Now, let's see what that screaming liberal, Richard Posner has had to say about Roberts recently (from NYTIMES):

The chief justice’s self-description during his confirmation hearing as a simple baseball umpire might have been a “tactical error” for one who evidently “aspires to remake significant areas of constitutional law,” Judge Posner writes, adding:

“The tension between what he said at his confirmation hearing and what he is doing as a justice is a blow to Roberts’s reputation for candor and a further debasement of the already debased currency of the testimony of nominees at judicial confirmation hearings.”

Not sure that it is knee jerk. I think what you are participating in is a circle jerk, but the rest of the gang are over at Townhall.com

Apologies for the broken italics - i think its clear who said what though.

Given that you are an intellectual, I'd think that you'd appreciate Sen. Obama's respectful, thoughtful tone.

Given that you are further to the right than Obama is to the left, I'd think you'd be sympathetic to his standing on principle to vote against a man selected without any consultation with Democrats, who evidently “aspires to remake significant areas of constitutional law.”

I would hesitate to hold his vote against him. Point is, he understood the point and didn't carry on the fight in what he rightly called a quixotic manner.

A comment on Senate voting records generally:

There's a reason that (until this year) Senators don't win the White House. Actually, several. One is that within a record of thousands of votes, you can find inconsistencies (flip-flops, if you will) or unpopular or "wrong" votes pretty damn easily, and attack any Senator on these grounds.

The second is that, as one of 100 Senators, it's your job to be partisan. No matter how moderate you are, no matter how much you believe in consensus, the fact is that you are one of between , say 46 and 54 members of your party in a chamber of 100, and your vote is needed to serve as a counterweight to others.

Think of it this way: if I'm a moderate and one of 50 Democrats in the Senate, I need to vote with the other Democrats on basically every issue to avoid having the Senate swing 100% to the right, because (in an ideal theoretical example), any vote on which I sided with the Republicans would result in a 51-49 Republican majority.

There's also an argument in the fact that most Senators know what the outcome of each vote will be. If you know Roberts is going to be confirmed by 10 votes, why not just vote with your party against him, since the outcome doesn't violate your principled belief that a newly re-elected President should be able to fill the court? There may be an argument as well, that to reinforce the Constitutional power of the Senate, it's more seemly to have a SCOTUS nominee approved 55-45 or 52-48 than rubber stamped by a margin of 40 votes.

All of this adds up, basically, to an opinion I've held for several years: quite counter-intuitively, the voting record of a Senator is actually NOT a good indicator at all of how they would govern as a President with sole executive power.

Trouble is TH, it's like the comments on earlier posts - people are taking Ross at his word.

His posts suggests that without the text (which he is implying is essentially lies), it was a knee-jerk and partisan response.

Never mind that Obamas concerns have been nothing compared to what one of the most respected Judges and conservatives thinks actually has transpired.

Ross simply cannot imagine there might be legitimate reasons beyond partisan politics, or depth beyond red and blue, so is implying the words are just that.

While obviously excluding himself from such company.

With 'Bush's legacy' series of posts, Vitter for President and this, he's increasing looking to be a hack, who gets the benefit of the doubt because of the website he is on.

Is the implication that Obama should have voted for somebody he didn't want as Chief Justice, just to impress you with his bravery?

"an eloquent defense of the tradition that gives Presidents the benefit of the doubt when they appoint obviously-qualified nominees to the high court."

Well this is the point, and the point Obama cannot overcome simply by saying "too much is at stake here and now, in terms of privacy issues, civil rights, and civil liberties, to give ... Roberts the benefit of the doubt,"

In other words actions speak louder than words.

Check out the confirmation votes for Scalia (a much more controversial justice than Roberts) For that matter check out the votes for Ginsburg & Breyer.

The Left so needs the courts to enact its public policy that (forever more) ALL SCOTUS nominees of the right will be in a position were "too much is at stake here and now, in terms of privacy issues, civil rights, and civil liberties, to give ... Roberts the benefit of the doubt,"


What Obama has done is paid lip service to a crucial idea that prevents the politicization of our judiciary.

What his actions have denoted is that he is on board the scorched earth policy of the democrats that have turned the courts into super legislatures and the confirmation hearings into witch hunts.

"confirmation hearings into witch hunts"

Which witch hunt was which? What confirmation hearings in the Bush presidency (we'll leave what Republicans do in confirmation hearings) were a witch hunt?

Alito? I don't think so
Roberts? really?

Perhaps you are thinking about when that brilliant legal mind Harriet Miers was horribly hounded from the nomination.

James...

Those votes themselves are telling. SCOTUS nominations used to proceed on a near consensus over a qualified nominee. The republicans have maintained this position.

The democrats have not - even for Roberts & Alito who were eminently qualified.

If you want to see the day when a democratic nominee (or Republican)is turned down on a party line vote then it is you who are responsible.

The results are the same, but the style is so much more thoughtful.

The same could be said about you and Hugh Hewitt.

Oh, Ross, you're so much cleverer and deeper-thinking than those godless, careerist Harvard liberals with whom you attended school!

Fitz, the reason that there was consensus on Ginsburg and Breyer was that Clinton made those nominations after consulting with Sen. Hatch.

Now, you're free to believe that Bush, who unlike Clinton had a majority in the Senate, was entitled to make his selections without consulting with the other party.

But if you do think that, it does not follow that Democrats were under an obligation to rubber stamp Bush's selections regardless of their ideology.

So, basically, they weren't a witch hunt at all. At least that point is clarified.

I would imagine the Democrat position changed definitively after the 2000 election. You can debate who made it a party issue depending on your view of the decision I guess, but who voted for what is on record.

If you think that Republicans will maintain that consensus position if Obama is elected and has to nominate, then I have a bridge to sell you.

And Obama's position is even more startling when you consider that he also supported the attempted filibuster (!!) of Alito. If this is the result of his calm reflection and due consideration of the merits of the matter, then it's even more troubling than simple knee-jerk opposition.

Not sure I get the point here...is having principled disagreement on an issue somehow a bad thing? Or would Ross rather have politicians that vote against or embrace positions contrary to what they say they believe for the sake of being bipartisan?

Obama felt like Alito and Roberts might move the court right. They have. That's not what he would want, so he voted against them. I'm not so sure of what Ross' expected outcome would be given those facts.

Given that you are further to the right than Obama is to the left

I think this is possible but far from clear -- Obama (often) speaks like a more centrist figure than his background and the glimpses his voting record (such as it is) and ideological history suggest he might be at heart. Ross as a practicing politician who had to get elected might say a lot of mealy-mouthed stuff he didn't buy; his actual chosen alliances so far are less radical than Obama's, arguably. But it's true it's hard to SAY exactly what Obama actually thinks.

The results are the same, but the style is so much more thoughtful.

And sometimes, the style is what really counts.

"So, basically, they weren't a witch hunt at all. At least that point is clarified."

They did all they could given the fact that they did not have a majority. They even threatened a filibuster, stopped by a last minute deal.

If the Dems were in the majority they would have attempted to Borked both of them.

"an eloquent defense of the tradition that gives Presidents the benefit of the doubt when they appoint obviously-qualified nominees to the high court."

Its benefit of the doubt for qualified nominee's NOT I'm a liberal lets vote against conservatives. It is the president (in power) who appoints- the Senate just confirms.

"Fitz, the reason that there was consensus on Ginsburg and Breyer was that Clinton made those nominations after consulting with Sen. Hatch."

Hatch was the Judiciary committee chairman -of coarse he was consulted about the nomination process. So was Specter. The Republicans had the majority.

That is not however the "reason that there was consensus on Ginsburg and Breyer".

That was the Republicans illustrating their respect for "the tradition that gives Presidents the benefit of the doubt when they appoint obviously-qualified nominees to the high court."

Something the Democrats did not do for Alito & Roberts. They are going scorched earth and so you can’t cry foul.

You are right. Obama is very good at making it seem like he cares about your opinion, and maybe he does, before disregarding it and acting in a partisan way.

That he refused to vote for Roberts shows his true partisan ways.

You may dislike Roberts political conclusions, but not agreeing with his political views is not a reason to keep him off the Supreme court. That's playing politics with the highest court in the land.

Roberts answered all the questions of the senators flawlessly -- or at least as well as anyone could answer them and then Obama went and voted against him for a political reason. Anyone who thinks Roberts is unfit to serve on the Supreme court is a joke.

The results are the same, but the style is so much more thoughtful.

You mean just like how you decide that you would hold your nose and vote for Vitter over Obama?

Oh, I see that Jeff has already snarked this statement better than I could. I adopt his statement by reference.

So Sam,

Posner is a joke? Admittedly doesn't go that far, but he is hardly impressed:

The chief justice’s self-description during his confirmation hearing as a simple baseball umpire might have been a “tactical error” for one who evidently “aspires to remake significant areas of constitutional law,” Judge Posner writes, adding:

“The tension between what he said at his confirmation hearing and what he is doing as a justice is a blow to Roberts’s reputation for candor and a further debasement of the already debased currency of the testimony of nominees at judicial confirmation hearings.”

The notion that conservatives don't "play politics with the highest court in the land" strikes me as being the most unintentionally amusing thing said in this thread.

The right hasn't exactly been discrete in treating the SCOTUS as an ideological battle-ground and the tactical high ground in the "culture wars".

I'm also offended by the notion that "tradition" demands that senate confirmations of justices follow a rubber stamp. Is the concept of checks and balances to be superceded by tradition?

I think not.

Obama has every right and every duty to vote his conscience. You may perfectly well disagree with his stance, but let's not pretend that he has any obligation to vote for a candidate whom he feels would be a bad choice.

I'm also vastly amused that conservatives still think that "borking" is a perjorative. Suffice it to say that those of us who aren't to the right of Atilla the Hun are rather relieved that Bork isn't on the court.

Finally Ross, the antonym of knee-jerk isn't agreement. One can disagree with your stance on an issue without jerking their knee (just as one who agrees with you may very well be doing so).

As much as you'd like to believe otherwise, thoughtful deliberation does not automatically lead one to side with conservatives on all issues.

No one has mentioned that the rhetoric of understanding is affecting at least a large portion (we'll see but I bet a majority of...) the American political population like water falling on parched earth, after these decades of Lee Atwater & Karl Rove, Tom Delay & Trent Lott.

I'll take Obama's approach to the electorate in Nov. And despite Ross' and Brent Bozell theocratic longings, the voice of a democratic people IS the voice of God.


So we get a Borking of our own. We can use the conservative media to demonize (Bork is one of the most respected judges in America & its best legal mind) whoever the Dems put up if they get in office.

Put tremendous pressure of red state Dems, that this guy/girl will impose same-sex marriage and partial birth abortions!

And vote along party line.

Gotcha....sounds like a plan.

The results are the same, but the style is so much more thoughtful.

It's already been noted, but this is pretty rich coming on the heels of your serious, thoughtful, detailed parsing of the McCain character issue.

Fitz,

Hate to break it to you, but you aren't the first person to figure that out, not least since it's merely an extension of recent Republican strategy in general.

And this claim that Bork was an apolitical genius - I'm confused - was he not part of the Saturday Night Massacre? and he wasn't a senior fellow at The American Enterprise Institute for Public Policy Research? and he didn't help write a brief for Scooter Libby?

James

At the time of his confirmation multiple legal scholars from across the nation called him our best legal mind. All sides of the academy praised his intellect.

The rest is just politcs - not law

Mike P writes: "Obama felt like Alito and Roberts might move the court right. They have. That's not what he would want, so he voted against them. I'm not so sure of what Ross' expected outcome would be given those facts."

Ross is a GOP hack who believes that when a Repiglican is in the White House that Democratic senators have a duty to "consent and consent." Nothing else is acceptable.

As for all the bullshit Fitz is throwing up about "Borking," he was probably one of the cons who Borked Harriet Miers. These creatures even eat their own kind!

Or did you mean the Swedish chef in the Muppets?

The rest is just politics - not law

Uh huh. If you really believe in that clean separation, the appropriate response is a pat on the head. But I bet you don't.

We can use the conservative media to demonize (Bork is one of the most respected judges in America & its best legal mind) whoever the Dems put up if they get in office.

You act as though this isn't precisely what will happen, regardless.

Let's not be coy and pretend that the conservative media needs the excuse of Robert Bork to demonize anyone they consider to be insufficiently conservative, or have we forgotten that Harriet Miers' nomination was largely shot down because conservative pundits threw a hissy-fit because her conservative credentials didn't meet their sense of ideological purity?

Some free advice, Fritz. If you're going to make a threat, it has to be believable that would do otherwise, or do you really think that the O'Reiley's, Hannity's, and Coulter's of the world are going to passively accept a liberal nominee in the name of some theoretical tradition that candidates should be accepted so long as the President is satisfied with their qualifications?

As to Bork's qualifications, I will stand by the contention that, given his public statements in the intervening time, I'm rather relieved that he didn't make the grade.

Fitz and sam (and Ross), people get to be on the Supreme Court when they are nominated by the president and confirmed by the Senate.

The president has political considerations in mind when he nominates people.

The Senate is not required to confirm all of the president's political nominees.

I don't understand the rationale for pretending that voting "no" is some extremist act.

There's an implication in Ross post that Obama's habitual "engagement prior to rejection" approach to conservative adversaries is insincere. I am assuming that Ross has in mind the right blogosphere's contention that Obama has rarely reached across the aisle to formulate solutions in his real short Senate term, and is doing his bit to add a little bit of evidence to that meme. It's a rather partisan thing to do, but it is OK to be a partisan, isn't it?

Which brings us to the commentariat who seem anxious to apply the label "Rethuglican Hack" to our host. The post is partisan, but it's not real hackery. Ross does have reasons for his acidly express point of view, doesn't he? Hacks usually rely on nothing but their well-honed sense of invective, and stock assumptions aout the evil of the other side.

Here's a challenge to the opponents on this issue. When has Obama risen to the challenge of his rhetoric of unity, and reached across the aisle to his Republican collegues to accomplish something important? If he hasn't had the opportunity to do this in the Senate, did he do it in the Illinois legislature?

Anyone have any thoughts? (Hint -- I believe the Washington Monthly looked into this issue a while back....)

When has Obama risen to the challenge of his rhetoric of unity, and reached across the aisle to his Republican collegues to accomplish something important? If he hasn't had the opportunity to do this in the Senate, did he do it in the Illinois legislature?

Those issues are addressed, thoroughly, in this post. Read the whole thing, but here's a taste:

I follow some issues pretty closely, and over and over again, Barack Obama kept popping up, doing really good substantive things. There he was, working for nuclear non-proliferation and securing loose stockpiles of conventional weapons, like shoulder-fired missiles. There he was again, passing what the Washington Post called "the strongest ethics legislation to emerge from Congress yet" -- though not as strong as Obama would have liked. Look -- he's over there, passing a bill that created a searchable database of recipients of federal contracts and grants, proposing legislation on avian flu back when most people hadn't even heard of it, working to make sure that soldiers returning from Iraq and Afghanistan were screened for traumatic brain injury and to prevent homelessness among veterans, successfully fighting a proposal by the VA to reexamine all PTSD cases in which full benefits had been awarded, working to ban no-bid contracts in Katrina reconstruction, and introducing legislation to criminalize deceptive political tactics and voter intimidation. And there he was again, introducing a tech plan ... And it turns out that Obama does achieve results by working with Republicans, and doesn't tend to compromise on core principles.

Read the whole thing? I don't think AM reads what Ross actually says half the time.

AM,

I wonder if you are actually Ross, because you seem to have a window into his soul, which frees you from actually reading his posts.

Or the comments. The only place "Rethuglican Hack" appears is in your comment, and now this one. Shouldn't quotes be used for something someone actually said?

James:

The word "hack" is used pretty constantly in the thread. No Rethuglican, but Repiglican turns up.

Elvis -- I'll get to yours in a bit (rather a long read -- a good thing)

I'm not quite sure what "Appalled Moderate" is looking for here, but there actually is a paper trail of real substantive (and succesful) bipartisanship on Obama's part. For example

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303303.html

http://obsidianwings.blogs.com/obsidian_wings/2008/02/obama-actually.html

Granted quite a bit of his bipartisanship were in the Illinois state legislature or involved less sexy issues (which were always McCain's "maverick" stock in trade) but there is verifiable evidence that many lawmakers that have served personally with Obama consider him to be someone who will reach across the aisle.

I particularly like the last paragraph from the following set of paragraphs from a WaPo article on Obama's bipartisanship written just before he announced he was running

--

Yet he emerged as a leader while still in his 30s by developing a style former colleagues describe as methodical, inclusive and pragmatic. He cobbled together legislation with Republicans and conservative Democrats, making overtures other progressive politicians might consider distasteful.

Along the way, he played an important role in drafting bipartisan ethics legislation and health-care reform. He overcame law enforcement objections to codify changes designed to curb racial profiling and to make capital punishment, which he favors, more equitable.

"When you come in, especially as a freshman, and work on something like ethics reform, it's not necessarily a way to endear yourself to some of the veteran members of the Illinois General Assembly," said state Sen. Kirk W. Dillard, a Republican who became a friend. "And working on issues like racial profiling was contentious, but Barack had a way both intellectually and in demeanor that defused skeptics."

"He wasn't a maverick," said Cynthia Canary, director of the Illinois Campaign for Political Reform. "There were other legislators I would turn to if I just wanted to make a lot of noise. That wasn't his style."

---

The rest is here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/08/AR2007020802262_pf.html

AM,

Oh, I used hack in about the fifth post. I said he's increasingly looking like a hack, which I stand by, based on the posts I mentioned.

But, like with Vitter, he's not getting called on it - his posts are viewed like Candide - they must be for the best reasons, because Ross has told us so many times what a religious and decent person he is.

No, they aren't. Pretend they are on Townhall and they will take their actual form - and partisan hackery is inevitable; it's just the sanctimoniousness used to hide it that offends.

Classic Ross Douthat

Let me get this straight. Obama does some chin rubbing and end up at the partisan position; vote against Roberts.

A couple of days ago Ross Douthat did some chin rubbing and came to the partisan position; it's OK to vote against people with unsavory private lives, except not in McCain's case.

http://rossdouthat.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/06/the_character_issue.php

I would be interested to know. Does Ross generally believe conspicuous rumination is a good way to put a fancy dress on partisanship? Or should that privilege be restricted to conservatives? Does he think we don't notice?

Tomtom,

look at half the posts - they don't notice. They think it's sincere.

Actually, Obama supposedly wanted to vote for Roberts but his staff told him not to (what if he overturned Roe, then opponents could throw it up to him in a primary). So that's what happened there... on the other hand, his remarks about how he would appoint judges are pretty disturbing. He's said that "we need somebody who's got the heart, the empathy, to recognize what it's like to be a young teenage mom. The empathy to understand what it's like to be poor, or African-American, or gay, or disabled, or old. And that's the criteria by which I'm going to be selecting my judges."

If one analyzes the post by Hilzoy that Elsberg recommends to prove Obama's considerable record, the only substantive Obama accomplishments are in Illinois a campaign finance bill and another that requires videotaping of criminal interrogations and confessions. In Washington he got through a bill requiring a searchable database for recipients of federal contracts. and the Lugar-Obama bill that authorized $48 million to destroy conventional weapons stockpiles, intercept weapons of mass destruction and respond to proliferation emergencies. Actually on this bill Obama played a minor role in what was originally a Lugar-Nunn bill.

None of these issues are of major significance, nor did they prove to be seriously controversial in a way that would cost Obama the sort of political scars that McCain is covered with. Obama didn't see fit to favor the bi-partisan proposal that somewhat solved the problem of federal judicial appointments.

The notion that Obama has any serious political accomplishments and that he is a thoughtful centrist who will bring "change" to Washington is essentially a delusion based more on hope than reality.

For an amusing video of a poltician hopelessly trying to answer a simple question from Chris Matthews about Obama's accomplishments see here.

Sooner or later sensible Americans will realize that Obama is long on frothy rhetoric and short on substance.

Petey leavitts again: "Sooner or later sensible Americans will realize that Obama is long on frothy rhetoric and short on substance."

I'd say that's at least the 10th time Petey has used the "frothy rhetoric" line on Obama. Poor Petey must have heard Hugh Hewitt use the phrase and it's stuck in his thick parrot-like noggin.

Just take the middle s and the b out of "sensible" and you have the perfect word for Petey - senile. Petey is supporting his fellow senile-American John McCain for president, which in and of itself is a good reason to vote for Obama.

Check out the confirmation votes for Scalia (a much more controversial justice than Roberts) For that matter check out the votes for Ginsburg & Breyer.

Not only were Ginsburg and Breyer picked after consultation with Republicans (something the misogynist Republican base will not allow of their presidents), but Scalia's confirmation was at the same time as Rehnquist's elevation to Chief Justice, and the Democrats stupidly decided to fight Rehnquist instead of Scalia.

Moe, why don't you explain to us Obama's alleged professional accomplishments, instead of objecting to my repeated remarks about the reality of Obama's dubious rhetoric? Should you attempt this, try to avoid the usual crude vulgarian juvenility.

Petey Leavitt replies: "Moe, why don't you explain to us Obama's alleged professional accomplishments, instead of objecting to my repeated remarks about the reality of Obama's dubious rhetoric?"

There's no point in explaining anything to you. Petey, because you're no longer capable of learning. I will say that Obama is a vastly superior candidate in every conceivable way to the fucking shitbag that you morons vouched for in 2000 and 2004 - a human tapeworm who still has no known accomplishments.

After Obama is inaugurated I'm going to write to him about the possibility of mandating that you (and only you) be forced to enter into a gay marriage. We'll hunt down some priapic bull-hung porn star for you and film your wedding night (and your non-stop sobbing) for free DVD distribution all over the country.

So lose a few pounds, you're gonna be a star.

Obama came from modest roots and accomplished the following:

1. Graduted Columbia & Harvard Law magna cum laude
2. President of Harvard Law Review
3. Wrote widely respected, subtle, and complex Dreams from My Father
4. Director of DCP (church-based comunity organisation) and grew it very rapidly (he was 24 when he got the job)
5. Ran voter registration drive of hundreds successfully registering over one-third of unregistered black voters in IL
6. Attorney at Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland
Law professor at the University of Chicago
7. Served on the IL state legislature, widely respected for ability to work across the aisle
8. US senator Foreign Relations Committees, Environment and Public Works
9. Obtained Democratic Party nomination with an insurgency campaign victory over the formidable Clinton machine. This campaign is considered by many to be revolutionary in its methods and success (extremely effective delegate strategy, broke all fund-raising records, broke all records for number of donors, showed extreme discipline planning and executing in more states than any campaign in decades)

The man is 46 He is extraordinarily accomplished!

I have one question for those trying to present him as unaccomplished:

Did you vote for George W. Bush?

'nuf said

This argument is not about accomplishments or ability. Obama is an extraordinary candidate with intellectual and political gifts that far outshine McCain.

No politics in the supreme court, how dare anyone suggest:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/13/washington/12cnd-gitmo.html?hp

"The dissenters were Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. and Justices Samuel A. Alito Jr., Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas, generally considered the conservative wing on the tribunal."

Meant to include this quote from Roberts:

'And Chief Justice Roberts said the majority had struck down “the most generous set of procedural protections ever afforded aliens detained by this country as enemy combatants."'

James, do you have anything solid contra to Robert's assertion that the Jihadi enemy combatants have received the most generous set of procedural ever afforded alien non-combatants.

Roosevelt during WWII consigned some German non-combatants, who were landed by a submarine on Long Island including one technically American citizen, quickly to a military judicial commission which judged them guilty and had them executed.

The left including those on the Supreme Court is living in a dream world that is trying to make nice to a vicious set of enemies.

It is classic Obama. High-minded, nice sounding rhetoric, but hard-left liberalism all the way.

Peter,

I'm not going to play that game of trying to prove a negative, when the point was that the four votes were all conservative judges, and that Roberts comments, and especially Scalia's, were not balanced and about the decision, but purely political.

If the previous situation resulted in summary execution than yes, the current situation is more generous. It's not really the point. Habeas corpus was, but I doubt you are bothered about the law in this case except as an instrument of policy.

Which was the point of this post, that Supreme Court appointees are in Ross's mind somehow apolitical. The fact that you said "The left including those on the Supreme Court" shows you don't believe that they are neutral any more than Ross does.

to a vicious set of enemies.

Do some research on begging the question.

"Because I said so" is never an acceptable answer to "how do we know he/she did it?"

No, you're right, we shouldn't need to actually, you know, prove anything before we lock people up. Proof has a well known liberal pro-terrorist ANTI-AMERICAN bias. Why DO I hate America?

James, I quite agree that there is a political element in Supreme Court appointments.That's why I'm roting for and contributing substantially to McCain.

Pooh, these enemy combatant get a chance to make a case before a military court with a process that Chief Justice Roberts regards as the most generous set of procedural protections ever afforded aliens detained by this country as enemy combatants. As to why you hate America, good question. Probably it's due to your naive view that since America is, as most nations, fallen and imperfect, it is evil.

A search at opensecrets.org reveals that no one with the last name Leavitt has donated to John McCain in 2008. Maybe your check bounced, Petey, or maybe they don't take empty bottles.

Moe, one doesn't have to contribute directly and publicly to McCain. The smart way to contribute large sums to a candidate is through PACs, ironically made necessary by one of MCCain's stupidest mistakes, known as McCain-Feingold. McCain's worst quality is a certain bourgeois need to seem virtuous among the hoi polloi.

You can also look up PAC contributions at opensecrets.org and the only Peter Leavitt who has contributed anything to any group or candidate in 2008 gave $2300 to Joe Biden.

Petey has a lot of awful qualities, but his need for baseless and unsupported bragging about himself is amusing. Did you know he personally gave Jack Ruby cancer?

Moe, I would be the last one to contribute anything to Joe Biden. However, the way to contribute to PACs privately is through corporate contributions. Talk to Soros about this.

Hold up here, are people on this blog really so dishonest as to suggest that the Republican Congress under Bush was anything less than partisan? Really? Really?

Pooh, these enemy combatant get a chance to make a case before a military court with a process that Chief Justice Roberts regards as the most generous set of procedural protections ever afforded aliens detained by this country as enemy combatants.

Well, I'm glad THAT'S settled. It's not like we have any evidence that these are more or less show trials where a finding of innocence is never to even be contemplated. Er, what?

As to why you hate America, good question. Probably it's due to your naive view that since America is, as most nations, fallen and imperfect, it is evil.

So you actually are dense enough to not pick up on sarcasm I applied with a putty knife. Useful knowledge.

But, seriously, given your position on this matter, the better question is why do YOU hate America, or at least the Constitution.

Pooh asks Petey: "But, seriously, given your position on this matter, the better question is why do YOU hate America, or at least the Constitution."

It's because Petey is a pure asshole who would fit in exceptionally well under a fascist government. He's like Sean Hannity's cranky father, the one who made Sean beat up crippled kids to make sure he didn't have an ounce of decency left in him.

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