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Running on the Surge (II)

08 Jul 2008 09:23 am

Via Andrew, here's a rough version of the sort of ad I think the GOP nominee ought to be running - though it isn't McCain-specific, and as a result it's focused on "staying the course" rather than "who do you trust?," which is the question McCain will win the election on if he manages to win it:

Meanwhile, Matt thinks the notion of running on the surge is a "little bit crazy." He writes:

The smart Iraq strategy for McCain is the one he was using before the current "Obama's a flip-flopper" tactic came into vogue, namely one that's less focused on lying about Obama and more focused on telling big lies rather than small ones. It's absolutely vital for McCain to repeat, loudly and falsely, that there's a very good chance of al-Qaeda taking over Iraq and using it as a base from which to attack the American homeland and that Obama believes he can appease al-Qaeda by giving them Iraq. He needs to say lots of stuff about how "unlike my opponent, I don't think al-Qaeda will be satisfied with Iraq; unlike him I remember what happened the last time we allowed them to take over a country."

The lie on which the war was initially sold, and the lie on which it retained its popularity, was that the war was directly necessary for U.S. national security in a very simple and straightforward sense. That required, yes, some whoppers but they were whoppers about the sort of thing (preventing a WMD terrorist attack on American soil) that would constitute a good reason for starting a war. All this "success of the surge" business is incredibly abstract and totally disconnect from anything real people care about -- I can tell you which Americans have died because of the surge, but I have no idea which Americans are supposed to have benefited from it.

Setting aside the "is McCain lying about Obama?" question - while noting for the record that the Democratic nominee has flip-flopped a great deal of late, and that he did support a rapid withdrawal from Iraq during the period when AQI's influence in that country was at its height - I think Matt makes a good broad point: Forward-looking arguments about specific potential dangers to the U.S. tend to be more potent than backward-looking arguments about dangers that have been averted. The question is whether the rule holds in this particular instance, and I'm just not convinced it does: I think McCain's ownership of the surge is a unique political case, and that having staked his career on a strategy that very few other politicians supported he simply has to make his (apparent, possibly temporary) vindication the centerpiece of his campaign. Obviously, McCain can make forward-looking and backward-looking arguments at once: He can take credit for the recent improvements in Iraq while simultaneously warning of the dangers that would follow from a swift withdrawal. The question is where he puts the emphasis, and I remain convinced that emphasizing the surge, and the successes that seem to have flowed from it, sets up a stronger contrast with Obama than talking incessantly about the future dispositions of U.S. forces in Iraq - an arena where Obama can, and will, blur the differences between the two candidates in a way he can't if the debate focuses on the recent past.

And yes, Matt's of course correct that framing the argument this way requires persuading the American public that the stability of Iraq ought to matter to us for reasons (both strategic and moral) that go beyond the immediate risk of terrorist attacks in the U.S. homeland. But frankly if John McCain can't make that case then he isn't going to win the election anyway, so he might as well give it a shot.

Comments (38)

No, you dumb fuck, no.

"Stay the course" by the Manchurian candidate who was POW for years - what other model is this but Vietnam?

as said earlier - he supported the surge, but that's only partially fixed a huge problem which the war itself caused. How on earth does this prove his sound judgment over not going to war in the first place.

with these (I) (II) (III) posts like with Legacy and morality and so on, you are exactly like Bush and now McCain. You come up with something incredibly fucking stupid, then instead of realizing this, you double down on the stupidity, hoping that perservance will win out over intelligence, and someone else blinks first.

This ad seems really weak tea to me. 'Finish the job' sounds great, but is semantically very close to 'bring the troops home.' At least McCain's vague-if-not-empty term 'victory' *sounds* like a contrast. Does 'finishing the job' include, for example, building permanent bases?

Running on the surge can be evaluated with a simple thought experiment: what if we had surge-level troops, surge-level violence, and a surge-level political situation in Iraq from the 2003 invasion till now. How would the candidates' relative advantages on Iraq look?

Matt,

big problem with that thought experiment.

Obama didn't support the war in the first place.

McCain not only did, but supported Rumsfeld for much longer than he is claiming now.

McCain could have put forward such an idea re surge levels way back at the start. There's no doubt if he had said so, even if it wasn't acted on, it would have been a huge story, and created the chance of it being better managed. He didn't.

The current situation is very poor considering when the war started. It's only because until recently it's been so appalling that it looks 'ok'.

James (second one -- the first guy I don't know what to say to), I think that's not addressing Ross' point. You're telling me why McCain's running on his association with the surge is potentially fragile under scrutiny. I think Ross agrees that McCain has vulnerabilities there. But basically his writing on McCain and campaign strategies has revolved around, look, McCain is losing this thing. And if he wants t have any chance of winning he needs to embrace certain risky or dubious strategies -- and "running on the surge" is risky because of the vulnerabilities you point out. But I think there's strengths in it too (which Ross hits). And so it's weak tea, but, probably as good a strategy as McCain has.

Ross,

Your insistence that Obama has flip-flopped is linked to a news commentary article that also insists that Obama has flip-flopped. I think there's no question that his position on FISA is not even so much a flip-flop as an out-and-out reversal. That's a point I can't find anyone willing to defend.

But the rest, well, it's pretty weak. As Matt and Ezra and others have documented, Obama isn't saying anything substantively different than what he's said for the past year about Iraq withdrawal. As for public financing campaigns (aside from the fact that this is entirely the correct call), the situation in the campaign is drastically different than a year ago. True, Obama sees that he can raise far more money and be competitive, but we have seen also McCain refuse to control in any way independent groups, even as Obama is working to marginalize outside groups that would support him (like MoveOn). Add to this the fact that McCain is currently bending (though more likely blatantly breaking) public financing laws right now, and you'd have to say Obama would be a first class dupe to hold to a "pledge" that only serves the interests of his opponent.

If this campaign could truly be financed on a level playing field, with all parties sharing equal time to get their voices out, but (and this is my own take) with media outlets merely reprinting McCain campaign talking points as if they were true when they are, you know, lies and fantasy, the idea that Obama would be entering into a truly publicly financed campaign is simply another bit of spin.

In contrast, what is the justification for all the many, many political posturings of McCain? Obama is no saint in this regard. He is being a shrewd politician, but compared to McCain's wholesale abandonment of independent principles in the interest of his election, Obama appears to be a pillar of constancy.

Sanjay,

I did both posts.

It's an incredibly dumb idea, because he's saying that I supported something which partially fixed a gigantic fuck-up, but we need to stay there for the foreseeable future, and you can only trust me.

And going on about the surge cannot draw attention to one of Obamas killer advantages; he was against the war from the start. If HRC had voted against, I doubt Obama would have even run this year. He would have just bided his time and maybe even took a VP slot.

It's not like McCain was anti the war, then supporting the troops but critical of the strategy, then supporting the surge. Until it got completely untenable, he was supporting everything Bush did.

McCain's military service does not in any shape mean he is somehow the 'man' to fix these things, regardless of it being at best mediocre prior to POW status. I'm surprised no one points out the JFK/PTE parallel.

George Bush senior had a much better military record, at least matching McCain in bravery, and easily surprassing him in basic competence, and has been shown pretty shrewd in the Gulf War actions, save troops in Saudi Arabia.

And it's not enough to support the troops. He's meant to be President, which means he is on the side of the nation as a whole, and the military though important, must always be secondary.

If Ike is regarded as average to good now (I'm assuming this - I think he's somewhat underrated), with all his experience, I'm not sure what McCain offers.

Really, the best parallel is not Ike, but Patton. Their actions, honor system, family background is much closer.

Patton wanting to go and stick it to Russia while they were wounded is much closer to McCain. Whether you agree Patton was right is another question.

There is two chances McCain has: one is the terrorist angle, with the hope of a scare or two.

The other is the open secret re Iran.

Otherwise, barring an unforced error or revelation by Obama, he's done. The sad truth for the Republican party is that if it was any other candidate, it would be far worse.

I disagree with your point about future plans for U.S. forces in Iraq. Obama has no interest in blurring differences on future force allocations, only in sharpening them. McCain's looking to keep U.S. forces at significant levels in Iraq for years to come, the Bush model, a sharp contrast to Obama's plans to redeploy foreces to Afghanistan.

In the last two days the Iraqi PM and Nat'l Security Advisor have both called for withdrawal schedules for coalition forces. How will McCain argue against the Iraqis "standing up" and taking control of their country's defense?

James, it appears your Tourette's medication didn't kick in until after your first post.

Ross has been clear on his opposition to the war. The point of the post stands - McCain's judgment on the surge is (at least for now)vindicated, and he should run on it. That's fine that you dispute getting into the war in the first place, but that's a separate argument.

Can someone please clarify what the 'surge' is?

If it's merely the increase in troop numbers under Petraeus, than it probably didn't do the trick. Troop levels increase in brigade and battalion areas of responsibility (AORs) during every relief in place of the unit that's already there. Having more US troops, fresher US troops, in a given AOR usually results in a SPIKE in enemy activity if anything. Eager beaver commanders go out and stir shit up in their new AOR, more patrols go out to "find the terrists" and detain large numbers of "suspected insurgents", and the result is predictably a pissed off population that responds with more IED's, rocket and mortar attacks, and suicide bombings/VBIEDs. The heavier the US footprint, the greater the insurgency. Once the unit literally settles down and realizes the folly of its ways, things usually get quieter.

The surge in troop strength was not the source of depressed enemy activity. It was the following -
- Red on red violence (Sunni tribal infighting in Anbar and North Babil, Shia political infighting between Badr Brigade folks and the Office of Muqtada al Sadr)
- Anbar Awakening: paying off Sunni insurgents and hiring them as coalition affiliated security
- Ethnic 'cleansing' and barricades at the block/neighborhood level in Baghdad
- Pre election positioning by the Sadrists: they're keeping quiet before the elections

If the 'surge' is meant to encompass all of the above in addition to the troop increase under Petraeus, than I guess you could claim that it worked. But I highly doubt that McCain was in favor of colluding with Sunni insurgents that were previously responsible for up to 90% of our casualties in Anbar, N. Babil, Baghdad, and Diyala in order to sue for peace. And since he clearly didn't have any control over the other elements of the "surge" then it seems like a bad idea for him to latch onto the surge when making a case for his candidacy.

*Qualification on earlier comment - yes, to a point an increase in troops will suppress enemy activity. But the way it's done in Iraq doesn't account for the depressed violence there. During the height of the Surge as new units were hitting the ground and establishing smaller patrol bases and patrolling more heavily violence spiked. After the units that had been surged pulled back and decelerated the frequency/intensity of their kinetic operations, the factors I mentioned above took effect and produced the RELATIVELY suppressed levels of violence that we're 'enjoying' today. A unit by unit analysis of enemy activity by AOR reveals this.

From a strategic standpoint, surging troops into Iraq and then keeping them there when they weren't needed actually made us less safe.

The additional brigades could have been better used in Afghanistan and if they had we might not be experiencing a resurgence of Taliban and actual Al Qaeda activity there. And by the way, AQI is just a propagandist DoD term for dipshit media stooges who gladly swallow whatever the DoD gives them, pro or anti war. Good to see Ross's uncritical and questioning acceptance and usage of the term. Newsflash for Ross: not every Sunni insurgent in Iraq is "AQI" - most aren't - but if we can keep on getting you rubes to use it it'll create the impression that we're fighting Al Qaeda in Iraq, when the reality is that we're arbitrating a messy sectarian and intra-party fight for resources and political power, with no end in sight. I guess when you're trying your damndest to destroy the military though fine points like this shouldn't matter.

Ferrell,

I think you made more sense when you had the cock in your mouth. It seems to focus your attention at least.

Ross is better at mendacity than you because he hides it in looping, pointless paragraphs.

You cannot run on something which you are calling a 'good decision' when that decision is completely and utterly dependent on an earlier, much worse, decision, which you were an important part of.

And it's not me 'opposing' the war. If the war was not a gigantic fuck-up (apologies as you are more offended by swearing than by thousands of lives wasted), then you would not need the surge. it's not the principle, the war is a huge mistake because of the huge incompetence.

The latter decision is only because of the former.

McCain has recently said even in hindsight, the war is the right decision. I don't think (though obviously I don't know) that he qualified it with if it had been correctly run and funded.

Where exactly has Ross been clear in his opposition to the war?

I'm in total agreement with James.

I think John Cole said it best when he compared this post to lauding a shitty doctor for his bang up job with a prosthetic after he encourages an unnecessary amputation.

John McCain helped get us into a war that didn't make us any safer. When things turned bad he decided to double down by endorsing the move to send more troops into the fire. Even after it became clear that increased troop levels in Iraq were having little to no effect on violence there McCain decided to claim that it did, and is being encouraged by people like Ross Douthat (who are clueless not only about Iraq but military operations and counterinsurgency in general) to stake his foreign policy credentials on the Surge.

McCain's views on Iraq are similar to his views re: Vietnam. He really does believe that we could have won, if only we had poured more blood and treasure into the mess. McCain's position on Webb's expanded GI Bill is just another example of his wanton disregard for the health and viability of or our armed forces. I know he had to sit for a few years in the Hanoi Hilton, but why does he have keep on fucking the rest of us over?

I thought i'd made that up the prosthetic bit myself. Unconscious plagiarism perhaps. On one side or the other.

It should go without saying that the troops in Iraq could have been used in Afghanistan. But it's the usual slight of hand for Hawks to ignore that.

It would be nice if there could be some more grown-ups writing in this comment section. Instead of actually using coherent and persuasive arguments, most of these juveniles prefer to just swear at each other. Perhaps a few courses in a local establishment of higher education so that you can have the right words in your vocabulary besides what's available in the local Junior High School.
The military operation in Iraq is old-news more most of the electorate at this point. Unless there is a major flare-up in violence the election will be won or lost on a couple of things. First, the candidate's antidote for a very troubled economy. Secondly, on the candidate's ability to articulate leadership to the American people. Obama was far superior to McCain in the latter until recently. Not because of anything McCain has said but simply because Obama finally ran out of good sermons. Neither seems to have anything remotely relevant to say about the economy so the electorate will likely revert to the default setting in their voting habits.

James,

Just because I've had gay experiences doesn't mean I don't have a valid viewpoint. Andrew Sullivan is able to comment on the war, why shouldn't I?

Dear dfb,

I'm so sorry we offended you by using nasty words, as opposed to the nice man who did the post at the top who tries to justify hundreds of thousands of people dead for no real reason.

It's nice that the worst thing you can think of is our education level, and that should disbar us. If we were high school level, I would imagine a large amount of soldiers would be too. Should they not post comments?

Please, try to be offended by things which are actually offensive.

And I doubt that's Ferrell. It's coherent and polite.

Ferrell,

McCain's judgment on the surge hasn't been vindicated. The surge had little effect on insurgent activity compared to the factors I mentioned up-thread, and a strong case can be made that the surge actually made us less safe and cost us more lives. Why else is Bush trying to pull Petraeus up to the top job at CENTCOM, and why was Fallon let go? It's a move designed to insulate Petraeus from the fallout that's going to come down when the fruits of the Surge are fully realized.

I enjoy cock in many shapes and lengths. Mmmmm...cock.

Dave - tell that to many of the left wing policy analysts who think the surge has contributed to the decrease in violence. If you disagree, then we're at least back to the point that the surge is perceived as successful, and that's to McCain's advantage if he uses it.

That said, I'm skeptical that the surge will have a long term impact if the Iraqi gov't doesn't improve, but it's political capital for now.

Ferrell,

If you are back to it being a success, then it is only a success if prior to that the military operation was a failure.

Which McCain also supported.

Do you want to have some crayons and we can talk tomorrow?

08 Jul 2008 09:23 am
Democratic nominee has flip-flopped a great deal of late, and that he did support a rapid withdrawal from Iraq during the period when AQI's influence in that country was at its height"

25 Jun 2008 10:45 am
I don't think that this point of view was dishonorable and/or treasonous; my own support for the surge was of the deeply lukewarm variety

11 Sep 2007 12:17 pm
I have no confidence that this White House - and possibly even the next one - will ever be willing to take the plunge into the unknown that dramatically reducing troop levels requires. Because that's what it is: A leap in the dark, with the possibility that what comes next will be much, much worse than the awfulness we have now. But it's a plunge we have to take.

Interesting definition of both lukewarm and support there.

Perhaps all Iraq posts should instead be your statement about yourself before you decided you were the GOP's next guru:

a twenty-seven-year old writer who's traveled very little outside the U.S., prefers film criticism to reading Foreign Affairs, and has spent the last year writing a book about domestic political history and public policy.

Would have been better than the garbage you've peddled since.

I am a productive member of society.

That might have worked better if you hadn't used it on moe yesterday.

Frankly, I find Ferrell's facial fuckholes funnier.

Since the surge was always a two part strategery, it remains impossible for 1/2 the populace to evaluate its failure.

They see Part 1, Quelling the Violence, and BINGO! The Surge Worked.

Ignoring that Part 1 was only so Part 2, Enabling a Political Solution, could take place. Which it hasn't, but why do you hate Amerrika and want to surrender when we're winning?

Douthat - as a result it's focused on "staying the course" rather than "who do you trust?," which is the question McCain will win the election on if he manages to win it.

I doubt Iraq will be anywhere near as important as the economy, but with America fed up with Congress and lawyers keeping America in a 30-year gridlock on repairing medicare, repairing our bad infrastructure, failing air transport, failing to get any energy policy ....you won't believe how popular it is to hear soldiers owning Iraq and despite being the ones suffering - committed to stepping up and finishing a job that a mild Dem Elitist like Obama thinks we should just quit, like every American should be free to quit a job that they start but find "inconvenient" or the last 10% to finish is unacceptably tougher than the 1st part of the surgery, plumbing installation, raising a kid from 0 to 18 years where 90% went easy.

"Let us finish the job, Sen McCain. Don't make us 4th ID walk away from the hard work and sacrifice nearing the finish. We don't want to run."

And what really should be discussed is Obama's claim to have near-Godlike judgement on a range of domestic, economic, and security topics and his facile approach of just throwing aside people close to him that are suddenly inconvenient and do 180 on policies that his mythmakers say was legendary judgement as a minor state legislator that don't look so well now.

matt - 'Finish the job' sounds great, but is semantically very close to 'bring the troops home.'

Actually, matt, they are semantic polar opposites in context.
One is 'We wish to finish the job before we stop', the other is "Others wish to drag us away from a hard job we sacrificed much for against our will just as we see success looming."

This goes with other areas that would be natural in any politician other than some little obscure Daley Machine flunky running for President - they build up a record in public veiw and cast defining, not "present!" votes while avoiding a good share of his Senate ones.
We see Obamessiahs touted judgment slowly getting punctured and deflating as he is forced to take stands and admit some of his positions were pretty naive, his judgment in selection of a circle of friends and associates rather odorific by comparison to other candidates.

Now he is trying to "refine" some of the few things he took a position on with his scanty record as too left-leaning for Primetime.

Nothing says his geostrategic position is vacuous more than his insistance that the placement of US forces, then their holding and influencing the very center of gravity of oil and the Islamic world, beating AQ who also recognized Iraq as the Central battlefield - be abandoned. So he can instead deploy back to a relatively resourceless and fight 20 million savage tribesmen in superb defensive positions so he can deal with the "real threat - 6 AQ guys hiding in fear of their lives.

**********************

James - And going on about the surge cannot draw attention to one of Obamas killer advantages; he was against the war from the start.

Either the public believes that Obama was a gifted military thinker who dissected the intelligence and found it wrong or you believe that Obama addressed his anti-war speech to old SDS memmbers and hard Lefties gathered because he was also a sympatico Lefty that opposed the war not from brains, but because he was a leftist Elite ideologue.
Same speech Obama gave was given by Vladimir Putin, Rosie O'Donnell, Fidel Castro, "Red Ken" Livingston, Hugo Chavez, and every gray-haired hippie riff-raff who failed to grow into adulthood in the last 40 years.

***************************

Remember, this is the great strategic thinker when he was forced to depart from the Teleprompter and the soaring speeches Team Axelrod wrote for him that said in debate he would attack AQ and have our troops "find bin Laden" in Pakistan without Pakistan's permission to enter sovereign territory while intensifying the fight in Afghanistan. Without ever considering that doing so would subsequently cut off 90% of the Afghan War effort supplies which must go through Pakistan, even start a war with a country that has a large professional military and WMD.
**************

And perhaps McCain needs a bit of mocking of Obama's cocky, inflated ego.
"Unlike FDR, JFK, Lincoln, or Reagan the Obamessiah is apparantly just too much more awesome and important to allow
his greatness to be confined by one of the largest Convention Halls in the Nation. No, only a huge outdoor stadium like Mile High Stadium allows his head the room it needs to swell."
"My opponent has already forecast that future generations will mark the moment of his beating a woman candidate as the moment when the sick began to be cured, the oceans rise slowed, and the Earth began to heal. In my case, I worry about if future generations will think most of the issues I bucked my own Party and was punished for were the right thing to do, and the inevitable comparisons between Jimmy Carter and myself as the only two Naval Academy graduates to run for President. I worry that future generations will know I was short..though I sailed over more ocean than Obamessiah will ever calm with a wave of his hand."

chris ford seems like the kind of guy who was able to blow himself when he was younger, and has spent the years since trying to recapture that "magic." So he has turned to wingnuttery out of desperation and inflexibility, like most of his ideological brethren.

Bravo! Long-winded indeed, but still with 0 original though!

Matt should know better. Does he support intervention in Sudan? Did he in Kosovo and Bosnia? If so, where did his humanitarian side go? I don't care if the surge directly benefits Americans or not. Our foreign policy is not just about our immediate interests, and as a liberal Matt should know better. Even if Al-Qaeda doesn't launch an attack from Iraq, there's a good chance they can initiate a long, bloody three-way civil war that will claim hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives. That alone is worth fighting to prevent. It's so sad to see the liberals of yesterday take a cynical maneuver towards the realists when the neocons have outplayed them on the humanitarian front. Bernard Henri Levy is not pleased...

Matt should know better. Does he support intervention in Sudan? Did he in Kosovo and Bosnia? If so, where did his humanitarian side go? I don't care if the surge directly benefits Americans or not. Our foreign policy is not just about our immediate interests, and as a liberal Matt should know better. Even if Al-Qaeda doesn't launch an attack from Iraq, there's a good chance they can initiate a long, bloody three-way civil war that will claim hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives. That alone is worth fighting to prevent. It's so sad to see the liberals of yesterday take a cynical maneuver towards the realists when the neocons have outplayed them on the humanitarian front. Bernard Henri Levy is not pleased...

Hey, look, you're all dodging the important question: is the Young Jesus raising Leni Reifenstahl from the dead to film his acceptance speech in Denver in front of the Masses?

Will there be a Torchlight Parade?

Ja!

"No matter who...is president."

Who's the voice-over artist on this?

Sounds like Dylan Baker from Happiness.

In regards to forward vs. backward looking, I think that the old adage "to project the near future, look at the near past".

Barack Obama misread the situation on the ground, and refused to endorse the the winning strategy. Does this gaurantee that he will miss again? No, but it does mean he has a higher probability of screwing it up than the guy who got it right.

Why would you choose the guy who got it wrong when you have the guy who got it right available as a choice?

cdm,

let's look at the near past; when it was only a choice, McCain supported wholeheartedly the war, and cast no doubt on it's strategy, management, troop levels etc.

Obama didn't.

So that's a pretty flawed argument. Even if the surge is working, McCain's fuckup is far bigger than Obama's.

It would be nice if there could be some more grown-ups writing in this comment section. Instead of actually using coherent and persuasive arguments, most of these juveniles prefer to just swear at each other. Perhaps a few courses in a local establishment of higher education so that you can have the right words in your vocabulary besides what's available in the local Junior High School.
The military operation in Iraq is old-news more most of the electorate at this point.

LOL. Perhaps a few of those same courses would help you employ proper sentence structure.

Really, it was your next sentence following such a smug dismissal of someone's argument based on vulgarity. Unreal.

If this post were about James, it would be called "Sitting on the Surge"

If was about you Gordon, it would be "Sitting in my own excrement".

I think this GL is as authentic as the Ferrell who has a cock in his ear.

Here's what would be a good joke if it were not so damn sad -- What do Americans do when they are too lazy to attempt to undertand the complexity of the issues while someone who is learned does and adapts his or her intellectual opinion on the matter in contradiction of theirs?

Call them a flip flopper of course. Apparently better than trying to understand the grey matters.

Please, McCain, please run on the Iraq war and occupation being a "good thing" that only you had the "wisdom" to support all along...because if you do so, start saying "President Obama."

Actually, you'd better get used to saying that regardless of what you do, John. It's already over.