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Cameronism and Grand New Party

08 Jul 2008 04:59 pm

Needless to say, I found a lot to like in this speech, which David Cameron just delivered in Glasgow. Andrew, though, thinks it sets up a striking contrast with our book:

I'm struck, in contrast to R&R, how restrained Cameron is. His policy prescriptions - more autonomy at the bottom of public services, more accountability within the public sector, a gentle tax incentive for marriage - are more in line with traditional conservatism than wage subsidies, for example.

Honestly, I think this is a bit silly. Yes, we have some proposals in Grand New Party - wage subsidies being the biggest example - that go beyond what Cameron's Tories have proposed, but there are also plenty of areas where the Tory Party (which operates in a vastly different political landscape than the American Republican Party, obviously) is considerably to our left - and to Andrew's, presumably - on taxation, spending and welfare policy. As for that "gentle" tax incentive for marriage ... well, let's look at what the Cameron Tories are actually proposing: A tax allowance of roughly £1000 a year for parents who stay home with their kids, front-loaded per-child tax benefits that offer parents £2800 a year while their kids are below the age of three, and increased tax credits for low-income parents, which would offer 1.8 million British couples roughly £1600 a week a year [sorry, typo]. Translate those pounds into dollars, and those population figures into an American context, and you've got a set of proposals that might be slightly less pricey than the $5000-per-child tax credit and the (fiscally unspecific) notions of benefits for stay-at-home parents we propose, but that are certainly in the same general ballpark - and that actually go further than our basic proposals (though not our ideal ones) in terms of directly discriminating in favor of marriage. I understand that Andrew wants to like the Cameron Tories, and that he's suspicious of some of the ideas Reihan and I have put forward (and they merit suspicion!), but the notion that Cameronism is way closer to some platonic ideal of "traditional conservatism" than what we're talking about in Grand New Party just won't wash.

Update: See also Reihan's remarks on the subject, especially his observation that "if Cameron embraced an agenda like the one outlined in Grand New Party, he would likely be accused of being a libertarian radical hellbent on destroying the most cherished parts of Britain’s welfare state."

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Comments (26)

there are also plenty of areas where the Tory Party (which operates in a vastly different political landscape than the American Republican Party, obviously) is considerably to our left - and to Andrew's, presumably - on taxation, spending and welfare policy.

You seem to be laboring under the delusion that Andrew Sullivan has any fixed ethical, moral or political principles.

1600 pounds a week can't be right - that's way above median income.

1600 pounds a week can't be right - that's way above median income.

Yeah, if this is the new face of British conservatism sign me up--I'll take $150,000 a year to marry a Brit and have some kids.

Huh?, Andrew is already married I think. Sorry.

I'm not an economist, but I think the argument could be made that tax credits are less distortionary than wage subsidies. Whether that is what Andrew was thinking, I'm not sure; just throwing it out there.

Huh?, Andrew is already married I think. Sorry.

Crap. We could've been a same-sex Tracy-and-Hepburn.

How is "tax credits for parents who stay home" any different from AFDC? Where are all the welfare-to-work conservatives decrying this dependence on the state?

Enjoy my tiny rivulets of thought!

Given that rivulets is a 'small stream', then the tiny is somewhat redundant, as are you.

But it's far better than 'I am a productive member of society', which wasn't funny with Moe either.

So it's Moe, Ferrell and me who are being impersonated. I would imagine that's the only thing all three of us have in common.

This is off topic, but I loved the name of the place in Glasgow where Cameron gave his speech: "Gallowgate." Sounds like the title of a good mystery novel.

"You seem to be laboring under the delusion that Andrew Sullivan has any fixed ethical, moral or political principles."

I agree that Ross is delusional for thinking that he can have a serious conversation with Andrew Sullivan about anything. Don't waste your time, Douthat.

"He would likely be accused of being a libertarian radical hellbent on destroying the most cherished parts of Britain’s welfare state."

The term 'libertarian' has been grotesquely and bizarrely appropriated by the American right. Emma Goldman was a libertarian, Prince Kropotkin was a libertarian, Noam Chomsky is a libertarian.

I'm not sure what you folks are, but you're not libertarians. Cruel, heartless neoliberals, maybe.

James - for once I agree with you.

Adrian - I'm not well versed in the history of "libertarian," but Noam Chomsky shouldn't be described without the term "moonbat" referenced somewhere.

British Tories are fortunately nothing like the extremist conservatives of the US. If they were picked up and transported here most of them would be yellow dog Dems. A few would be Rockefeller Republicans, none would be Tom Delay theocrats.

With the coming Democratic landslide in Nov, I'm almost as excited to see what new direction the GOP will take... It ought to head to the center and run fiscally conservative *competent* under 60 types, but it may well revert to the anti gay bigotry and *socially* theocratic/autocratic style of the far right. I hope not.

The conservatives will need to make the same large steps to the center that the left made twenty years ago, because the racists are dying out and the evangelicals might decide to read some of the bible and realize Obama ain't so bad. Demographics look ridiculously bad also. LOL @ immigration reform, seriously, you screwed that up badly.

Did you actually laugh out loud about immigration reform, TDE? Did you spill your San Pellegrino in the commotion?

Noam Chomsky is a libertarian.

Chomsky has said explicitly that he's not a libertarian. "Chomsky said so" isn't usually an argument that carries much weight with me, but I'm willing to defer to him on this one.

"The term 'libertarian' has been grotesquely and bizarrely appropriated by the American right."

TR: Not exactly. The word "Libertarianism" for decades has meant someone who favors maximized liberty and minimized government. This can mean anarcho-socialists who favor an egalitarian cooperative world without governments, militaries, corporations, etc. However "Right-libertarianism" that emphasizes individualism and competition has existed for decades and is a valid use of the term.

The only thing "bizarre" is that in the US libertarian only means "Right-Libertarian." (In America a "Libertarian Socialist" is called an anarcho-socialist or more often simply called an anarchist) Also unusual is that in the US a person can deem themselves "Libertarian" while loving military discipline and supporting the right of large corporations to restrict employee rights,

>

Many times, really. However, I don't know wtf San Pellegrino is.

San Pellegrino is a brand of mineral water favored by Europeans and dastardly liberal elitists when we aren't too busy sipping lattes and hating America.

Frankly, if I were you, I'd be too ashamed to show my face in public after this withering rebuke from famed folk singer Gordon Lightfoot. To suggest that you would drink effete sparkling water instead of a soda with manly government-subsidized corn syrup! Oh, the shame!

That makes some sense then, I guessed wine... but whatever.

Doesn't Gordon know that in Europe most of the true 'elites' are the conservatives, and that liberalism (as he understands it) has always been a push back against said elites? Cameron went to Eaton ffs.

In the US 'elite' seems to be a slur and applied to anyone who's finished college or more than two books. That's self destructive behaviour.

but there are also plenty of areas where the Tory Party (which operates in a vastly different political landscape than the American Republican Party, obviously) is considerably to our left - and to Andrew's, presumably - on taxation, spending and welfare policy.

One example is that the modern Tories don't hate teh gays the way you and Salam do. Btw, I'm still waiting for your comparative statics proof about how banning gay marriage will bolster middle class wages. Ask Megan for help with the math; she has an MBA, so I suspect can do the first partial derivatives, though I doubt she could derive the Hessian.

The only thing "bizarre" is that in the US libertarian only means "Right-Libertarian." (In America a "Libertarian Socialist" is called an anarcho-socialist or more often simply called an anarchist) Also unusual is that in the US a person can deem themselves "Libertarian" while loving military discipline and supporting the right of large corporations to restrict employee rights,

Not sure how that was supposed to end, but the sentiment is correct. Take McArdle as a perfect example. She wouldn't care if the government attached a GPS chip to her hoo-hoo as long as her taxes were low. She'd only profess ignorance as to an opinion, other than to note that it would reduce the dead-weight loss if the government used private contractors to track her.

To extend the gay aspect:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/conservative/1580567/Tory-MP-Alan-Duncan-to-enter-civil-partnership.html

"Mr Duncan, 50, an MP since 1992, will be the first member of the Cabinet or shadow cabinet to have entered into a legal partnership with a same-sex partner.

Mr Cameron, who embraced same-sex relationships in his first party conference speech as leader, told The Daily Telegraph last night that he was "thrilled" for Mr Duncan."

He told The Daily Telegraph: "I am absolutely delighted for Alan and James, and wish them all the very best."

You can so easily imagine Bush or McCain making such statements.

And Cameron would like the time limit on abortion lowered, but even if he did want to outlaw it, he wouldn't dare to even suggest it.

You can so easily imagine Bush or McCain making such statements.

Actually, I suspect they'd apply the Cheney standard: Embrace them in private and pillory them in public. Love the sinner, hate the sin, and all that, especially if we can get some votes out of it.

In America, elitists spell behavior correctly.

So it's basically warmed over Edward Heath; i'll give them 4 years at the most. It is only aggressive regimes like Thatcher, Churchill,
Salisbury that really hold on for long periods of time.

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