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Rush and the American Right

06 Jul 2008 05:07 pm

Writing in response to Rush Limbaugh's remarks on our book, Reihan compared El Rushbo to Oprah Winfrey, and I think the Times profile of Limbaugh this weekend's Times Magazine confirms that insight. The piece paints Rush, accurately I think, as a fascinating and enormously talented entertainer, a guy who addresses the anxieties, aspirations and prejudices of put-upon, middle-class white men in much the same way Oprah speaks to the anxieties, aspirations and prejudices of angsty middle-aged white women. If Oprah is selling, in myriad ways, a particular (and particularly American) worldview - one defined by self-help and sisterhood and spirituality - then so is Rush: He's a voice for a self-reliant, up-by-your-bootstraps vision of American life, in which perpetual material abundance is available to anyone willing to work for it, and people who insist that there are limits to growth just don't understand what the U.S. of A is capable of.

The major difference between the two, of course, is that Rush's worldview has explicit political implications - a suspicion of regulators and taxmen and bureaucracies of any kind, a hatred of political correctness and sex- or race-based victimology - whereas the politics of Oprahland are (usually, though not always) implicit. In this sense, the absolute best parallel to Rush in the cultural firmament is probably Jon Stewart, whose Daily Show is to the weltanschauung of bright young East Coast liberals what the Rush Limbaugh Show is to the worldview of their SUV-driving, self-made uncles out in flyover country.

What does this mean for Rush's relationship to Republican politics? Just this: In the same way that every ambitious Democratic politician ought to be attuned to how Jon Stewart covers the news, so every right-of-center politico should keep an ear to the portion of the dial where Rush holds forth - because the Limbavian worldview, and the people he speaks for, represents an important (and valuable) slice of American conservatism, and indeed of America itself. But those same politicians should remember, as too many conservatives seem wont to forget, that Limbaugh is first and foremost an entertainer, and to mistake him for a strategist or policy wonk or political philosopher is to make a category error of epic proportions. Letting Rush define who is and is not a conservative, or what the national GOP can and cannot stand for, is the equivalent of the Democratic Party inviting the writers of the Daily Show to hammer out their party's platform - or the Roman Catholic Church turning the next edition of the Catechism over to Oprah.

Comments (77)

a hatred of political correctness and sex- or race-based victimology

While, of course, enthusiastically taking part in the other victimology, the constant conservative whine against exclusion, bias, marginalization, and the fact that straight white Christian men just can't catch a break in today's America. And that victimology is something that I've still yet to hear you condemn. I'd love to hear you talk about it.

"He's a voice for a self-reliant, up-by-your-bootstraps vision of American life, in which perpetual material abundance is available to anyone willing to work for it, and people who insist that there are limits to growth just don't understand what the U.S. of A is capable of."

Too many words. He's an asshole. He's a voice for assholes.

"But those same politicians should remember, as too many conservatives seem wont to forget, that Limbaugh is first and foremost an entertainer, and to mistake him for a strategist or policy wonk or political philosopher is to make a category error of epic proportions."

No, it's not. It's a sign of the degeneration of the GOP and American conservatism in general that Limbaugh is, quite genuinely, the "intellectual" leader of both. Who else would you say fills that position?

"Letting Rush define who is and is not a conservative, or what the national GOP can and cannot stand for, is the equivalent of the Democratic Party inviting the writers of the Daily Show to hammer out their party's platform"

I suspect they would do a very good job. And exactly how does the Repiglican platform differ from the "principles" of Limbaugh? It doesn't, and it won't this year, either.

Freddie writes: "While, of course, enthusiastically taking part in the other victimology, the constant conservative whine against exclusion, bias, marginalization, and the fact that straight white Christian men just can't catch a break in today's America. And that victimology is something that I've still yet to hear you condemn. I'd love to hear you talk about it."

He could do it while also talking about the demise of conservative hero and all-around shitbag Jesse Helms. But most likely he won't talk about either one.

Letting Rush define who is and is not a conservative, or what the national GOP can and cannot stand for, is the equivalent of the Democratic Party inviting the writers of the Daily Show to hammer out their party's platform - or the Roman Catholic Church turning the next edition of the Catechism over to Oprah.


Except when you write "is the equivalent," it's not really the equivalent. Has there been any evidence, whatsoever, that the Daily Show writers want to hammer out their party's platform? Or Oprah doing the same for Catholics? That's some pretty weak thinking there, even for a blog post, even at this blog.

Also, the Daily Show writers (and I'll guess O), unlike Rush, don't march lockstep with any particular worldview. They lean liberal, but are able to make fun of the left. But that's because they write satire. It's what they do. Rush does something different. Something that requires marching lockstep with a particular ideology.

Also, Rush is a race-baiting asshole. I'll find some examples if you really need them (you can google too), but pretending otherwise reflects ultra-wicked poorly on you.

I'd like to second ed's thoughts. I'm sure Democratic politicians probably are aware of what TDS says about them, but TDS isn't into the business of dictating or trying to influence actual policies, other than by perhaps showing that particular polices or stances are stupid/ill-informed/etc (and that goes for both parties).

Rush, however, actually has the ability and the desire to shift actual Republican policies and mistaking him for "just an entertainer" underestimates his influence.

And oh yeah...he's a race baiting and sexists asshole.

MoeLarry sez: "It's a sign of the degeneration of the GOP and American conservatism in general that Limbaugh is, quite genuinely, the "intellectual" leader of both.Who else would you say fills that position?"

Me: George Will and the late WFB, among more public intellectuals, and we can throw in a Kristol for the neocons. Hell, even Newt Gingrich. There are plenty of writers and thinkers of the non-ententainment (read: not talk show host) variety.

And not to kiss the blog's arse, but Ross and Reihan will likely vie for that spot in the future.

MoeLarry sez: "It's a sign of the degeneration of the GOP and American conservatism in general that Limbaugh is, quite genuinely, the "intellectual" leader of both.Who else would you say fills that position?"

Me: George Will and the late WFB, among more public intellectuals, and we can throw in a Kristol for the neocons. Hell, even Newt Gingrich. There are plenty of writers and thinkers of the non-entertainment (read: not talk show host) variety.

And not to kiss the blogger's arse, but Ross and Reihan will likely vie for that spot in the future.

That's quite a straw man, freddie.

Who are the white males arguing this? Of course, there are millions and I'm sure you'll point out a few. But pointing out the stupidity of liberal social policy isn't victimology, it's maturity.

Ferrell quotes and replies (twice): "MoeLarry sez: "It's a sign of the degeneration of the GOP and American conservatism in general that Limbaugh is, quite genuinely, the "intellectual" leader of both.Who else would you say fills that position?"

Me: George Will and the late WFB, among more public intellectuals, and we can throw in a Kristol for the neocons. Hell, even Newt Gingrich. There are plenty of writers and thinkers of the non-entertainment (read: not talk show host) variety.

And not to kiss the blogger's arse, but Ross and Reihan will likely vie for that spot in the future."

Great, now a dead guy is filling the GOP leadership hole! Says a lot about the state of the party.

In reality, Buckley wasn't a force of any sort for years, and Will's just a bloodless lump of nothing who is held in little regard by redmeat conservatives. Pat Buchanan still has more cachet with those people than Will does.

Bloody Billy Kristol is consistently wrong about everything, so if he's your idea of an intellectual leader have at it.

And your ass-kissing of Ross has been duly noted. Holy lickspittle, Batman! Sales of the book are plummeting faster than the Dow Jones average. Some leadership!

Rush is the public face of conservatism, chuckles. Deal with it.

"Letting Rush define who is and is not a conservative, or what the national GOP can and cannot stand for, is the equivalent of the Democratic Party inviting the writers of the Daily Show to hammer out their party's platform - or the Roman Catholic Church turning the next edition of the Catechism over to Oprah."

Yes, how dare Rush worry about the direction intellectuals are taking the conservative movement. Serious discussion of politics should be strictly contained to Harvard-educated yuppies who hobnob with David Brooks and whose greatest disappointment in life was the girl who teased him, romantically, his freshman year in college.

Serious discussions need serious people. We must be careful to keep out the riff-raff.

What's the difference, ultimately between David Brooks and Rush Limbaugh? I ain't seeing one.

The piece paints Rush, accurately I think, as a fascinating and enormously talented entertainer, a guy who addresses the anxieties, aspirations and prejudices of put-upon, middle-class white men in much the same way Oprah speaks to the anxieties, aspirations and prejudices of angsty middle-aged white women.

I.e. for put-upon middle-class white men, Oprah's benign middlebrow schmaltz = a very talented 12-year old lying, smearing, and insulting anything that isn't a Republican. The GOP's new slogan: 'African-Americans putt this way, liberals putt that way, and Republican white men like to smash the putter over your head when you aren't looking, and then complain about treated unfair.'

"Who are the white males arguing this? Of course, there are millions and I'm sure you'll point out a few. But pointing out the stupidity of liberal social policy isn't victimology, it's maturity.

Posted by Little Murray SParkles | July 6, 2008 7:22 PM"

Oh come on. The whole point of the stupid "outrage of the day" style used by Rush and FoxNews is to play to white straight Christian males' sense of victimhood. From making up a "War on Christmas" to complaining that Muslims and Mexicans are taking over our culture to complaining that men can longer act like men, white straight conservative Christian men are have the most pandered-to sense of faux victimology in the US.

Your comparison of Limbaugh to Jon Stewart is pretty astute. I find it immensely disturbing - and I'm sure that in the afterlife one will be stewed for all eternity in cauldron full of boiling Snapple while the other enjoys bagels baked by angels - but it works.

And your ass-kissing of Ross has been duly noted. Holy lickspittle, Batman! Sales of the book are plummeting faster than the Dow Jones average. Some leadership!

Don't ever change, Moe. Seriously.

I will say that if Ross and Reihan actually were the intellectual leaders of the conservative movement, it would be a significant improvement. But that's faint praise.

"Yes, how dare Rush worry about the direction intellectuals are taking the conservative movement. Serious discussion of politics should be strictly contained to Harvard-educated yuppies who hobnob with David Brooks and whose greatest disappointment in life was the girl who teased him, romantically, his freshman year in college.

Serious discussions need serious people. We must be careful to keep out the riff-raff."

Yes, and Rush is oh so serious, thats why he plays "Obama the Magic Negroe" and does Amos-n-Andy like impersonations of Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. And Operation Chaos was a serious examiniation of party politics, not some asinine immature prank (the fact that so many people bought into it should give everyone pause). I agree that serious issues need serious people, but Rush ain't it. I think that we can gauge a intellectual's seriousness with their willingness to engage in a debate. When was the last time Rush ever interviewed someone that disagreed with him?

Limbaugh's closest analog is Andy Kaufman. While Limbaugh could in actuality be a crazed science-rejecting, conspiracy-theorist, racist, misogynist, champion of blue collar, white, superstitious heterosexuals, I rather doubt it. The idiocy required to utter some of the crap spewed forth from his show and writings don't jibe well with his admittedly impressive business acumen.

All one has to do is look at his various claims about environmental regulation- they are quite literally a template filled in to match whatever perceived threat to industry is currently worrying investors- you can find near word-for-word claims regarding the alleged fraudulent science and catastrophic costs relating to CFCs and GHGs.

The rubes that take what he says seriously have very little in common with watchers of The Daily Show or Oprah- at the very least, they realize that they are an audience to something that is first and foremost entertainment, not Truth.

You can probably find the same generic rationalizations on Limbaugh as you can with Scientologists on Thetans.

'See it's all really the same, you're just biased because you were made to read the Bible and believe in God and Jesus rather than Dianetics and the Thetan inside you.'

The sad truth about Limbaugh is that for all of his money and influence, all he has done is drag the people who listen to him down a completely worthless and avoidable hole. The article is pretty hysterical too--sort of like a dumb reject from the provinces read a book once and found some people who got through half of the same book.

Jon writes: "While Limbaugh could in actuality be a crazed science-rejecting, conspiracy-theorist, racist, misogynist, champion of blue collar, white, superstitious heterosexuals, I rather doubt it. The idiocy required to utter some of the crap spewed forth from his show and writings don't jibe well with his admittedly impressive business acumen."

The two things have nothing to do with each other. Henry Ford was an incredible businessman. He was also a fruitloop who distributed "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion." Rush seems like he really is the asshole he presents himself as. There's no shortage of great businessmen who are complete scumbags.


I wanted to add one more thing. I love it how Ross has to kiss Limbaugh's ass for a majority of this post only to offer a really tepid critique at the end. Talk about a plan for Grand New Party.

MLP says: "I love it how Ross has to kiss Limbaugh's ass for a majority of this post only to offer a really tepid critique at the end. Talk about a plan for Grand New Party."

I wonder how Ross and Michael Savage would get along.

These comments are hilarious - Nearly every critique of Rush centers around name-calling and vapid comebacks. Face it: The guy has been the most influential, successful personality in talk radio over the past 20 years and liberals have no clue how to deal with it. They've been trying for many years, only to fail miserably. The guy makes $40 million a year and regularly secures 14 million listeners each week and the best you can do is call him an ***hole? I wouldn't exactly call that a convincing argument against the guy !! He's laughing all the way to the bank while the nattering naybobs waste their time whining on an internet board LOL

MoeLarryAndJesus:

There's no shortage of great businessmen who are complete scumbags.

Sure. But the question isn't how much of a douche he is, but how much he believes his own schtick.

Henry Ford was an incredible businessman. He was also a fruitloop who distributed "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion."

So do a lot of people who know it isn't real because it serves their agenda. That is precisely my point.

Will writes: "The guy makes $40 million a year and regularly secures 14 million listeners each week and the best you can do is call him an ***hole? I wouldn't exactly call that a convincing argument against the guy !! He's laughing all the way to the bank while the nattering naybobs waste their time whining on an internet board LOL"

You spelled nabobs wrong, asshole.

And if making a lot of money is the standard, then George Soros, who could buy and sell Limbaugh 10 times over, should be your new hero.

But you prefer that asshole Rush. Unlike his ex-wives.

Jon writes: "But the question isn't how much of a douche he is, but how much he believes his own schtick."

You have no evidence whatsoever that Rush isn't a true believer.

"That is precisely my point."

It wasn't worth making. If Rush has spent his life just pretending to be an ignorant asshole that makes him even worse.

Hey Moe - there's nothing wrong with making a lot of money - it's called capitalism. Live it, learn it, love it. The insults are very revealing - it's the sign of a weak mind. Surely, you can do better than that? Right, Shemp?

Will replies: "Hey Moe - there's nothing wrong with making a lot of money - it's called capitalism. Live it, learn it, love it. The insults are very revealing - it's the sign of a weak mind. Surely, you can do better than that? Right, Shemp?"

I never said there was anything wrong with making a lot of money, you fucking moron. Read what I wrote one more time.

And if resorting to insults is the sign of a weak mind, what does that say about Rush, who insults people constantly?

Of course it's not an insult to say Rush is an asshole, or that you're a fucking moron. It's just accurate reporting.

At least you admit you have a weak mind - I'm glad that's settled. Obviously you are not a very learned person. You do lack intellectual fortitude. That's quite obvious. Does that bother you that Rush points out the hypocrisy of the Left? Awww, he hurt your feelings, didn't he, Curly? You wouldn't know accurate reporting if it jumped up and bit you on the ass. I bet you read the NY Times daily? lol

Will, let me know when you finally finish "Goodnight, Moon."

I like this bit from you: "Obviously you are not a very learned person. You do lack intellectual fortitude. That's quite obvious."

If Rush shat in your mouth you wouldn't brush your tooth for a month. He's the natural hero of morons like you.

Can you explain the word, 'shat?' I don't see that in the dictionary....LOL !! Obviously, your meds have worn off, so I'll let you go for the evening. Enjoy your life whining and complaining about Rush - I'm sure he'll have another cigar just for you.

Shat is the past tense of shit, Will. And Rush only smokes cigars when he's not sucking underage cock in the Dominican Republic.

There's a reason his wives all left him.

The guy has been the most influential, successful personality in talk radio over the past 20 years and liberals have no clue how to deal with it.

Kind of like Father Coughlin was in his time. Which makes me thankful that Rush wasn't around in the 30's (his only redeeming quality, come to think of it).

Rush needs to be arrested for child rape and pandering. Then he needs to be put away and go the way of Father Goeghan. The only story worth pursuing about the guy is the one about his sex tourism trips to the Caribbean. Everything else just makes this twisted monster out to be a human being worth thinking about. He isn't. He is human garbage and the sooner he is in the bin, the better.

On that brilliant note, I'll leave you be. You need to temper that pent-up anger and do something positive with yourself. Find a girlfriend, join a club, or take up some civic duty, like cleaning Rush's toilets. I heard he has an opening for a new servants on his his estate. Rush needs YOU, Moe. Nyuk, nyuk, nyuk.

The angry, hateful Lefties are coming out in droves. This is why Rush has been so successful, he motivates the conservatives and irritates the heck out of liberals. It's a riot !! He's laughing all the way to the bank.

How many times will Will say goodbye before he actually leaves?

I'm guessing he went up to bed but his mom was still busy with his latest "uncle," so he has to stay in the basement until she's "done."

Even as someone who doesn't like the Limbaugh Republican platform, I must admit I enjoy listening to him. He's a master of the radio platform.

Limbaugh is entertaining. I'll concede that. But I agree with Ross that anyone who mistakes him for a serious thinker is wrong. He's clearly got power and listeners, but the latter is clearly diminishing. He couldn't even keep John McCain from getting the GOP nomination this year--in 2000, he was much more effective at keeping that from happening (though, to be sure, that had much more to do with Rove's smears than anything else). And his personal life has put many of the conservatives I know off him.

I think that Limbaugh himself is on the decline, but the style he built is only becoming more popular among the right. Sadly.

"The piece paints Rush, accurately I think, as a fascinating and enormously talented entertainer, a guy who addresses the anxieties, aspirations and prejudices of put-upon, middle-class white men in much the same way Oprah speaks to the anxieties, aspirations and prejudices of angsty middle-aged white women.''

This is satire, right?

LaFollette Progressive wrote:
"I will say that if Ross and Reihan actually were the intellectual leaders of the conservative movement, it would be a significant improvement. But that's faint praise."

Faint praise? Ross and Reihan deserve more than that. I disagree with them vociferously, but I'm glad that they act like adults more often than not.

Can't really say that about the most of the folks in the conservative movement...

Moe, Larry and Curly seem quite enamored with sex acts and deviant relationships - just goes to show what is on his mind. It's probably rampant throughout his life, also. Sad case. His standard rebuttal is to call someone a name or infer that they engage in some sort of deviant relationship. It's indicative of his entire thought process, or lack thereof.

It wasn't worth making. If Rush has spent his life just pretending to be an ignorant asshole that makes him even worse.

It has everything to do with who his nearest analog would be. Jon Stewart's politics may be somewhat different than presented on TDS, and his host persona is a bit different than his actual personality, but the underlying beliefs that go into both are basically the same. I do not for one second believe that the same holds true for Limbaugh. I think his act is an act, and therefore he is better compared to Kaufman than Stewart or Oprah.

You can disagree all you want about the sincerity of his actions, but to say the point isn't worth making ignores the thrust of Ross's post and my response to it.

This is satire, right?

You'd think so, wouldn't you. I can't tell you how many times I've wondered that. I know better now...

Nobody, it seems, has had it more difficult than a bunch of whinny white males who have had it their way for more than 2,000 years. Poor crybabies!

The only reason Limbaugh is rich and successful is that retards, like Will, listen to, and hang on, every word like gospel.

Oprah?

Please, Ross. Aside from their huge success, Oprah and rush have almost nothing in common.

While I enjoy your views on movies, the more I read you, the more and more I hope that you have nothing to do with the future of the GOP.

You once said that's what you would love to do. Please do it and take your dream of "limited-but-active government" with you to Imaginationland. Take Reihan, Tucker Carlson and the David's Frum and Brooks with you.

complaining that men can longer act like men

Do you have any idea what the penalties are for clubbing a woman over the head and then dragging her off to your cave are these days?

Will -

The only reason why Rush would take a fistfull of someone elses Viagra to the Child Sex Capital of the Western Hemisphere on a regular basis is because he is engaging in prostitution with underage hookers.

Until he comes out and specifically denies it, I can only assume that Rush is a pedophile kiddie rapist.

Like Conservative Icon Peggy Noonan sez, "It would be irresponsible NOT to speculate."

Rush Limbaugh's "philosophy," (or what passes for it) can be described in two words: No Dissent.

No dissent from orthodoxy or the catechism of the "correct" view of Conservatism.
One of the biggest myths of modern politics is that it is "the left" that has a monopoly on political correctness.

I am no conservative, but I can at least respect and have reasonable dialogue with conservatives like William F. Buckley, George Will, David Brooks, and Andrew Sullivan.

Limbaugh is a multi-millionaire who feigns victimhood at the hand of "the elites."
Limbaugh and his wannabees cater to the lowest common-denominator of our society.

Ross, I don't agree with you on much, but I could shake your hand and buy you a beer for speaking truth to power on this one.

"It's a sign of the degeneration of the GOP and American conservatism in general that Limbaugh is, quite genuinely, the "intellectual" leader of both."

No he's not. I rarely hear about Limbaugh except when I go online. Besides that I'm not sure the Republicans or conservatives ever had one single leader, not even Buckley.

More plausible "intellectual leaders" in conservativism

Fred Barnes
John Bolton
Maggie Gallagher
David Horowitz
Laura Ingraham
Charles Krauthammer
Bill Kristol
R. Albert Mohler, Jr.
Thomas Sowell

More plausible GOP leaders

Sheldon Adelson - Billionaire backer of GOP groups.
Haley Barbour
John McCain
Mitch McConnell
Rupert Murdoch
Rick Perry

I should state that I picked names based on who struck me as significant, not so much on who I agree with or respect.

Laura Ingraham?

Thomas, have you been drinking this early?

Ross,

We all know who the examplar, standard bearer of conservative values is, it's the Late Sen. Helms. Your sides reaction to his passing is the most telling thing I've seen from conservatives in a while. The last couple of years, (partly b/c I don't think Bush is a Helms, Thurman, Rush, Hewitt, Hannity republic on race issues)the conservatives have been trying to pretend to retire their recent racist idiologies ("state's rights").

Rush is the intellectual base of the conservative or republican movement. He is too careful about his racist attitudes. Careful in the sense that he uses an "official african american, with slave blood" to blast obama in both the queens English, then "ebonics" so that other "authentic slave blood African Americans" can understand including Michelle. See this is considered satire and I have to admit that as I listen to it on the way to meetings, I have a hard time getting mad. Honestly it really funny. But even in my good sense of humor, I know what he is doing. But, I can laugh because, I no longer see these people as a threat to progress and equality in this country. They are side shows, they are loosing the war and don't even recognize it. NOW that's funny. LOL

Rush is all about himself. Limbaugh an intellectual? Seriously? An intellectual will weigh both sides. Limbaugh doesn't do that. Also, if he was so powerful, how come he couldn't prevent McCain from getting the Republican nomination? Operation Chaos? Is it a bad thing that the Democrats registered a ton of new voters? Are there really any large numbers of Hillary voters that will vote for McCain this Novemeber? No. The only Hillary voters that will vote for McCain this November where Republicans(of Operation Chaos) and Democrats in places like KY and WW(that are registered as Democrats and vote for local Democrats but rarely vote for them for Federal office).

After Rush swallows a pound of Oxycontin and a few Viagra (and who knows what other prescription pills he favors,) his chihuahua probably cowers in the closet as Limbaugh lurches down the hallway in a Bone-ified (literally) stupor.

And this is the fellow from whom legions right-wingers take their queue? I agree with Douthat to an extent, but Douthat offers a reasonable critique where a more simple and accurate critique is to call Limbaugh out for what he is: A shameless partisan hack. An a-hole....a liar...and a drug addict. He's pathetic, and his devoted listeners aren't much better should be ashamed for listening to this blowhard.

Rush admits absolute partisan bias, and that despite hosting a political show, his highest priority is making profit for himself.

But if he was receiving suggestions from the White House to manipulate public opinion, that's illegal.

According to Scott McClellan, however, a massive White House operation under the guidance of Karl Rove foutinely fed "packets" of information to conservative talk radio personalities.

Find out more and SPEAK OUT here: http://www.opednews.com/articles/Stand-Up-Against-Rush---40-by-Gustav-Wynn-080704-210.html

I see Oprah as the left-wing Rush Limbaugh. During the 1980s and early 1990s, Oprah popularized and revolution the tabloid talk show genre which was pioneered by Donahue, and turned it into a huge industry. According to the book FREAKS TALK BACK by Yale sociologist Joshua Gamson, this trashy talk show trend of the 1980s and 90s did more to make gays mainstream and socially acceptable than any other development of the 20th century; Oprah largely abandoned her trashy roots in 1995 and spent the next 13 years secularizing spirituality and promoting literature that encourages sympathy for oppressed groups.

Rush Limbaugh has been doing the same thing but in the opposite political direction. He popularized and revolutionized right-wing talk shows and turned them into a giant industry. He has spent years preaching disdain for the culture of victimization (calling extreme feminists feminazis) and advocating traditional values.

Like Oprah, Rush speaks to a specific gender and like Oprah he struggles with his weight, makes lots of money and has had a huge impact.

But how will the sheeple know what to think?

But how will the sheeple know what to think?

Will, to answer your question, Rush is an habitual liar and demagogue. He is also a coward who refuses to have a fair debate. And then there is the racist and sexism thing.

Come to think of it, he is the intellectual and philosophical leader of modern American conservatism.

"Thomas, have you been drinking this early?" MLAJ

TR: I don't drink alcohol ever. She did go to Dartmouth and has her own TV show. Even Bill O'Reilly would be more plausible as an "intellectual leader" of the US Right. (Even if he's politically eccentric)

Thomas R replies: "She did go to Dartmouth and has her own TV show."

And Dumbya Bush has two Ivy League degrees and he's a hopeless idiot. Color me unimpressed. Ingraham is a substanceless harpy.

"Even Bill O'Reilly would be more plausible as an "intellectual leader" of the US Right."

It's a pitiful bunch.

As an outsider (European) I never understood this power of men like Limbaugh and Kristol have in the American right. I mean look at UK, they have intelligent conservatives (Financial Times, the Economist, etc.).

But American conservative movement has for a long time been anti-intellectual...well stupid basically. Why is that? Are books bad? Knowledge of foreign languages? Independent thinking? Science?

I mean Europe has its own share of clowns (old left, or parts of it, Italy's Berlusconi - also anti-intellectual), but it the US they took over the GOP. But if you look at the sorry state of quality media in the US, or its small share of the whole media and the poor knowledge of the electorate, this is not surprising.

But not wanting to sound like a "whining European" (credits to Rush), I think we will follow that sorry path soon.

I think you're being unfair Jacob, but it's true many of the most visible elements of the American conservative movement veer toward "Right-wing populism." (Europe has Right-wing populists too) So they're trying to gain the support of less educated voters by positioning themselves against a real or imaginary "cultural elite."

From what I can tell the Claremont Institute, The Federalist Society, Policy Review, and the Wall Street Journal seem to get the more intellectual end of things. I didn't mention some of their bigger names because they're obscure to most people. In addition to that "The Economist" is really more libertarian or neo-liberal, it's not conservative even in the old British sense.

All right, credit to Thomas R. Yes, The Economist is mayby more libertarian than conservative (even liberal, since this has a different meaning in Europe). But I would argue that most Economist readers in the UK vote for...Conservative Party ;)

Your examples may be right, but besides WSJ, they are not visible. The conservative tone is done by these radio talk-hosts. And they are very anti-intellectual. We have some of these politicians (specially Berlusconi), but the right wing agenda is not made by anti-intellectuals. We had anti-imigration Haider, Le Pen and others, but they have been in retreat

Jacob asks: "But American conservative movement has for a long time been anti-intellectual...well stupid basically. Why is that? Are books bad? Knowledge of foreign languages? Independent thinking? Science?"

We're stuck with tens of millions of barely-educated fundamentalist wackjobs, Jacob, and they've been catered to by the Republican Party for over 30 years. Europe has no comparable group of nitwits.

Moe,

Uh, Europe has quite a few fundamentalist wackjobs too. The difference is that many of them happen to be Muslim. Like the imam in England who said that women who wear tight clothing deserved to be raped.

Actually to be honest there are plenty of Christian fundamentalist wackjobs in Europe too. Men like Falwell and Robertson are nasty and hateful people but at least we didn't elect them to high office, the same way the Ulster Protestant electorate did with Ian Paisley.

Well yes, but even I'll have to agree Christian fundamentalism is pretty rare in Europe. Northern Ireland is something of a unique situation. There are a few pockets of the Netherlands, yes I do mean the Netherlands, that have Fundamentalists too but on the whole it's much more fringe in the rest of Europe. In Europe the remaining religious nations are pretty much always Eastern Orthodox or Catholic and neither religion can be Fundamentalist in the traditional sense. (As in based in the literal interpretation of a sacred book) The Swiss are the only somewhat Protestant nation to still have above average, for Europe, rates of belief in God and religion.

Anyway it doesn't necessarily follow that religious fundamentalists are dumb or anti-intellectual. In Sudan the Islamic Fundamentalists were among the best educated element of society. (And I mean they were the ones most likely to have high-powered degrees from Oxford or the Sorbonne) Francis Schaeffer, granted not quite a Fundamentalist, was highly educated. In many cases academics seem more attracted than average people to totalitarian or "pure" ideologies. Hence in Weimar Germany colleges were sometimes disproportionately Communist, Nazi, or both. In Sudan Communists and Islamists vied for the University vote. Libertarianism is also comparatively "pure", as in its dealing with an untested ideal, and also seems more popular with intellectuals than many populist forms of conservatism.

Hector replies: "Uh, Europe has quite a few fundamentalist wackjobs too. The difference is that many of them happen to be Muslim."

Yeah, and compared to our fundamentalist wackjobs they're relatively few in number and they're politically powerless.

"Actually to be honest there are plenty of Christian fundamentalist wackjobs in Europe too. Men like Falwell and Robertson are nasty and hateful people but at least we didn't elect them to high office, the same way the Ulster Protestant electorate did with Ian Paisley."

Do the names Inhofe or Cornyn or DeLay ring a bell with you, Hector? Paisley's a horse of a different color, and that color is orange.

Falwell and Robertson were regularly consulted about Supreme Court picks. Don't downplay their influence.

Moe,

True, the Islamist clerics are weaker than DeLay and company. But their power and influence is growing, particularly in England. You do realize that the guy who compared women dressed in tight clothing to 'uncovered meat' was the _most senior Muslim cleric_ in the country (apologies, it was in Australia, not England).

I probably am downplaying their influence. I'm not a Republican so I don't follow the stupidities on the Republican side of the aisle in detail, nor am I up on all the intricacies of Senate politics. Fallwell and Robertson are bad but Ian Paisley is just as bad.

TR,

Yes, that's true. I was more making the point that Europe does have fundamentalist politicians as noxious as Fallwell, not that they're particularly common. It's true that the remaining highly religious nations in Europe (like Poland, Portugal, Ireland and Greece) are all Catholic or Orthodox. Of course those can't be 'fundamentalist'.

You're also right that educated people tend to be fond of extreme ideologies. (I fall victim to this temptation much too often myself). The reason is probably that Rousseau was closer to the truth (in this regard) than Kant: morality is ultimately a thing of the intuition, not the reason, and when we rely on our reason to the exclusion of our intuition it can easily lead us astray into justifying some bad things.

I think Paisley falls closer to Helms than any fundamentalist. It's pure hatred for Catholics as a presence on his/their 'territory', but even hatred is outweighed by his lust for power - hence sharing government with Martin McGuiness, who served in the IRA. They got on so well they became known as the 'chuckle brothers'

Paisley was a hateful fuck but he's a broken dick now. And what ultimately broke him was really the emergence of the Irish Republic as an economic force. Ulster's populace wanted to share in the bounty - including the Orangemen, who weren't doing too well on their own.

I would still like to see Ireland united in my lifetime, but it's possible to be patient now that it seems inevitable. Ulster was never a fair partner in the UK, and I think even most Ulster Protestants are aware of that now.

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