« Paleoconservatism and Practical Politics | Main | Tony Snow, RIP »

Bishirjian Continued

16 Jul 2008 12:12 pm

Larison writes, of this post:

It’s a little disappointing that of all the insightful points Mr. Bishirjian made about the threat of centralisation and regimentation to a sane and humane social order Ross finds the references to a flat tax and some kind of education reform to be the most interesting.

Actually, the fact that Bishirjian's essay made many theoretical points with which I agreed was precisely why I thought his completely unimaginative, Limbavian proposals for what conservatives ought to actually do were worth highlighting.

Larison goes on:

The link is to the NYT profile of Limbaugh, which includes his six-point list that overlaps in some places with policies Mr. Bishirjian supports. What is notable about this and Ross’ ongoing spat with Limbaugh is that when it comes to practical politics Limbaugh and Ross are effectively in agreement about what the government should be doing far more often than Bishirjian and Limbaugh are. Limbaugh may nonsensically complain that Ross and Reihan want to embrace the New Deal, as if the GOP hadn’t already abandoned overturning that agenda decades ago, but for all practical purposes Limbaugh generally proposes very little (except perhaps for Social Security privatisation) that could be fairly described as being in any way anti-New Deal.

Bishirjian is proposing a thoroughgoing repeal of the centralised administrative state that has grown up over the last century, but while he is making many proposals that might find an audience in conventional GOP circles he is also making a fundamentally communitarian case for building up intermediate institutions that would probably give Limbaugh hives.

I apologize for being somewhat reductionist here, but while I take Daniel's point, I think that conservatism - and especially its dissident factions - could benefit from fewer airy discussions of the ideal conservative social order, and more meat-and-potatoes discussions of what a renewed conservative movement that flowed from these first principles would actually be for. As a result, I don't have that much patience for sweeping calls for a "thoroughgoing repeal of the centralised administrative state" when those calls are wedded to a specific domestic policy agenda that is more or less identical to what Rush Limbaugh is already urging on the GOP. If Bishirjian had ended his essay simply by calling, as some other dissident-conservative writers have, for a depoliticization of the conservative movement, and a renewed focus on cultural activism and "building up intermediate institutions" that can eventually contest with the administrative state for influence, I would have disagreed with him, but I would have respected him for proposing an actual alternative to the current conservative mindset. But in point of fact, he marries very general calls for a renewed conservative communitarianism with a few very specific policy suggestions - a flat tax, Social Security privatization, and a reduction of the capital gains tax rate - that strike me as profoundly unhelpful to conservatives in their current situation, either because they're impractical or because they have very little to do with the broader state-shrinking project he claims to be engaged in. (An administrative state funded entirely by a flat tax would, I suspect, look exactly like the one we have today, except the tax burden would be more regressive.) Hence my frustration with the essay.

Comments (10)

One intermediate institution that could really use some build-up is King's Dominion. Granted, Dr. Pepper is doing its part by offering a $20 mail-in rebate on tickets. But until we defund the Park Service, communitarians can't rest easy.

One of the more frustrating things about the reception of your book is the cheap sloganeering used as a counter argument. While some of the policy prescriptions I would consider to be poor policy, at least you and Salam bother showing up to the debate. Many of the critics are just nihilists wearing libertarian fig leafs. They also seem to believe that the best way to save the middle class is to kill it. (None of this is really referencing Larison, but rather some of his fellow travelers.)

Follow me and tax flat. Leviticus 27:30

I see two problems with “Ross’” proposed anti-Limbaugh conservatism:

If big government activism is what the electorate truly wants (which I’m not convinced of) then transforming the GOP into liberalism-lite will not win elections. If urban independent voters have a choice between big spending liberals and republican pretenders to the “big government throne”, they will choose liberals who are much more practiced at building large inefficient bureaucracies, and less psychologically conflicted by it. Not only will we have abandoned our principles, but we will get beaten in a big government “arms race” that conservatives can never win. Just as liberals usually cannot “out-patriot” (excuse the term) conservatives as John Kerry found out in 2004.

Elections are won by convincing people that what you believe is correct, not by pandering to what was perceived to be the election winning position. Reagan hammered home the point that despite all of government’s efforts to solve problems government itself was the problem. That idea was not intuitively obvious in 1980. Reagan and the GOP had to make the case. The Reagan revolution was built not by pandering to the big government desires of the middle class, but by showing them that no matter how much they may want entitlements and handouts from the government, these programs only made things worse

The only principle you articulate DRU is that government is the least preferred means of bringing about the common good. That same principle leads you to murder Reagan's biography, and I'm no Reaganphile. It isn't a governing philosophy unless you call neglect a governing philosophy.

The only principle you articulate DRU is that government is the least preferred means of bringing about the common good....It isn't a governing philosophy unless you call neglect a governing philosophy.

If the man has come to the conclusion that state agencies perform suboptimally in any realm where philanthropies or commercial companies can and do produce a service (a debatable proposition but not an incoherent one), why is his judgment a counsel of 'neglect'?

The Reagan revolution was built not by pandering to the big government desires of the middle class, but by showing them that no matter how much they may want entitlements and handouts from the government, these programs only made things worse.

The Reagan revolution was far more clever than you give it credit for. It completely pandered to the big government desires of the middle class, while blaming government for their problems and cutting taxes. Name one middle class entitlement program that Reagan even attempted to cut. To quote Cheney, "Reagan proved deficits don't matter."

The administration's initial public proposal for a general reform of income taxes in 1985 incorporated the elimination of nearly all deductions and exemptions, provisions primarily beneficial to the more affluent 40% of the population.

My memory may be tricking me, but I believe that in 1981 or 1982 the administration did float a proposal (prepared by David Stockman) for cuts in Social Security benefits. Per Jack Beatty, who interviewed him later, Speaker O'Neill regarded anxiety over Social Security benefits as the issue most proper and useful to emphasize during the 1982 federal elections, as the public held the Democratic Party partially responsible for the abnormally high unemployment rates that year.

Mr. Reagan also suggested in 1984 eliminating the mortgage interest deduction as part of a general simplification of federal taxes. Mr. Mondale made a certain amount of hay about this.

"The only principle you articulate DRU is that government is the least preferred means of bringing about the common good."

Neglect? Sir it is not the role of government to put food in your mouth. Governments role is to protect life, liberty, and property. The government is not capable of being a nanny for the "little guy." The next time you stand on line for 3 hours being NEGLECTED at your state's Department of Motor Vehicles, I want you to remind yourself of how great big government is.

"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master."
-George Washington

By the way, if conservatives are supposed to change their ideas to become more like liberals so that we can win elections, why don't we just start voting for liberal candidates in the Democratic party?

We couldn't possible "lose" then now could we?

Ross, maybe principles matter more than elections do. Maybe conservatism is really about CONSERVING principles of limited goverment and the free market economy that have existed since John Locke and Adam Smith and have built western civilization.. Maybe it can't be changed, otherwise you wouldn't be CONSERVING principles but CHANGING them (i.e. Obama)

On the other hand if am supposed to care more about winning, than I do about political principles, then all conservatives have to do is vote with liberal democrats for the liberal candidate, and we can feel like "winners" immediately. After all the guy we chose won the "election". I didnt have to write a book for that.

Maybe that can be the basis for the new non-"Limbavian" Conservatism. We literally can't lose right? (sarcasm)


Copyright © 2008 by The Atlantic Monthly Group. All rights reserved.